Or...Is this just the case of a cause seeking an effect?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/us/nasa-life-on-mars-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/im-convinced-we-found-evidence-of-life-on-mars-in-the-1970s/

The Labeled Release (LR) experiment on the Viking mission reported positive results, although most have dismissed them as inorganic chemical reactions.

In addition to the direct evidence for life on Mars obtained by the Viking LR, evidence supportive of, or consistent with, extant microbial life on Mars has been obtained by Viking, subsequent missions to Mars, and discoveries on Earth:

Surface water sufficient to sustain microorganisms was found on Mars by Viking, Pathfinder, Phoenix and Curiosity;

Ultraviolet (UV) activation of the Martian surface material did not, as initially proposed, cause the LR reaction: a sample taken from under a UV-shielding rock was as LR-active as surface samples;

Complex organics, have been reported on Mars by Curiosity’s scientists, possibly including kerogen, which could be of biological origin;

Phoenix and Curiosity found evidence that the ancient Martian environment may have been habitable.
The excess of carbon-13 over carbon-12 in the Martian atmosphere is indicative of biological activity, which prefers ingesting the latter;

The Martian atmosphere is in disequilibrium: its CO2 should long ago have been converted to CO by the sun’s UV light; thus the CO2 is being regenerated, possibly by microorganisms as on Earth;

Terrestrial microorganisms have survived in outer space outside the ISS;

Ejecta containing viable microbes have likely been arriving on Mars from Earth;

Methane has been measured in the Martian atmosphere; microbial methanogens could be the source;

The rapid disappearance of methane from the Martian atmosphere requires a sink, possibly supplied by methanotrophs that could co-exist with methanogens on the Martian surface;

Ghost-like moving lights, resembling will-O’-the-wisps on Earth that are formed by spontaneous ignition of methane, have been video-recorded on the Martian surface;

Formaldehyde and ammonia, each possibly indicative of biology, are claimed to be in the Martian atmosphere;

An independent complexity analysis of the positive LR signal identified it as biological;

Six-channel spectral analyses by Viking’s imaging system found terrestrial lichen and green patches on Mars rocks to have the identical color, saturation, hue and intensity;

A wormlike feature was in an image taken by Curiosity;

Large structures resembling terrestrial stromatolites (formed by microorganisms) were found by Curiosity; a statistical analysis of their complex features showed less than a 0.04 percent probability that the similarity was caused by chance alone;

No factor inimical to life has been found on Mars.

In summary, we have: positive results from a widely-used microbiological test; supportive responses from strong and varied controls; duplication of the LR results at each of the two Viking sites; replication of the experiment at the two sites; and the failure over 43 years of any experiment or theory to provide a definitive nonbiological explanation of the Viking LR results.

What is the evidence against the possibility of life on Mars? The astonishing fact is that there is none. Furthermore, laboratory studies have shown that some terrestrial microorganisms could survive and grow on Mars.

NASA has already announced that its 2020 Mars lander will not contain a life-detection test. In keeping with well-established scientific protocol, I believe an effort should be made to put life detection experiments on the next Mars mission possible. I and my co-experimenter have formally and informally proposed that the LR experiment, amended with an ability to detect chiral metabolism, be sent to Mars to confirm the existence of life: non-biological chemical reactions do not distinguish between “left-handed” and “right-handed” organic molecules, but all living things do.

Moreover, the Chiral LR (CLR) could confirm and extend the Viking LR findings. It could determine whether any life detected were similar to ours, or whether there was a separate genesis. This would be a fundamental scientific discovery in its own right. A small, lightweight CLR has already been designed and its principle verified by tests. It could readily be turned into a flight instrument.

Meanwhile a panel of expert scientists should review all pertinent data of the Viking LR together with other and more recent evidence concerning life on Mars. Such an objective jury might conclude, as I did, that the Viking LR did find life. In any event, the study would likely produce important guidance for NASA’s pursuit of its holy grail.

Scientists find the previous Mars lander stripped and up on blocks.

Now let me get this straight. They found vikings on mars?

Man those dudes went everywhere..sheesh.

Yes, they were playing the Packers.

Any sign of gold plates? Mars would have been a great storage place for the angel to stash them.

