As I get old, I find myself gaining a deep and profound contempt for humans. Myself included. Why does God love us? Please be very clear.

Thank you, Initial.

For your enjoyment:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/the-most-beautiful-small-town-in-every-state/ss-AAFfvwH?ocid=spartandhp

Many Mormons, and ex-Mormons don't understand the concept of unconditional love. Mormons are taught, and I suppose you agree with this, that love must be earned. You believe that love must be deserved, and that humans can be pretty awful, and undeserving of love, right? Instead, I think God loves us as children or pets.

I love my children and grandchildren unconditionally, even when they poop their diapers or are sick and contagious. I love them in whatever stage of life or whatever disposition they are in--the tantrums of the Terrible Two's--the eye-rolling disrespect of the teen-ager--and I cherish every word, every smile, every display of individuality.

I love them because they are who they are, in the moment.

Religious people say that God knows our heart, our mind, our motives. Well, in a way, we know our children's heart. For example, we know he wants that piece of candy, and we know he doesn't mean it when he says, "I hate you," when we won't give it to him.

I love my grandchildren because they are imperfect. In my eyes, they are perfect, for who they are, know what I mean? If they were perfect, they would be someone else, and not my special Dear Ones.

Another simplified example is my daughter's love for her cat. The darling fuzzy kitty goes out at night and kills cute little mice, which horrifies my daughter, and makes her cry for the dead mice. But she loves her kitty, because it is what it is, a "perfect" horrible cat.

"Shut up! Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that tell you about God? ... You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you."- Fight Club

I don't know how people can ignore so much reality right in front of us and think a god is loving. Even reading the 10 commandments makes me question his selfish motives.

dagny Wrote:
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> I don't know how people can ignore so much reality
> right in front of us and think a god is loving.
> Even reading the 10 commandments makes me question
> his selfish motives.


Thank you dagny.... the voice of reason once again.

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dagny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know how people can ignore so much
> reality
> > right in front of us and think a god is loving.
> > Even reading the 10 commandments makes me
> question
> > his selfish motives.
>
>
> Thank you dagny.... the voice of reason once
> again.

Yes, because nothing is more selfish than prohibiting murder, theft, breaking up your neighbor's marriage, and lying. Or allowing people at least one day a week off, making sure your parents are looked after etc.

But if you prefer you could run after those gods your neighbors worship who demand mass sacrifice of children on a regular basis.

> But if you prefer you could run after those gods
> your neighbors worship who demand mass sacrifice
> of children on a regular basis.

Yes! Because that happens all the time now.

Imagine where the United States (and Canada!) would be if we didn't have the prohibition against child sacrifice? We'd be like Sweden, Japan, and other atheistic societies in which you have to sacrifice your children to Baal every time you renew your driver's license!

Snort!

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Snort!

I hope that snort remark was about how Sweden and Japan are "atheist". Not even close, since both of them have a state religion (more than one in the case of Japan) unlike the USA which has none according to its constitution.

I would suspect that when LW referred to an "atheistic society" that she was well aware that these countries do have state religions. Two different things.

MY Money all says in God we Trust. Doesn't speak for me and I suspect for many in this country.

I also don't participate as this country's society rarely does in National Fruitcake Toss Day on January 3. Congress will approve almost anything. No? And yes.

Well, Anon & Anon, a state religion does not a theistic nation make.

Sweden? A 2016 Gallup Poll, which is substantiated by many other studies, finds that 18% of Swedes report themselves as atheists and 55% opt for non-religious. That would put the total near three-quarters. Another poll finds that 10% of Swedes think religion "important" and the same number trust "any religious leader." So if you want to describe Swedes as believers, you should expect some quizzical responses.

As for Japan, you are wrong to say there is a state religion. That hasn't been true since 1945, when the Occupation forces imposed a new law banning state affiliation with Shinto. The prohibition of state religion was then enshrined in the constitution. As for the other Japanese religions to which you aver, which are they? And can you show me where in the Constitution or other law the state status is defined? Because it ain't so.

