what to do and not do in all aspects of their life? How can they be so happy turning over their thinking to such arrogant dip sticks like the Top 15?

I know lots have left LDS, Inc. over the years because they have learned the truth. Yet so many either ignore the facts, refuse to even listen and won't even read the facts. Some even read it and don't care how horrible or illogical Mormonism is. They just hang onto it like a baby hangs onto his blankey.

Can anyone out there explain this phenomenon? I saw it with Jim and Tammy Baker. Those two were as far out as it gets yet they still had a devoted following even after the prison term for fraud.

Some of the people I thought would be the first to leave are still hanging on and defending Mormonism. And some I thought would never leave have ditched it.

Maybe I need to study neuropsychology.

I think it has to do with how we're wired. My wife fully enjoys getting a list of things to do, doing them, and checking off the tasks. I don't enjoy that at all.

I enjoy creating the list, coming up with what needs to be done and how to do it. She doesn't enjoy that at all.

I'd rather design the airplane than fly it...she'd rather fly it than design it.

Some prefer developing what needs to be done, some prefer being told how to do it. People that prefer being told tend to gravitate to something that's telling them what to do.

Another thing is, some people don't know what to do and are hoping for someone to tell them. That was my TBM dad.

The hard one is the person that doesn't know what to do AND they refuse to do what they are told. Seen a few of them here in the past.

I think there is something attractive about shutting your brain off and being ignorant in a fantasy bubble your whole life i guess. Like a kid that never wants to leave disneyland or something. They feel safe if they have another human or superior telling them what to do. Its why some people like bosses in the workforce. I can only handle a boss in the workforce for so long because it reminds me of being in a cult except i am getting paper(money) for putting up with the boss. Hence i have to be an independant contractor or i go insane with the 9-5 with a superior(boss) model.

You want to be matter unorganized. Humans tend towards matters being organization into hierarchies.

In my opinion it isn't "being told" but belonging to a we, connection to "the other," and life lived in conjunction with something greater than self.

If religion has taught us anything it is that these things are seen as important. Much hard to do is to buck these desires and go it alone.

Part of it is that people tend not to like admitting they were wrong. Instead of admitting a mistake and learning from it, they would rather keep making that mistake until it "works out." They forget that most of the time (at least in my experience) the mistake is more likely to blow up in your face than work out.

Another part of it is that humans are social creatures. We try to stay in the herd or pack because it makes us feel safe. Maybe part of it goes back to before our ancestors became bipedal; easier to survive as a group than alone.

And maybe part of it is, as much as it sickens me to think about, some people WANT to be told what to do. No having to think about the consequences of your words or actions, no moral dilemmas, no guilt ("I was just following orders"), just listen to the leader and feel the bliss.

People enjoy being told to do all the time. They conform. They think we should all accept our leaders, wear clothes or get oppressive jobs.

The true warrior finds their own path. And the paths are many.

I think that people do not have a trust in themselves. They believe other people's opinions of them. They believe that other people are somehow superior in wisdom and insight to themselves.

With the Mormon Q15, I don't think I've ever seen such a bunch of uninspired administrators. Why these men are put on a pedestal is a mystery to me. They are just business people and professionals who are running a corporation. Other people write their speeches for them. There is no evidence that they are particularly kind or insightful people.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2019 09:55AM by summer.

You see it. Mormons don’t. They have on blinders. When I was TBM, it never occurred to me to question the leaders. What sense would that make? They speak for God, you follow. That’s how it works.

It reminds me of kids from North Korea who are asked to write an essay. They can’t. The concept of having their own thoughts is alien to them. https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-12-29/art-essay-writing-brainwashed

This essay on authoritarianism might help explain.

https://theauthoritarians.org/Downloads/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

There are authoritarian leaders, but there are also authoritarian followers. They believe it's good and right to have someone at the top with unquestioned authority telling everyone else what to do.

Thanks! You've given me something to sink my teeth into.

John Dean! Who knew?

I believed that if I did everything they told me to do, that nothing bad would happen to me. Well, we know how that worked out.

I see my daughter doing the same thing.

I just wanted life to be okay, not a lot of pain and suffering.