I read about this thirty years ago. The Viking results were inconclusive but leaned towards primitive life. Scientists have been taught to err so much on the side of caution that they didn't look at the results in a balanced fashion.

Well, duh. Orson Pratt said way back in 1878 that Mars was inhabited. Science is finally catching up with the prophets. Back to church everyone!

I remember hearing the rumors back then. I lived in the heart of NASA. True, or not, it was considered a career killer in the NASA and NASA contractor communities to speak about it outside of backyard BBQ's after a few beers. NASA managed their PR and personnel like a Fortune 100 corporation back then.

in b 4 ~ SL Cabbie ~


LOL @ NASA spending billions of u. s. dollars exmo $$$ trying to prove they atheist theories ~



ETA: spelling ~


also ~ where would RfM bee without anybody's click-bait links ? ~



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 07:09PM by ziller.

It won't be long before a mormon prophet announces at a Sunday afternoon conference session that missionaries will be called to serve on Mars, followed 10 years later by the announcement a temple will be built on a choice slope of Olympus Mons, Mars, and the solar system's, tallest mountain (assuming we've guessed right about Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune...).

Tee-hee. You funny boy EOD.

Hey, if you think that by using "Tee-hee" I'm going to let you tee off from the red tees, you can toss that notion right out!

Or perhaps the Weekly World News might be a more accurate characterization.

I have no idea why this thread was addressed to me; the subject of possible life on Mars has only slightly more credibility with me than Moon Quakers, honest.

The same is true these days of Scientific American; it was a serious publication when I was teen but today it's strictly a tabloid.

and have a knack for telling truth from B.S.

Definitely not coming from the Weekly World News direction.

I also thought you might have heard about this in the past and wanted to know your opinion. I hadn't heard of this experiment on the old Viking landers before.

There's a chance that there's something. We probably won't know for sure until we actually get there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_on_Mars#Possible_biosignatures



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2019 07:46PM by anybody.

As I said, I remain really skeptical the Martian environment could produce actual "signs of life." I am familiar--from a junior high biology class--with the Miller Urey experiments that did yield amino acids in a controlled environment believed to be essentially identical to that of the early earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

Amino acids--the "building blocks of protein" were the result, and I invite those interested to look further. What we do know from molecular biology is that nucleic acids act as a "coding device" to create proteins as part of the process of cell replication.

In the name of Watson and Crick,

SLC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_ocean_hypothesis

I know about the Miller-Urey experiment. Potential life probably wouldn't have a chance starting on Mars now, but what about in the past when Mars had oceans and an atmosphere? Would anything still be living after whatever happened to Mars that made the planet lose its magnetic field, atmosphere, and oceans?

That's the question...

I would argue the comparison with Earth (where the origins of life may or may not extend that far into the past) amounts to speculation, and the science is problematic. The assumption it rests on is the belief the timetable for Earth and Mars would've been similar, but given the distance from Mars to the sun (141.6 million miles) the obvious temperature difference cannot be ignored. Per Buckminster Fuller, "The flow of energy through a system acts to organize that system." What evidence is there the organization on one planet would be identical or even similar to that on another?

And that's only off the top of my head...

See also Carl Sagan: "Remarkable claims require remarkable proof."

Edit: I also found this in my wanderings. You may have heard of Nature...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-018-0107-7

>>If one stumbles into a conference session on early Mars, it quickly becomes clear that the battle lines are drawn. On one side, scientists argue that early Mars was warm and wet beneath a thick greenhouse atmosphere. On the other side, scientists argue just the opposite: that Mars was cold and dry, with icy terrains transiently warmed just enough to allow liquid water to shape the surface. The result is an often entertaining, but frustrating debate. This month sees the latest rumble as Ramirez and Craddock throw down the gauntlet for a warm early Mars.

I'm just the reporter on this one, honest; I won't pretend any in-depth knowledge one way or another, but on the subject of DNA and molecular biology, I do know a nucleotide from a nitwit. The probability DNA could've bridged 70 million miles of empty space is negligible as is the probability the same processes would've taken place separately on Earth and Mars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2019 11:14PM by SL Cabbie.

Maybe, because at 2 am, you meet a lot of alien beings?