I found genealogy boring. I could care less if I am a descendant of King whoever or Marie Antoinette. I'm just throwing names out there. WHO CARES???? I knew my grandparents and they were all good people. I know my parents and they were good people. That's all I need to know about.
If we believed in reincarnation (which I don't), then we'd never meet our ancestors that died before we were born anyway, so what's the point?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2019 01:25AM by cl2.
Most of my relatives take pride in it. I used to when I was a try-hard TBM. Now I don't see it as anything to be proud of and, after learning more history, it can be a bit embarrassing.
But I don't judge the guy too harshly. He may have been a product of his times and circumstances. He may have known less about Joseph Smith's real history than we currently do. He may have been someone who was just trying to make sense of the bewildering fog of the human condition like the rest of us and found himself going far down the odd path that Joseph Smith created before he could figure out what was what.
Our ancestors aren't us. Their genes may have some influence, but that's a crap shoot. Even in the same nuclear family, you can find all kinds among siblings, for better or worse.
Boasting about a famous or successful ancestor is just an attempt to borrow unearned glory. It's the stuff of hereditary nobility and monarchy, where spoiled brats and degenerates do their best to perpetuate a system that allows them to lord over better people based solely on their bloodline.
And often, if you ever get the chance to dig deeply, you find that most of the "greatness" of past "great people" was just a lot of propaganda and PR. Often they were just a product of their circumstances, rather than being the creator of their circumstances.
I have a friend whose great-great grandmother went to Utah as a Mormon in the 1850s, then escaped to California in the 1860s.
The friend moved to Utah about 9 months ago. Is moderately amused by the world of Mormonism.
I suggest to her that if anyone asks her about her about her religious status that she puff up her shoulders and say “my relatives left the Mormon church 4 generations ago!” Or “my family has been out of the church for four generations!”
Things are trending against LDS, Inc. might as well take pride of ownership in exmormon status, and turn the game around on pretentious Mormons.
(Slight thread drift, but relevant!).
RG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2019 06:39AM by reinventinggrace.
My TBM MIL, being a convert, does not claim to be a descendant of any Mormon pioneers; though she has traced her ancestors straight back to Adam & Eve, of which she is very proud.
She considers it a consolation prize since she was unable to confirm that one of her ancestors was a Mormon pioneer and that she was the one to bring the family back into the fold after some faithless ancestor left the church.
She's proud of being descended from "Adam & Eve"? But then she must also believe that you and everyone else is descended from them as well.
Maybe you can point out to her that had they in fact existed, being one of their descendants is the world's least exclusive club. What's there to be proud of?
She's never made these claims to me herself, but I've heard them through both my wife and her sister.
I have resolved that, should she ever say it in my presence, I would tell her that, per her belief in Genesis, we are all direct descendants of Adam & Eve and that it is not of note.
I take pride in my ancestors being able to tame a wild land. I take pride in my ancestors developing new strains of fruit trees that are better adapted to cold climates.
I don't stop though at "pioneers"
I take pride in ancestors that fought in the revolutionary war, that settled in Plymouth and Jamestown.
I take pride in sea captains, merchants, farmers and ranchers. Soldiers and exploreres and fur trappers. Doctors, artists and scientists.
I even give a sly nod and a wink to outlaws and cattle rustlers.
I look back to the founding of the family name won in battle 700 years ago.
It is unfortunate that so many stop at 1830 and don't look as far back as they can.
Being from a solid mormon family, I lived in SLC from age 0-4, when my mother left my father, took me to Seattle to start a new life.
In SLC, my last name would be considered "old money" or "old SLC", like Denny, Nordstrom, Boeing, McCall and Wright are here in Seattle. Everybody knows those names and when you hear one, you ask "related?". Here in Seattle, nobody does (unless they are a member or a strong history fan), but when I venture near the Wasnatch Front, I start hearing "any relation?" and I always answer "yes, but not close enough for it to do me any good".
I've often thought that I'd make a killing in Real Estate with the last name on sign posts, but then I'd have to live in Salt Lake City, so I'll be poor and happier.
Although I am grateful for my ancestors and what they accomplished, I have to admit my view of them is a little more realistic now. For the most part, they were products of their time - credulous folks wanting to believe there was a better place with more resources. In some ways they may have been right. I guess the religion gave them the reason they needed to leap.
A lot of them did seem to be credulous misfits with nothing to lose with little education. They were victims in a way, but also victims of being human. Many had not been born into situations with a lot of resources or opportunity.
