The Purpose of Purpose--My Friday 2 1/2 Minute Talk

Read an article last night. "Psychedelics in the Golden Years."

Fascinating. Older people making journeys to Central and South America to participate in an ayahuasca experience. I thought, well, this must be similar to having an afternoon with EoD. But no. People are taking a drug from a vine from the Amazon that makes them very sick and throw up and have diarrhea. And, hallucinate or get in touch with their inner self, and sort out old hurt, connect with loved ones, and all the other things magic vines can do for you.

So obviously a lot of people take the "trip" for a lot of nutty, sane, or other miscellaneous reasons like to be cool. Unexpectedly, more and more elderly are having a cuppa ayahuasca to jog them out of their grooves. However, unlike their fellow travelers, the main reason they are doing this, if you ask them, is to find, Purpose!

The other day on RFM there was a link to middle aged white men in Montana leading the nation in our growing suicide rate. The main reason survivors gave or those considering suicide gave? They felt no purpose. Nada. Zilch.

As effed up as that church is, gives my elderly mother that illusive purpose I would aver. I would also posit that is why so many stay in spite of the lies and control and bigotry that they purposefully turn a blind eye to. Purpose. They want purpose more than they want truth?

How many times did we hear someone stand in F&T and tearfully say, "I would be nothing without the church." Was that for show or for real? How many times even here does someone want to list all the good about the church--like it matters.

Some lose purpose when they retire and feel untethered. A cruise on Carnival does not fix that. Driving you children nuts may help though with loss of purpose due to empty nest :) Hobbies? Rarely enough.

So what gives purpose besides Mormonism or Ayahuasca? What makes you love to be alive? Even when things aren't so good. What?



RFM was my ayahuasca. I came. I saw. I conquered. haha. I sorted out. I faced a past that I had buried all the way to China. I allowed myself to see what had really happened as a Mormon. Luckily RFM comes without the vomiting and diarrhea although I did experience some violent psychological purging at times. Having been Mormon will do that to you.

Purpose ... meaning ... the more I think on it the less I understand what these words are supposed to mean.

Is purpose meaning? Or is it something different?

Is purpose like having a goal? But if you reach the goal you need to find another purpose.

Meaning seems to imply "significance," something important in itself. As opposed to a goal or getting from point A to point B.

Maybe sometimes it's just habit and routine, like going to church, something you're just used to doing and it's easier to keep doing than to stop. That might seem like purpose if you don't think about it too much.

Can you live without purpose or meaning? I don't know

I like your point. The word itself, Purpose, seems to be totally nebulous and you have to make it your own.. When I read so many instances lately, so close together, focusing on this one word, it made me realize. Whatever purpose is, we seem to need it nearly as much as food and water.

How's this:

'Purpose' is something you do, or don't do, because it brings a smile to your face.

And then you're either a loner or hanging out with like-minded beings.

Whatever brings a smile to your face. Yes. Makes you feel good. Gives you butterflies. I Like.

It could be anything but you got to find it? So maybe the purpose is the search and not the discovery. And having no purpose is not even searching anymore?

So psychedelics have a purpose. That is why its called a "Trip?"

There’s a reason they call it “getting smashed”. As you get older, you develop rigid ways of thinking. Taking a sledgehammer to that can help loosen things up.

Life has no porpoise.

It would if you believed in Fresca cans.

Is fresca a thing among porpoises ?

And I don't care what the rest of the cetaceans think about fresca.

Dr. Pepper!!

Mormons generally say they believe in the (what I call) Core Essentials of Christ-Like living, but they've put CHURCH CHURCH CHURCH as First Priority;

so they quibble about the meaning & application of Honesty (recently diluted in the TRIQ), Kindness, etc. ... as if resolving horrible situations have some sort of 'expiration' so it's no use to engage in healing.

Healing <> Mormonism

For a minute there I was thinking this was going to be about the ever present junk drawer. You never know when something is going to have a purpose, but it's usually when you throw it away. :D

Haha. Good one. Such an Andy Rooney thing to say.

"The meaning of life is the quest for the meaning of life."--a Stanford philosophy professor.

This goes along with what Done and Done wrote: "So maybe the purpose is the search and not the discovery."

But the discoveries are what keep us searching.

I would add "Love" and "Joy" which often appear as side-effects, rather than as a result of any great search aimed directly at finding these.

