He's falling all over himself trying to embrace the politically correct. In a few decades it will be indistinguishable from your run of the mill pop culture Christian church.
In the early 2000's, the GAs were still preaching full-on Family Values & anti-divorce rhetoric, I'm thinking (no evidence) this tune isn't being sung any longer; the Mormons know that Divorce is the biggest threat to families & continuity of generations, yet they've changed the tune against SSM, gender re-assignment, etc.
However, with temple sealings & 'marriages', youngsters couldn't attend which most anyone would say is a positive experience for children to see sibs & other relatives exchange vows, do the rituals, etc.
Maybe they'll invent a way to exclude youngsters from funerals also; OH WAIT! those serving on missions: Got It!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2019 01:32PM by GNPE.
Yikes! I haven't really thought about that, maybe only once years ago. If my wife passed away, or one of my children's siblings, while they were on a mission, the Bishop/Church, etc. would experience some serious wrath, and I'd be out of the church so fast there head would spin.
He really has no other option. In the Western world, the population of people who want to be mormons is growing ever more slowly, if not actually declining. Not wanting to be a 3rd-world-centric organization, the Prophet Supremo has to scrub as much mormonism as possible from his 'church' in an effort to make it more palatable to the desired consumer.
I don't see this as a long-term successful strategy.
3X Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- In the Western > world, the population of people who want to be > mormons is growing ever more slowly, if not > actually declining.
I'm quite sure that it is indeed actually declining and has been declining for quite some time.
Most wards and stakes outside of the Mormon Corridor (Utah, Arizona, Idaho) are running on skeleton crews compared to the 1980s. Most of the youth cannot have a social life that is self-contained within the church anymore because there aren't enough other Mormon kids in their age groups to make it possible. My Mormon nephews and nieces who live far outside of the Mormon corridor mainly have non-Mormon friends and peers because there are typically only one or two other kids close to their age to be friends with at church and the likelihood of finding someone compatible is greatly reduced.
I strongly suspect that even the most active of my Mormon nephews and nieces will be semi-active, inactive or full-blown apostates within the next decade. There's just nothing really pulling them toward the church other than parental expectations. And none of them are choosing to go to Church-operated universities.
This is totally different from the way things were when I was a youth...and look how I turned out, despite circumstances where the church seemed to have a lot more to offer. ;o)
Most the tithing money comes from the United States. The church outside the US has to be subsidized by the US members. Losing membership inside the US is a big fear of the church.
They can never get rid of the temple. That is the one unique feature of Mormonism. So they will cling to that, and that alone, until the zombie apocalypse.
you mean the MOST HIDEOUS FEATURE. Most people don't know that, though.
My TBM aunt (that one for anyone who read her letter) said her granddaughters aren't dating. I've seen her granddaughters. They are all nice looking and all educated with good jobs. They aren't dating. No guys to date in mormonism. They all live in the SLC area. I see it all over around here in Cache Valley. More and more and more.
The church is spending a lot of resources making temples more accessible to the membership. Yup. They are focusing of Christ and the temple but they keep changing the temple ceremonies and will continue to do so.
What’s going to happen is the members are going to get burnt out on the temple but they can keep changing things. The temple in another 30 years might be very different than it is today. Who knows. Maybe they will start doing group meditation and chanting in the temple. Ha! Ha! Tear the seats out and everyone shows up with a special yoga mat only to be used in the temple. Once the group reaches bliss they go into the celestial room for refreshments.
Jacko Mo Mo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > He's falling all over himself trying to embrace > the politically correct. In a few decades it will > be indistinguishable from your run of the mill pop > culture Christian church.
The only thing he's not watering down is the authoritarianism
There used to be doctrine, which allowed people a certain independence from church diktat. For decades the church has been diluting the doctrine to the point where all that is left is obedience. There remains no doctrine, there are no standards, independent of complete subservience.
Jacko Mo Mo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In a few decades it will > be indistinguishable from your run of the mill pop > culture Christian church.
And I applaud him if this were true. But it isn't.
Guess he's following the Community Of Christ model. Too bad they cannot just merge (TCOJCOLDS and CofC) but that would dilute the coffers and take away his power. Maybe they could arm wrestle for top place. Loser gets to be Vice-President of the new church.
