All of the dirt on J.S and gang, church doings, etc weren’t known and and documented or published until the last decade or so. I don’t remember half the things out now ,that were available to the public, that were well know as they are now, in the 80s and mid 90’s, when I still attended. I do notice that if you drive near an LDS ward on Sundays, that the parking lots are only half filled, at best.
Hockeyrat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > All of the dirt on J.S and gang, church doings, > etc weren’t known and and documented or > published until the last decade or so. > I don’t remember half the things out now ,that > were available to the public, that were well know > as they are now, in the 80s and mid 90’s, when I > still attended. > I do notice that if you drive near an LDS ward > on Sundays, that the parking lots are only half > filled, at best.
"Dirt" was being published on JS in his lifetime. "No Man Knows My History" was published in 1945.
I can see that the more accurate biography and Tanner pamphlets were easy for members to write-off as coming from "disgruntled former members" or "anti-material" not worth their time, now it seems like it is everywhere online with multiple sources, some whom may be viewed as more trustworthy by the questioning members. On top of that the church leadership is being viewed as more and more heartless and out of touch with reality especially as dealing with LGBT issues on top of past discriminatory treatment of black members.
Meanwhile LDS, Inc leadership continues to rearrange the deck chairs by messing around with names of things, including itself -- as if the Captain of the Titanic tried to save his ship by ordering the name on the side changed to "Lusitania".
The only thing saving LDS, Inc is their shrewd money management and diverse real estate investments.
Mormons, with with most cults, are impervious to information. You can’t get through to them with reason because their cult is intrinsically unreasonable.
Bad ideas are tougher than crab grass.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 04:07PM by babyloncansuckit.
This is true. I have given my sister documents regarding the BITE model, and she refuses to even look at them. She claims she knows they are already wrong and the church is right. Their excuse is that I should do research from church sources. Yeah that will really help me, yeah right. Any information that does now align with the church message is wrong in their view. It just proves how narrow minded they really are.
For Mormons facts are just hurdles to jump over and the higher you jump the more your faith shines brilliantly and you are the best Mormon ever for everyone to see!
I think a lot of guys secretly have sympathy for polygamy. Lot's of mormons have guns and like to hunt so they don't get terribly offended at MMM, displacement of Indians by cowboys, and the stress on wildlife. Climate change and political correctness is mostly laughed at by mormons. Racism is alive and well where I live (N. Utah) and is especially fueled by news stories of violence from certain groups in the recent past.
For mormonism to die it's not that there is a lack of information, it's how people interpret that information. People need to have a change of world view. Secularism needs to rise, and it's way of looking at the world. But for that to happen Secularists need to advertise themselves in a more presentable and rational way than what they are use to doing. Most of them usually look like a bunch of hysterical freaks and ne'r-do-wells to traditionalists mormons.
Almost everybody I know is a secularist who doesn't even talk about being one or religion or anything. It is a non-issue. Boring, even.
It is not the onus of secularists to convert the religious by being wonderful examples of what the religious might cotton to. Other than a small minority, there is no secular agenda other than not being having "religious rights" shoved on us by some of the more ardent politically religious.
Two thirds of the claimed membership have already abandoned Mormonism. That's not a bad start.
The church is stagnant at best in the industrialized world. Even in the Morridor, much of the under-30 crowd is giving Mormonism the side-eye. When GAs talk about the future of the church, you can practically see the flop-sweat. Ignore what they say. Watch the body language. They are worried. They are right to be so.
The peak year for increase in membership was 1989. Growth was still fairly robust through much of the 1990s. Things have been on a steady decline beginning at about the time the internet became common (except for a short uptick the year following the reduction in missionary age). For the past couple of years, claimed membership growth is at a rate below the population growth of the earth (in other words, mormonism’s microscopic portion of the world’s population is going down).
Information hasn’t (yet) killed mormonism, but it has seriously injured it.
There's serious problems with the youth and primary programs. The numbers are hurting. Today's parents are a lot more permissive than in the past. If kids don't want to attend on Sunday, more parents are saying it's not a big deal. Look at the young men and women's organizations. The church doesn't know what to do about it. They are offering face time chats with the fossils. Does anybody think that is going to do the trick?