Mormons are like the horse in a short Margerite Henry true story. The horse had pulled a huge grain-grinding stone his whole life, every day, walking around in a circle, from the time the morning whistle blew, to when it blew again at dusk. When the horse got old, the owner retired him to a nice pasture next to the mill, and the horse seemed to go downhill, until one morning, when the whistle blew, the horse started to walk in a circle, the same size as his old circle around the grindstone, and he didn't stop until the closing whistle blew. He became healthy again, happy and invigorated. That story impressed me as a child, and I knew I was usually happiest if I had some sort of task I was accomplishing, to give me a sense of "purpose."

I suppose most of the Mormon tasks are harmless. It doesn't matter if the person is actually accomplishing something or if he just thinks he is, like the horse. Temple work is a complete waste of time and resources, but it seems to have a soothing effect on some of the elderly temple workers who think they are helping God shuffle and sort His dead souls, or whatever it is they think they're doing.

It's like "occupational therapy" in mental hospitals, where patients make things out of clay, or create paintings that are just tossed in the trash. Or it's like parents who supposedly "waste their lives" raising kids that turn out to be burdens on society. Did they really waste their lives changing and bathing and feeding their babies, playing with them, making them giggle, holding them, showing them the world?

Life is all about the process, not in the end result. That's where temple Mormonism gets it very wrong, by focusing on death and the hereafter.

Thank you. That is an excellent point of view. Just as good as a dose of ayahuasca.

If I am down, all I have to do is go work in the garden and I feel so good again. Doesn't solve any other problem in my life--they are all still waiting when the last plant is planted, but some reservoir gets filled while I'm working in the flower beds and I feel good to go again.

One of my golf buddies, at the request of his 25 year old son, took the boy to Peru and they did the ayahuasca thing, with some "shaman" who split his time between New York state and Peru. The whole thing cost a pretty penny!

He drank the 'kool-aid' and spent six hours curled up in a fetal position, crying, while everyone else was tripping out, just as the brochures intimated would be the happy results.

He's never going back.

Once you go Peruvian, you never go back.

elderolddog Wrote:
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>
>
> He drank the 'kool-aid' and spent six hours curled
> up in a fetal position, crying, while everyone
> else was tripping out....
>
I have a friend who gets that exact same result about once a month...from a cheap bottle of wine. Curled up in a fetal position? Check. Blubbering and moaning about ridiculous things? Check. Vomiting? Check. The only thing missing is the Shaman guide.

In and then out of ‘the church’, my purpose has remained the same:

To be a good

To be a truthful

To be beautiful

Part of this purpose, besides embodying to the best of my ability goodness, truth and beauty, is seeking out and honouring beauty truth and goodness wherever it is to be found, in others, in art, in nature, in science and in myself.

This purpose is not contingent upon a job, a skill, or anything practical or community serving, it doesn’t even rely on having a partner or loved ones. Even if/when I am bereft of these, the things that bring to many people purpose in life, I must continue to embody and seek and honour truth, beauty and goodness to the very end of my life.

Also, sincerely, I did not choose this purpose. It seems to me weaved into the very fabric of human existence, and the basis for what has long been called sacred. It chooses me.

What Mormonism calls beautiful, true and good seem to me the very things their Satan would call good, true and beautiful. But I agree with Joe jr. that men are that they might have joy, and that is exactly what truth, beauty and goodness provide.

Through pain, suffering, disappointment and failure alike I have experienced joy, and I trust I will continue to do so to the very end no matter how bitter it may be, because even in the final bitterness, there will be some truth to honour, and maybe, God willing, some beauty and goodness also.

Human

Its what's inside that counts then? I would agree. Whatever purpose is must be internally driven.

And I like your trinity . . .

I don't do too bad at being good.
I'm okay with being truthful.
But being beautiful? That is getting really hard at this age. Having something to look forward to goes a long way. Got to have something on the bucket list always.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> But being beautiful? That is getting really hard
> at this age.


I once saw beauty inhered in the graceful tilt in the wrist of an ancient crone pouring a cup of tea from a silver pot her grandmother brought with her to Canada as a newlywed.

Stunning image. I could see the image. Reminds me of a photo shoot that stuck in my head. Two super models standing next to the then 80 something Carmen del Orofice. Carmen made them look like hamburger. Beauty rarely seen.



I have a rose bush stunning as well--Mother of Pearl the rose is called.
The buds, tight salmon pink. But not for long.
Like the nacre, each rose unveils new hues hour by hour, day by day. Every angle a reveal.