Use your regular board name if you want to discuss this. Your reply was cowardly and obviously an emotional response.

Did you miss the 4 commandments that actually support what I said about the petty jealous nature of the Judeo-Christian god? BTW, they are at the top of the list.

dagny Wrote:
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> Your reply was cowardly and obviously an
> emotional response.

And yours was unemotional. Okay, got it. I must remember that the next time someone disagrees with me, then I can accuse them of being "cowardly" for holding a different point of view than mine.

No, the cowardly comment was intended for the moniker which has only been used starting yesterday.

So are you saying that if the supposed God of the OT had not given you the ten commandments, that you would have no reason not to murder, lie, cheat and steal your neighbor's spouse? I would hate to think then that there are many like you in the world.

Goodness is something that comes from within and is its own reward. Therefore no commandments are necessary and people who NEED commandments in this day and age scare the hell out of me.

Funny how there are plenty of Judeo-Christians lying, killing and sleeping around just like everywhere else. It's almost like they don't follow the commandments! It doesn't sound like God gets a high score for being effective either.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> So are you saying that if the supposed God of the
> OT had not given you the ten commandments, that
> you would have no reason not to murder, lie, cheat
> and steal your neighbor's spouse? I would hate to
> think then that there are many like you in the
> world.
>
> Goodness is something that comes from within and
> is its own reward. Therefore no commandments are
> necessary and people who NEED commandments in this
> day and age scare the hell out of me.

As Morrissey once wrote:

"If you think peace is the common goal/that goes to show how little you know"

Not everyone out there is a nice person like you.

Unfortunately we do need some laws. When some people think that there is no consequence to their actions, they will go off and do these things. Therefore we need laws about stealing, murder etc for all people. Whether they come from God or not (supposedly) is unimportant - if people think they can't get away with it, then they won't do it.

In many disaster zones or rioting areas, people do these things because they think nothing will happen to them. Very few criminals commit crime to go to prison (one or two do, but it's rare).

And yes, some supposed Christians do go and do these things. Mostly because like the secular criminals they can get away with it. Some think God told them to, but that's an issue for mental health services.

My! We love to be contrarian.

The subject is regarding the Ten Commandments. The Laws of the Land and their necessity is another ball of, well, I'll stick with "wax" but it's not the word I wanted to use.

Ball of yarn. That's what D&D meant: ball of yarn.

Anon & Anon,

You seem suspiciously like one of those people who thinks that a strong state is the key to social stability and morality. Is that so?

Do you, as indicate in your posts, think that humanity is condemned by a lack of religion that either is run by, or cooperates closely with, the state?

Damn Straight!

Anyone who thinks god loves them knows NOTHING about love. They need to get a dog and find out what it is all about.

Or a cat...of course most cats are secretly evil and have a double personality, but mine loves me unconditionally and would also never hurt me. Animals can be nicer than god. Says it all.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Anyone who thinks god loves them knows NOTHING
> about love. They need to get a dog and find out
> what it is all about.

I've had a dog. I loved him to bits. However, I think his love for me was more to do with what I fed him than anything else. :)

He often tested boundaries as well, like trying to sleep on my bed occasionally when I was in it. (He was a big dog, and it was a small bed, so it wasn't a good idea.)

Dogs are great, but they aren't people. For example, it is common for dogs to eat their owners when they have died at home. It's kinda gross but it happens. Most humans wouldn't do that.

My point regarding this, and, life in general, is that your ability to love is more important than who you love. Qualifying love with regard to who the recipient is only serves bigots.

And, we have no control over who loves us back which makes it all the more meaninguful when it happens.

Oddly, loving others is our greatest gift to ourselves.



Clearly the Gods men have invented have yet to learn this simple concept.

Good point about boundaries. If I don’t wake up on time my cat sits on my head. Still, most of the time he is nice, even when fed.

You must be talking about Mormon God. Yeah, he’s been off his meds for a while now.

As for humans, we see what we want to see.

