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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:00PM

My four year old daughter and I spent this last weekend with my VERY TBM parents. We were on neutral turf in a city where none of us live, but, of course, my parents attended church on Sunday.


My mom asked my daughter if she wanted to go, and my daughter's response was, "What's church?"


My mom explained that its a place where we go to worship Heavenly Father and Jesus, and my daughter, still very confused, asked, "What's Jesus?"


Being BIC, at four I'm sure I could have rattled off all sorts of canned answers that would have made my mother glow with pride. I think at that age I knew some of the easier Articles of Faith, had given several talks in Primary, and could sing most of the Junior Primary songs unprompted.


I'm so thankful for the better life I'm giving my daughter. Instead of Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam we sing the Eagles and George Strait and Eye of the Tiger. On Sundays we go to parks and museums and have FUN. We read good books (not boring fiction like the BOM and the Bible). My kid is kind and loving and smart -- all without any belief in a god.


I don't know how many generations my family has been in the Church, but some go back to the very beginning with Joseph Smith. I'm happy that I'm the "pioneer" who is breaking this cycle of brainwashing.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:44PM

The Devil must really have his hooks in you because mom and dad pray as they've never prayed before and still you and your daughter won't come in from out of the cold.

Hopefully, if they keep buying books that the GAs put out, they will learn of some trick that will work to get you back where you belong.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 09:06PM

Ah, elderolddog, you do sound just like my mother! She tells me every time we talk that she's praying that I will make better choices and return to the fold because deep down inside I know it's true and she raised me better than this. She's also a great purchaser of any book by a GA. As a kid we had classics such as "The Miracle of Forgiveness" on our bookshelves and I was required to read the Book of Mormon aloud every morning while my mom drove me to school, from 6th grade through my senior year.

My mom shouldn't have raised such a smart kid if she wanted 100% success rate with devout children (she only has 2 out of 3, and that certainly isn't good enough for her.)

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 01:11PM

Our neighbors raised their twin boys the same way as you. Around age 11 they were at a church to give a 4H talk. One of the boys thought the church was cool because it had a Jacuzzi up front.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 09:08PM

I think that's fantastic! Jacuzzi nights would have been much more fun than the brainwashing nights otherwise known as Mutual.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 04:38AM

Some of the best conversations with my parents were when they would take turns driving me to school. How sad that the stupid BPM nonsense took the place of that opportunity for you.

I miss the art of conversation. I loved sitting in my living room, talking with my parents and siblings about life, science, adventures, relationships, the world, good books, movies, and humor. This is what makes a family close, not the Mormon church. When the Mormons tried to push more "family home evening" onto us, with a MANUAL, my (religious TBM) parents set a boundary. No one was going to tell them what we should talk about! Mom and Dad just laughed, and said that every night was family home evening at our house.

I'm sure you are very close to your four-year-old, because you are giving her unconditional love, and raising her in Truth, and not allowing a sick cult to tell you how to raise her.

I'm sure your TBM family will talk about your daughter's "not-knowing" for a long time, but, ask yourself if your TBM family knows what unconditional love is.

No matter what happens, your little girl will soon know more than your parents will ever know.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 10:47PM

I've never been able to have a real conversation with my mother, and it makes me sad. I strive to be a better mother than the one I had. She is very over reactive, and any little thing she disapproves of results in a rant about what I did wrong -- from what I ate for lunch to who I hang out with to what I do on Sundays. Given the chance to do it over, I'd still read the BOM in the car rather than face her judgement.


I was, however, blessed to have another woman in my life who I think of as my other mother. She is the one that would answer my hard questions. My teenage years would have been a disaster without her. I'm so thankful for her every day, and sad that I can't share things with my own mother. I've been around long enough to know that you can't change another person, and she will always be as she is. Being TBM just made it worse.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 05:16AM

Congratulations, Westernwillows! I too was taught religion (not LDS) as a child and later decided not to do the same to my children. The results (now 31, 29 and 23) have been spectacular, like yours. Surprisingly ;-), if you don't fill their heads with nonsense, they seem to seek knowledge to take its place.

Who'da thunk it?

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 10:48PM

The world is a wonderful place! So much to learn, so much to do. Why waste it sitting in church? I'd much rather spend my Sundays in a museum.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 09:48AM

I'm sure mine is.

I type a hospital in Canada and, lately, I've been doing palliative care reports and you wouldn't believe how many people have no religious affiliation and want no "end of life" care from a religious person. They are way ahead of us in this department.

I didn't know much of anything except stories from primary when I was 4 years old. My parents may have discussed church, but never talked about the book of mormon. We had prayer at meals and we had a nightly prayer, which was more just bless everyone.

I can say this just as something that was funny in the family. My dad for some reason would always call my little sister to give the prayer at dinner. He'd look around the table and always end up on her. It went on for so long and he didn't even notice, that we would all start giggling when he'd call on her again, and then he just kept doing it to make her throw a little fit and she still had to say it.

My parents were failures at raising good little mormons. Most of us are out. Only my daughter, of all things, is a mormon of all their grandkids and great grandkids. Two of the siblings go, but one is disabled and my sister doesn't believe much of it, but goes. Her husband likes her to. She refuses to live in Utah because of the mormons. None of her friends are mormons.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 09:50AM by cl2.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 10:51PM

So far I'm the only one in my family out. When I was 6, my dad had the chance to get all of us kids out, and instead he went the other way from inactive to totally TBM (now in the bishopric and hating it, but believes it is a "calling" from god). If he outlives my mom, I wonder if he'll stay in or if he'll slowly work his way out. I'd love if both my brothers left too, but one is a true believer and the other is a financial advisor who gets TONS of clients from his ward, so staying in benefits him. Maybe someday. We're still young.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 05:00PM

When my daughter was 4, we were at my TBM parents for a weekend visit. My dad asked my son, who was 7 to say a blessing on the food. My son looked at me with a puzzled look, so I explained to my dad that we don't pray in our house so my son didn't really know how to do it.

Right then, my daughter speaks up and say's she'll say the prayer! My dad was good with it so I told her to go ahead.

We all bow heads and close eyes (except my son) and my daughter started praying......"dashing through the snow, in a one horse open slay......"

We all laughed and even my TBM parents thought it was very cute. Dad then said the food prayer.....and my name went on the temple prayer roll.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 10:52PM

I love this!


I know my name is on the temple roll. Since I don't believe it has any magical powers, I shouldn't be offended, but I am, a little bit. I'm learning to let it go. Even though I don't believe in any "god" like they teach in Sunday School, I still think that prayer can be an act of compassion, if done right. Temple rolls, not so much.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: November 08, 2019 10:45AM

>> "I still think that prayer can be an act of compassion, if done right. Temple rolls, not so much."

I agree, a prayer for a persons well being, whatever well being that may be, can be an act of love intended to bring comfort to their soul.

Putting someones name on the temple prayer role is an act of selfishness intended to control someones soul, no matter what kind of well being they may actually need.

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