So the elders came knocking on my door. i was alone at home having a shot and beer. i let them in. I let them know my history and why i dont go to church any more. My older brother found out and sent me an email. Read:

"You invited them in? for what? Are you still fighting with the church? Sounds like you tried to sake the faith of these Elders that you invited in. If so, just stop. The church isn't a threat to the world."

My Reply:
"I have all the right in the world to share truths just as much as any member of the LDS church. Don't you find it odd to approach the church with a truth cart where you only collect on your cart the segments of the doctrine and church history that are faith promoting and discard the rest of the facts?"

"Having a fullness of the gospel yet ignoring portions of it? I am not a cancer or a disease. What if I am right? Don't you think its important to know your Maker?"

"By the way, the one who got sacked was me. My whole life the church hid doctrine and historical facts from me and told me what to do or I would go to outer darkness. Dad threatened me if I didn't follow. Mom punished me when I didn't follow as a kid. You and brother #3 made fun of me when I wasn't sure if I wanted to serve a mission."

"I think it is dishonest of the church to not provide full disclosure to investigators, especially when they require you to live the law of consecration, tithe, missions, and they have 32 billion dollars (tax exempt) and built that 3 billion dollar city creek mall to compete with those honest competing businesses that are required to pay taxes. That is so low. You can't produce full disclosure of their finances because they won't allow it."

"When I read the New Testament, and I do it a lot, the Jesus that I have come to know is not someone who would hoard 32 billion dollars and take advantage of true competitive businesses by competing with a tax shelter. As a matter of fact, he wore rags, he slept with the common man, he ate locus and honey, and he once told Nicodemus, "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
END
I'll bet he doesnt read it.

Only his arguments count. It's how they preserve what they call 'sanity'.

Don't you wish you were always RIGHT?

He probably will read it.
So what probably happened was the missionaries returned and reported to your brother directly or indirectly. They probably expressed shock and confusion. This is of course an embarrassment to your brother, because as a TBM his “religion” means more to him than family.

I have found mormons to be extremely full of themselves. The arrogance of one human being thinking they can ‘rebuke’ another human being?!?
What?!

Like: NO ONE does this in the real world.

It sounds like your family is abusive towards you. I don’t know how much it bothers you or what your background is (please feel free to share on this site) but I always feel I want to tell people to move away and find normal people to be around. How I love normal non-cult member people! I don’t live in a mormon part of the world but even I am seeking to do this; life is just too short.

I saw a couple of well-timed memes today:

“Some people will hurt you, then act like you hurt them”.

I thought: this is exactly what an abusive relationship is like, because I’ve had a few of those. Then I realised this also describes how my family are towards me as well. It winds me up because it is crazy making behaviour. The mormon cult is an abusive system.

“You deserve happiness - even if you’re not used to it”.

I realised I’ve put up with so much crap, that I am prone to continuing to do so because it’s just a matter of course for me.

That doesn’t mean we should continue to do so.

You did the right thing expressing yourself to the missionaries. They came knocking, and they should be emotionally mature enough to realise that if they have the audacity to bother someone, they might not like what that person says. Mormons often act like spoilt brats: entitled to say and do as they wish, but throw a tantrum if a non mormon does the same.

It’s crazy making. All of it.

Your other choice of course is to just say no thanks and shut the door. It depends on how you feel. I have said my piece before, and I had to do that since that’s my right, and a matter of conscience as well. However I won’t argue with mormons now. It does not matter what you say: the reaction will always be the same. We are ultimately best off forgetting their mindset and moving on. They do say the best revenge is living well - I’ve taken comfort in living my values and letting go.

My brother wouldn’t rebuke me, but I am treated like I’m in the wrong no matter what they (my family) do, and they are beyond apologising. It’s all arrogance. Let’s be glad we have escaped.

Ultimately I will truly rejoice in my freedom. But for me, first I have to be out of arms reach of further mistreatment.

Thanks for the insightful comments. I do come from an abusive family. I am the youngest of 4 boys. My older brothers always used to put me down and tell me how to live my life. The day I got home from my mission, my older brothers were debating with my father about religion (dad is a jackal Mo). While they were talking to him, I tried to insert a comment about the gospel to shed light, this same brother whom I shared the email, told me to be quiet while he had more insight to respond. LOL! I had just returned from a 2 year mission speaking the subject non-stop 80 hours weekly!

I guess I can do no right with jokers. I can show you some other emails from my oldest brother at the time that bishop was taking pics of the girl in the dressing room in TN. He lives near that mall. His first response to me was the guy was "Alleged". LMAO! I spun back a couple of others like the woman that was raped in the MTC and the Lehi bishop running a child sex ring. In one ear and out the other. Hard to believe ppl can be so stupid.

I would have said, "If we were still kids I would just say 'You're not the boss of me' and stick my tongue out."

Since we are older I wont' finish with the tongue but the rest stands.