It probably doesn't matter much to the Big 15 what happens to the religion. It's probably more about the for-profit wing of Mormonism. They are the board of directors in that realm and that's what really matters to them. The common, low level membership can just go to blazes for all they care.
I find it interesting at RfM that some people post how CoJC is a business and others how CoJC is becoming more mainstream.
What about the middle road. The CoJC is a business so they are trying to appear as they did over 100 years ago like they are conforming when all the evidence points to the contrary?
They haven't changed. They are trying to walk the razor's edge of being a profitable cult and an accepted religion in The US and World.
GNPE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > some of the 'business' people & the 'mainstream' > people... are the Same individuals.
Gordon Hinkley is their poster child prophet for the 21st Mormonism. Russell Nelson is tweaking Gordo's master plan a bit.
I honestly don't think that Nelson has any kind of "testimony" about the core claims of the church with regard to special inspiration, priesthood authority, the Book of Mormon and so on.
He seems to think that Jesus is a nice idea and he would really like to be the boss of a "respectable" religious organization that focuses on basic "kind and gentle" Jesus stuff, while also continuing to milk the tithepayers through the temple extortion racket.
It's a weird balance that he's trying to achieve. The temples are one of about 2 dozen ball-and-chain weights wrapped around the church's ankles that make it virtually impossible for the church to morph into something sane and respectable.
You got your stupid "Book of Mormon" ball and chain.
Then the Joseph Smith as sexual predator and con man ball and chain.
Then there's the Brigham Young as sexual predator, con man and mafia boss ball and chain.
The funny underwear ball and chain.
The Book of Abraham as obviously fake scripture ball and chain.
The Prophets and Apostles as uninspired frauds who can easily be bamboozled by a low-life document forger...ball and chain.
I guess Nelson's agenda is sort of working in a holding pattern kind of way for the time being. There are still a lot of old timers who are straining hard to pretend that their former belief system is being dismantled right under their feet, piece by piece. But they have no where else to go. When you're in the last 2 or 3 decades of life and have invested everything into a fraud, you don't want to face up to that.
But the Mormonism that we all knew growing up is doomed. There may be something that comes after and purports to be its continuation, but it's not really going to be the same thing. The "sell by" date has already passed. The product is still on the shelf, but its removal is just a matter of time. I'll give it a couple of decades more at the most. Then if I'm still around, I may try to buy one or two of those then-derelict temples at a bargain price.
Wally Prince Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- >. > There are still a lot of old timers who are > straining hard to pretend that their former belief > system is being dismantled right under their feet, > piece by piece.
--> Correction: There are still a lot of old timers who are > straining hard to pretend that their former belief > system is NOT being dismantled right under their feet, > piece by piece.
The church is very top heavy. They are supporting [paying] many people and their families. It is a heavy duty bureaucracy of a shrinking living people's church. It's only a matter of time when the missionary department is streamlined, if not gutted. A lot of those 70's will have to go. All of this will be faith promoted as the on-going restoration.
I really don't know what is going to keep the youth aboard. There is little fun and diversion. The promise of a mysterious afterlife is no longer working. Some of the youth may have parents that can't afford to pay a full tithe and there may be others that do not attend regularly or say no to callings. The youth are smart and realize that a person isn't going to fall into the earth or eaten alive for not doing what the church says.
I think the next move will involve a change to the missionary program. I think they will reduce and reorganize missions and their boundaries; maybe offer more service/humanitarian ones. And maybe reset all mission lengths to 18 months; with options for 6, 9 and 12 months.
I think that the perk of being a mission president is greater than the desire to have missionaries in the field. So I'm not sure how they will balance that equation.
After watching official training videos/films, you sort of develop an idea that the church's bureaucracy is organized into departments and committees. However, I don't think there is a giant flow chart/schematic that accurately details what each person does and how they interact and where there's Q15 oversight. Remember that there was the discovery of the church's notorious Strengthening the Members Committee and the church flat out denied that such a committee even existed, but later acknowledged it. I don't think the church leaders want a detailed report of how churchco really operates. We just have to guess.
I've shared how I ruffled the church's membership and financial departments by using the wrong mailer. I got a series of letters from Brother "Bob". lol