They tell us that if we do it their way, that is what will happen. Then when something bad happens, then we did it wrong in some fashion. Still trying to figure out what I did wrong exactly. Well, no I'm not still trying to figure it out. I know what I did wrong. I LISTENED TO THEM.

Even if my life hasn't been perfect since I left mormonism, it sure is a hell of a lot better than it was while I was in mormonism.

I was a bad Mormon from the start because the missionaries never told me that I had to blindly obey. They tell you that much later. They wait to tell you lots of stuff until you're in it awhile.

It wasn't so hard to believe in Joseph Smith because he was long dead and things had changed but believing that the milk delivery man, who was also our bishop, knew more about what I should do with my life than I did was laughable. I couldn't believe people actually believed that just holding the priesthood gave a person magical powers. I thought of it as an organizational position rather than omnipotence.

I told one Mormon that I'd never practice polygamy.(I thought that part of history was long gone anyway). He replied, "Not even if the prophet told you to?" I replied, "Not even if God came down and told me to. God could toast me if he wanted but he couldn't make me do anything I didn't want to do. That would make me a slave." That guy nearly fainted.

I always thought I was that way because I was a convert who had not been indoctrinated from birth but I know some converts that were converted later in life than I was and they still hold onto that crutch of obedience they like to call the Iron Rod.

Don't you feel like shaking some of them until they wake up? So many of my friends have passed up great marriage partners because they weren't Mormon. And so many hard working people with nothing to retire on and disabled children are paying 10% to a mega corporation. I just get so frustrated with how cowed they are.

Sad thing is is that we weren't sure what we believed anymore after what we went through with the lds leaders before we got married. I'm going to assume you know my story. We talked a lot about our issues with the lds church and then went inactive when our kids were 7 years old. She went back to the lds church at age 20 because a guy she was dating and really liked told her that he wanted a wife who had a testimony.

Myself, I was always a rule follower. Still am. I lived in fear of not doing everything right. I was one of the last to leave the church in my family, but I left it NOT BELIEVING. I had a very authoritarian dad and life was easier if I did what he said. I've always been one of those who goes along to get along no matter the cost and it has cost me a lot in my life. Of all things, my dad thought for himself and wasn't very active mormon. And then he wondered what happened when a lot of his kids left the church including his grandchildren.

I never would have left if I hadn't run into life experience. I had many people tell me that they wouldn't have done what I did just because leaders told them to even if that is what we were taught growing up.

As my therapist says, he and I tested mormonism to its limits and it failed us.

What I find especially funny is that my cousin's husband (who is now an MP) was kidnapped in Chihuahua, Mexico, when he was there on business a few years back. He wrote a book about his experience and I read it. Gave it to my daughter to read. I even read the mormon parts, the praying and blessings he received from going through what he did, etc., and I then gave it to my daughter to read. Someone who is so over the top TBM and she told me, "I just skipped those parts. I thought they were too mormony." I was like, "HUH?" There is hope for her yet.

Some people like being told what to do because they are in denial.

When in denial, you follow all the rules and orders, when things go wrong, you just blame it on others, it isn't your fault.

You have no worries and sleep like a baby.

Bc thinking is hard! A lot easier to have someone else do the thinking and not have to worry that you got it wrong.

I think the majority of Mormons don't think they're being told what to do at all. The craftiness of Mormonism is such that it gets members to think that they're choosing the rules of Mormonism for themselves. There's a lot of talk about agency and praying to know if what leaders say and do is inspired, etc.

It's not until you step back and think about the dire consequences waiting for you if you leave the church that you realize that it has a hold on you. Sure, you can quit "choosing" the church and its rules, but you might lose your spouse, family, friends, job, etc.

<<<<<I think the majority of Mormons don't think they're being told what to do at all.>>>>>


I remember my conscience getting the best of me when I could no longer say those words "I know this church is true". The cognitive dissonance kept telling me that I only believed it was true and it was false to say I knew it to be true. I even gave my testimony one Sunday about how I just could not say I knew any longer because that would be impossible. But I did believe it. Boy, did the ward come down on me. They weren't exactly angry but frustrated that I would no longer say I knew. I didn't really feel any different about Mormonism. I just couldn't get those fake words out of my mouth.

I remember discovering that my mind had been twisted up in knots. That’s the only way you can make Mormonism seem internally self consistent.