No healthy adult tells another adult to "just stop" telling the truth--which is what he was accusing you of.

I don't know about the world but the Mormon church is a threat to the young and innocent. I'm angry now at your brother and I don't even know him.

Oh yeah, its always ok for the TBM's to bare testimony and share scriptures and spiritual messages, but no way do you have a right to talk about polyandry, adam/god, masons, book of Abraham etc...

They come knocking on my door and come in my home, the gloves are off! we are talking CES letter, curse of cain, revisions to BOM etc..

My go-to reply is -

"I don't take orders from mormons."

Even if they only glance at it, it's short enough that they can't help but read it all; it puts them in their place; plus I get to squeeze in a major victory for Satan.

My philosophy is that if anyone, family or not, has been asked and reasked to cease a behavior because it is hurtful and unkind, and then continues on with such behavior, this person does not care two hoots about me and my best interest.

At this point, I decided I will not be a victim of this treatment any longer. Sure, I learned to be a victim, but I do not have to continue down that trajectory. Setting healthy behaviors, even seeing healthy behaviors, takes time and practice when you are not used to having them around.

But believe me, the air is refreshing!

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My philosophy is that if anyone, family or not,
> has been asked and reasked to cease a behavior
> because it is hurtful and unkind, and then
> continues on with such behavior, this person does
> not care two hoots about me and my best interest.
>
>
Yes: this. Well said. I can really relate to this right now. And this person should not remain in our lives.

and what you said? Did he send them?

He's not your daddy. You are an adult now anyway. He doesn't have a right to tell you how to live.

Did he raise his arm to the square?

LMAO! I think I heard him brushing the dust of his shoes.

"Get behind me Satan"

very well written, I love your response, anything your brother tries to hit you with, is now already knocked out of the way. your brother is a bitch to confront you about this to begin with, Maybe you wanted some company. Every exmo is a missionary !

They come to your house they get what they get. I keep a printout of the URLs for the essays and just hand that out. Hey, it is on their own website after all. Same goes for your brother. He doesn't pay your rent, it ain't his house. He can go pound sand.

My older brothers are less toxic than most, but still my experience has always been that older brothers are quite adept at rebuking.

Yes, my oldest brother can be an @$$hole. My two lifelong best friends' older brothers can be @$$holes. Seems to be quite common.

I noticed that pattern too. My older brothers feel it is beneath them to admit they are wrong to their younger sibling. It's almost like a huge blow to their ego's.

It was through debating with my brother in law (18 years younger than me) that I stumbled on to polyandry on the apologetic's website. For the past 9 years I truly agree that the truth will set you free.

I appreciate all the support and words of encouragement. It really helps. My family is very narrow minded, right wing conservatives. Some days their abusive attacks and the way they don't validate my logic or even care about how I am doing really gets to me. They think they are so perfect. My mom and dad know well that I am right but they choose to defend my brothers and the church, its very upsetting. Especially my dad, he hates religion yet he says its good for you. He never said nothing nice about the Mormon culture on the whole when I was TBM. Now he I lost my compass.

Shoot, my kids are excellent students, well behaved, loving, respectful, joyful, successful, hard working and loved by many, all without the need for religion. My wife and I just give them lots of attention and love. We encourage and advise, but in the end, they have to make their own choices. Never fully understood the concept of free agency at church or BYU, always taking away your agency or making threats. Garbage!

Anyways, I greatly appreciate all your supportive responses!

Your arguments are good, ontheDownLow, and you have truth on your side. A fine response!

You could also tell him that when the missionaries leave you alone, you will leave them alone. They are the ones who came knocking on your door.

****applauding you, onthedownlow*****

Your brother needs to remember that the missionaries came to you. They are not children in need of your protection. They are going out in the world and asserting something--they should expect to be challenged. That's how it works in the adult world.

Having been out of LDS, Inc. over a decade, the last thing I want to do is seek out Mormons to have a discussion about religion. But if some come to me blabbing about how great Joseph Smith is, or that families can be together forever because of their secret formula...I can only take so much!

At that point, I will tell them about polyandry, my disagreement with LDS views on LGBTQ matters (and sex in general when it comes to that), the breathing permit of Horus, native American DNA, Hans Matson and anything else that comes to mind to disturb their precious little "faith."

If they really want to try to me get back in the fold, then they have to get through all this stuff. There's no way I would go back without being fully satisfied that all these concerns of mine are fully resolved, put into proper perspective, or God knows what. If they really do want to re-baptize me the road travels through all these hard subjects--there's no way around them.

The "elders" came to you. It's your house. It's your time. That means you have a perfect right to use that time however you like. If you choose to sing drinking songs, enjoy! Likewise if you choose to expose the behavior or history of TSSC. If they don't like it they can leave. If it doesn't fit in with their plans, they can leave. You're not stopping them.

Now: how you handle your family is a different question. It's an option to tell your brother "disagree" and let it go.