When one is attempting to appear to be superior to others, one will use anything in their means to accomplish this social triumph they see in their little Mormon minds. The dead are so useful to Mormons in so many ways.
I'm a descendant of a woman who was a little 5 year old orphan in a handcart group. She came with her parents from England by ship and her parents died at sea and were buried at sea. Relatives from New York waited for her and took her in. They then went to Ohio and then westward with the handcart companies. She didn't have any control over her circumstances, but her relatives did and I'm glad they did; they settled in Utah and while Utah has some drawbacks such as being the headquarters of TSCC, it's still a beautiful place to live. It's an outdoors' paradise, no matter what the season is.
My parents were converts, and had no pioneer heritage. During the 4 decades that I was in the cult, I had to endure the endless testiphonies of Mormons in my various wards who had pioneer heritage. They would get up, cry their lil brains out about their great great great departed Grandfather Shitforbrains who was asked by Breedom Young to colonize Cultville in southern Utard...(blah blah blah)." It's almost as if they were there and part of it. Hmmmk..crazy f'ers.
If "endurance" and toughness is something to be celebrated, than I should be celebrated for being tough enough to withstand the incessant cry baby Mormons who polluted my ear space with their sob stories of pioneers ancestors. It was endless torture for my soul - emotionally. I am a hero for enduring this. Thank you in advance for your celebration of me.
I think they are adored because of the great difficulty and work they accomplished in just 40 years. Think about it, our roads, plumbing, farms, food all year long, cattle, medicine and clinics, schools, factories. None of this was here when it was just Indians. I think we should look at what it was that made one culture do so much better than another and we should adopt those practices.
I must object to the phrase, "None of this was here when it was just Indians."
I have more respect for the Native Americans of that day than the pioneers who shoved them off their land, killed them, blamed them for MMM and put glass in the flour they gave to the Timpanogos.
Oh..OMG..I have a great idea for Mormons. Instead of spouting and bragging about their Pioneer heritage in almost all Mormons gatherings and meetings...why not take one day of the year, and celebrate their Pioneerism in one swoop. It could be like an entire production, even a parade, if you will.
That way, they could get it out of their systems, and not have to incessantly bring up week after week.
Had to re-enjoy your statement from earlier this morning:
"...I had to endure the endless testiphonies of Mormons in my various wards who had pioneer heritage. They would get up, cry their lil brains out about their great great great departed Grandfather Shitforbrains who was asked by Breedom Young to colonize Cultville in southern Utard...(blah blah blah)." It's almost as if they were there and part of it. Hmmmk..crazy f'ers.
Now, related to that, a serious question. It seems to me that Mormons revere their polygamous forebears, but keep current (late 20th to 21st Century) polygamists at arms length. I'd like to hear what others have to say about this, plus any interesting anecdotes they may have about contemporary Mormons relations with polygamists.
Not to down play pioneers in any way shape or form....they weren't all mormon, however....
I think it's a form mormon martyrdom. They pride themselves on sacrificing everything, even unto death. I've seen it in many mormons, young, old, missionaries, etc.
So any mormon that has an ancestor that followed a manipulating, perverted, murderous cult leader across the the wilderness and suffered the most hideous ordeals along the way, even unto death, has something to be proud of in their mind.
The problem I see is the mormon claim to a direct link with god. All god would have had to do was whisper "boil your water" in the prophets ear and mormons would have done far better. But they have no direct link to success via god, so they take pride in the failures.
Roy G Biv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > All god would have had to do was > whisper "boil your water" in the prophets ear and > mormons would have done far better.
God did say that but Joseph Smith heard, "Spoil her daughter."
Roy G Biv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think it's a form mormon martyrdom. They pride > themselves on sacrificing everything, even unto > death. I've seen it in many mormons, young, old, > missionaries, etc. > > So any mormon that has an ancestor that (crossed) the the wilderness and suffered the most > hideous ordeals along the way, even unto death, > has something to be proud of in their mind.
My great, great something grandfather was an adopted son of Brigham Young and according to family history did some pretty challenging stuff at the behest of old Brigham. Now, I don't know and likely never will know whether great, great, something grandfather was in on Brigham's con or if he was duped and really believed.
Apparently, being adopted by the prophet was a church ordinance that was done back then but is no longer practiced. Otherwise, maybe Oaks and Ballard might be adopted son's of the prophet, even Russell M. Nelson.
Shinehah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Apparently, being adopted by the prophet was a > church ordinance that was done back then but is no > longer practiced.
Yeah, now being someone's bitch doesn't require temple work.