Opening glints of iridescence duet with the sun.
Follow each to twilight
Fully open, even elderly, receiving butterflies and bees
Bees forced to bow under the tiny petal that protects the yellow fringe of the center
Beaming softly with more dignity than even Elizabeth receiving her subjects.
The grace that only comes with the ripeness that bursts seams

Old faces, nacred. Old smiles and iridescent eyes.
Graceful hands of a crone?
Ready for a duet if you are
Ready to breathe new life into the one they are leaving.
Faded colors of sunset rose bequeath an orange rose hip
A new day


***I don't ever write poetry because I tend to get sappy. But I will risk it this once.

Thank you, Done & Done - your poetry was beautiful.

Good morning. A new day indeed. Lovely words to greet what I hope will be a rosy sunrise this morning.

Your words somehow reminded me of the moment in Wallace Stegner’s Angle of Repose when Oliver rips the rose bushes from the ground and lays them aside. I read the book twenty years ago and that moment still haunts...

Cheers and sunshine to you, D&D!

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stunning image. I could see the image. Reminds me
> of a photo shoot that stuck in my head. Two super
> models standing next to the then 80 something
> Carmen del Orofice. Carmen made them look like
> hamburger. Beauty rarely seen.


From Wikipedia:

Carmen Dell'Orefice is an American supermodel and actress. She is known within the fashion industry for being the world's oldest working model as of the Spring/Summer 2012 season. She was on the cover of Vogue at the age of 15 and has been modeling ever since.

Born: June 3, 1931, New York

Height: 5′ 11″

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_AlOYA6-e8


She's either on drugs or has a serene soul... Or I guess you could successfully combine the two?

Thank you for the link. I hadn't seen that. I don't care much about models but Carmen is like a great artwork to me, like Van Gogh's irises or something. Transcends the paint or the chromosomes somehow.

I’m struggling for purpose now that my kids grew up and are far away. Purpose is a one-day-at-a-time thing nowadays. Beauty used to be a purpose. Now, looking presentable is the goal. While typing this, my little dog jumped up and fell asleep on my lap. And here I said I had no purpose. Silly me. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2019 02:04AM by kathleen.

That's a touching and insightful post. Purpose is largely about finding one's own particular puppy.

Touched me too. That is truly purpose.

My cat is diabetic and he absolutely needs me to survive. I know what you mean because I do feel a purpose in being his "mom."

“I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

“I thought, well, this must be similar to having an afternoon with EoD”

LOL

Great post.

I remember saying similar things when I was a mormon and hearing others say “I would be nothing without the church”. We meant it. What this also refers to is feeling saved, rather than just having a purpose. That’s how worthless the mormon church made me feel; then it made me feel awesome by offering me the cure to their non-existent illness.

I think people need a sense of purpose in order to overcome how bad they feel inside. This is putting the cart before the horse. What’s wrong with just “being”; and feeling fine just as we are?

I was recently speaking with my daughter about the mormon church. Things have improved for me in that i now have this dialogue with my daughter so that I no longer feel so alone in my experience with my family. It’s very validating because she understands and agrees. However, she did say that one positive thing about the religion is that it gives people a purpose, and that is a good thing, but that this is the case with religion in general.

I’ve also heard this a lot before.

My argument against that is that you don’t need a church or religion for purpose in your life. It’s just a ready prescribed one that requires no journey of self discovery. I know of someone who took the trip to South America for the ayahuasca experience and she swore by it, and that it was life changing. Personally I’d never do such a thing. Again, my view is that such transformation is possible without the aid of a drug, or a religion. In fact, people use religion like it’s a drug; they can become dependent on it. “The opium of the people”.

I can believe that suicide rates could be partly due to feeling a lack of purpose. This could be a societal problem, as well as a personal one. A more useful piece of research would examine how other people found purpose and overcame depression, and compare it to the experience of those who decided to end it all. I suspect that it’s more complicated than that. Often suicide happens when someone is ashamed; it’s been shown that people will often prefer to die rather than face shame for something. What kind of society has done that to us?

As for finding a purpose, I believe this is more of an internal journey than an external one. Life to me is trying to become more my authentic self, living my values, and finding love. It would be easy to succumb to societal expectations and focus on the external, but our society in some ways is like the mormon church: you can never be good enough. My feeling is that people struggle to find purpose because we are raised and conditioned to not value the internal, not value ourselves, and disconnect with ourselves. Life then becomes a hamster wheel, constantly chasing the unobtainable or the unfulfilling.