I feel similarly about Scientology. It's possibly been in decline for over 20 years, and news outlets stopped fearing it about eleven years ago. The beasts are bleeding and dying slowly. Unfortunately, they still can cause more of the same kind of harm before going down for good.
My TBM neighbor refuses to read anything that isn't in the 'standard works' or published by Deseret Book. She'll be a true believer until the day she dies. Oh wait, she was elderly and did pass away recently. No doubt she was the type of person that the brethren wish would live forever.
For many Mormons, the church's dirty laundry means nothing anyway. The church is their culture, heritage and way of life. They know nothing else and the church is a safe place for them. Mormons claim that they belong to the church because of its truth, when in reality truth often means very little them.
Its impossible to see the truth about belief when u believe. I told my daughter one time, u'll never know the truth about J.S. as long as u believe in him. Belief will keep u from the truth.
I became very bitter about it robbing me of my life, I was on the mormon treadmill, took me a very long time to look on the other side.
When I first got on-line in 1998, the first thing I did was join an LDS chat room.
Before long, I was asked to be one of the moderators. Since I had to deal with the “anti-Mormons” I had several books and pamphlets at-hand which taught me hrow to deal with their challenges.
I believed what the church leaders told me in those books. I believed that all of the challenges were lies.
No matter how much evidence they said they had, I already knew they were lies, so there was no point in checking out their claims.
It wasn’t until I faced some major challenges to my faith that I was finally ready to examine the claims that I had been presented with during my early years on-line.
It took until I reached the point where the truth became more important to me than needing the Church to be true before I was ready for the real truth. I fully expected it to be exonerated. No one was more shocked than I was when the real truth set in.
The same will be true for anyone who is holding onto the Church for dear life. Until they are emotionally ready for it, they will not hear the truth, even if it is right in front of them.
I never expected it to totally put Churchco out of business. Some people were just born to spend their lives in a cult. If not the Mormon cult, it would be some other cult-like organization or ideology that they would fanatically adhere to. Cult people don't do logic and facts.
Information, facts and logic can have an impact on thoughtful, self-critical people. Not so much on fanatics or people who are so invested in a belief system that they do not dare ever admit that they could be wrong and, therefore, will never allow critical thinking to spend any time inside the walls of their mental fortress.
You are spot on. And it doesn't matter what level of education those people have attained, it cannot make them thoughtful, self-critical people. They just have a cult mindset and personality that seems inbred. I think it is especially true with very misogynistic men.
I always believed I was stuck in the church no matter what because it was impossible to ever be 100% sure it wasn't true, and having been born into it, I'd be in extremely deep dodo with good ol Gawd if I rejected it. I was jealous of the really good non-mormon people who would probably go to the CS (if somebody did their temple work), but could live a normal life while they were here. I thought those were the ones who played their cards right in the pre-E.
Well, I was wrong. It IS possible to know it's not true and that it is a total fraud, with its founder being one of the best con artists who ever lived. It's possible because of a little thing called facts and evidence. So lucky for me, and others who really want to live normal lives. But for those who are hard-wired to need a cult, it just doesn't matter. Anything that doesn't fit their pardigm is from Satan. End of subject. So although they're losing many of the formerly best members, it will always be around for those who need it.
For implied critical thinking this is fairly broad brushing Mormons. I would qualify that for some a strict, structured, and easily followed organization has appeal.
The premise that The Internet and its wealth of information could change this aspect of humans is a bit naïve in my opinion.
For a belief system, Mormons are surprisingly ignorant about how beliefs work. Everyone’s beliefs are colored by their inner world constructed from birth. If that world supports Mormonism, you can go to heaven. If not, maybe you can be a servant or live in the slums. Unless Mormonism no longer agrees with you, then have fun in outer darkness. All this from whichever way a child’s mind develops.
But the Mormon game doesn’t have to make sense. It just has to make money. Believe stupid things, win stupid prizes.
billions or dollars spent by the church on a street mall that could of helped the poor is discusting, where the tithing is going to.Most lds just blink an eye and move on from that as if its gods will and modern day revelation makes it right.