Why assume god has a penis?
I think of god more like Mother Nature, which is benevolent (loves us) otherwise we would not exist. Like Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe."
As it turns out, God (God Particle, minus the particle, since it is a universal, symetry smashing field) does play dice with the universe all the time, only the dice are loaded and tend toward cosmos instead of chaos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2019 12:11PM by schrodingerscat.

> Why assume god has a penis?


Because ghawd is all about power. It's an easy segue way from penis-to-power-to-ghawd.

elderolddog Wrote:
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> > Why assume god has a penis?
>
>
> Because ghawd is all about power. It's an easy
> segue way from penis-to-power-to-ghawd.


I got your seque way.

ghawd help me...

elderolddog Wrote:
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> ghawd help me...


Too late.

And God loves a pretty helmet, so chop off that foreskin. More evidence that God is a “she” and that she might not be “all there”.

Maybe you first need to define what you mean by God, since there are many versions.

God is a semantic workaround, or hack, for the subject object split of our language. It’s an objectivization of your inner self. So if you have a problem with God, maybe you have a problem with you.

Should I link to Charlie Sheen’s performance in Ferris Buehler? He so nailed it.

And you need to define "Love." IMO, it is a feeling, and often not governed by "reason".

As Vronsky in War and Peace said when he was dying, "It's all so simple!"

We over-analyze love. We try to stifle it into the lock-box of our small mind--like Russel Nelson does.

My favorite cartoon as a child was a one-framer of Dennis-the-menace looking into a box full of kittens: "Don't tell me that God doesn't have a sense of humor!" I have known this love my entire life. Mormon brainwashing caused me to doubt, but I never gave up on love.

God in Nature can be cruel, with devastating storms, volcanic eruptions, killer plagues, etc, etc, but life is also beautiful--we all know this!

I believe that God is bound by some of the same rules of "order" in the universe as we are. He is unable to intervene, for some reason. Mankind is relying on itself, to solve the problems.

Love comes from within us, not from God. (Though I feel God created love in the first place) The God I believe in has moved on, elsewhere, separated by time and distance too vast to comprehend.

“We try to stifle it into the lock-box of our small mind--like Russel Nelson does.”

Gollum’s “precious”. Funny how art imitates life.

If there is some sort of creator, then I don't think it does love us. I think we're some sort of Sims game created for its entertainment. Seriously, I do think that, if there is such a being. Big IF though. I don't think there is such a being.

That’s a lot to leave to “if”. I’d run the math again.

Well, and re-watch “The Matrix”. Fishburn is such a master.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2019 04:46PM by babyloncansuckit.

(my mother had died 2 months before he did), the baptist church a block away from my house had a sign about praying to God and it clicked. I don't know God. I know my dad and I know my mom.

It took me a while to figure out that although Mormonism had poisoned the well, there was still a well.

If you study the bible it is quite clear that god, if he exists, does not love us. Even where that seems to be the case, there is always a mixed message.

If there is a god, he or it is something we don’t know about, IMO. But my answer is, there is no god, and we don’t need one or his “love”. In fact, if religion is anything to go by, we are better off without trying to obtain it, since it is all conditional. And people are better off without this mindset too, and would raise their kids with unconditional love, instead of psychologically damaging them by modelling god’s love.

Why would god love us? The Christian answer is that he is our creator and loves us like children. My question is, why wouldn’t he love us? People will throw a thousand reasons demonstrating the evils of humankind. But that’s the point - a god would love unconditionally and shouldn’t need a reason. The bible and book of mormondoom don’t demonstrate unconditional love at all. Believing that scriptures do show this, is just doublethink.

Is there anything else as malleable as ghawd?

...And love?

Mormon doctrine?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2019 09:41AM by babyloncansuckit.

The minds of the young Mormon kids. You seem to have been the exception that proves the rule however. I suspect the old geezers never had a chance with you but did the best they could.

Who says there's a Ghawd and who says he loves us?

Who said it?

The people charging admission...

elderolddog Wrote:
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> The people charging admission...


Well, that explains everything.

Because he's what ever the celestial equivalent is for a perverse psychopath?