Our society is not secular. I have this idea that the idea of original sin might be absorbed by people at a young age and that the idea we are all inherently flawed seems fundamental to our unconscious beliefs. In many ways, we are a shame based culture.

A lot of people are also conditioned in childhood to believe that self worth comes from achieving and doing. When my daughter left home, the purpose I’d known for 18 years was suddenly gone ; what did I do? I went to nursing school. I realise now I was just trying to find another role. This is a flawed, and somewhat superficial way of finding purpose, that doesn’t last. Obviously this is more pronounced in mormonism, where you can only be saved “after all you can do” which is the ultimate and abusive distortion of christianity.

This is just my own feeling based on what I have experienced and observed.

So no wonder the mormon church gives people a feeling of purpose, and with it, the feeling of wellbeing that they would otherwise lack. I see this keeps people in it and feeling happy, when without this, they might question things and leave; if they fit in culturally then it must feel like the magic formula for them.

My daughter let it slip that my brother and sister in law do question things about the mormon church. Not in any fundamental way. But this got me thinking about how incredibly intelligent they are, and I think mormonism just works so well for them, gives them community as well, a distinct place in that community, and makes them feel happy.

When I left, this is the only thing I missed. Structure and purpose. It has been a challenging journey to find my own way. But I wouldn’t change that for the world.

Shame. I love that you brought that to the table. Purpose may be a chameleon of a word, but shame? We all know exactly what that is. I do see shame's relationship to suicide; to not liking your life even if you plan to stick around.

Isn't not feeling good enough part of feeling like you have no purpose? And isn't the purpose religion offers just a substitute for purpose rather than the real deal. Like, I know so many who feel like they have been failures in life or not achieved their goals when they compare themselves to others who have had accomplishment and success, but then they say "Hey, I may not have amounted to much in this life but I'm going to the Celestial Kingdom. So there!" That fixes the shame they feel.

I really appreciate your post, LJ12 and the way you broadened the scope. I have always been driven to accomplishment as a way to prove myself to others. After a life time of that I realize I was only proving myself to me--which made it all the more worth it. Even more, I wasn't proving myself to a God for a reward. The reward is already inside me.

I deliberately chose a job where I would feel that I was making a contribution, and doing some good in the world (teaching, and urban teaching in particular.) At this point I am just finishing out my career, and no longer feel driven by the need to contribute. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I am looking forward to retirement when I can spend the day as I please.

Although I enjoyed my prior career in the design/business sector, I'm not sure I would have had the same sense of satisfaction from it.

I think that finding purpose is something that everyone needs to work out for themselves. A church cannot work it out for you. There is no one perfect solution. Some people might find it in raising children, or providing a loving home, or doing rescue work with animals, or volunteering.

I think at the end of my life I will feel that I enjoyed my life, lived it purposefully, and gave something back. I have been lucky as well. I am grateful for my life.

I cannot properly attribute the following but I believe it.

To have a purposeful life we need three things:

1. Something to do
2. Someone to love
3. Something to look forward to

That's a good way of summing it up. I especially like the "something to look forward to." I've always felt that is critically important.

I read that not long ago and those lines were attributed to someone but I've already forgotten who. About as sage as you get I would say.


Every time I hear those words, I am caught by the wisdom of "someone to love" rather than being loved--which I think would be first on the list of many. My dogs taught me what love was. Just came out of nowhere from some hiding place once they were on the scene.

In other news, an interview in the NYT with 82 year old John Giorno, artist, poet, activist, who died between the interview and it being published.

An excerpt from Giorno: "In my mid 60's, one of my first LSD trips was a bad one, and I realized it wasn't the drug but my mind. I didn't know what to do so I meditated."

This stopped me in my tracks. That he would come to this conclusion. Others might have thought they "just got a bad batch."

As Mormons sometimes we saw the world full of the "natural man" as a bad batch. But in fact, it wasn't the drug, it was our own minds. As ExMos we got shaken out of our grooves sans drugs. Nice.



And Giorno studied Buddhism extensively to the end. Which apparently got his mind out of its groove and made him important enough to interview. He doesn't mention anything more about the LSD which many have claimed to have the same effects as the ayahuasca. Perhaps a drug trip is just avoiding the heavy lifting.

Buddhism. Proves Lamas are better than sheep? Giorno proved sometimes its us not them.