So the second annointing is supposed to mean you are guaranteed Celestial glory. You've earned your way to heaven.

But, I have never ever heard anyone in a church setting speak of it. Or hint to it.

The only place I ever hear of it is from exmormons. Is this legit, or is this just a playful fantasy to make fun of the cronyism in the church?

Also being guaranteed heaven, isn't that what the rest of Christianity already believes they have?

so that was mildly surprising and vague.

Sent me to wikipedia.

Something about it all just seems unbelievable.

Like your wife annointing and blessing you at home... that just seems so un-mormon.

Well, it's a mormon website! Did you expect them to be clear, concise, convincing?

My point was to show you that they at least acknowledge what I call The Second Annoying, that it is more than myth.

Since we probably both agree that it was entirely made-up, probably in aid of getting Joe Smith laid, there really can't be any great body of knowledge supporting it.

Had Joe's life not been cut short, we might have had a Third Annoying, maybe a sort of group/grope anointing, with the sure sign of the nailed!

Hahahahahahaha oh i needed that laugh.

The more i learn the weirder it gets. Whats next? Jumping jacks naked for the third annointing. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

At the risk of muddying the humor, the 2A finished the project.

When JS encountered masonry, he saw a system with three main levels: apprentice, fellowcraft and master mason. He called this the proper temple structure, derived from antiquity and in need of Mormon restoration.

So he recreated the masonic order. Baptism makes a person an apprentice, the endowment transforms him into a journeyman, and the second anointing makes a person a master.

JS was a syncretist, an amalgamator; so little of what he did was truly original.

Listening now... He is talking about going to the temple and expecting to possibly meet the savior face to face. And hiding why he was there from other people at the temple.


No wonder the leadership is so elitist. They honestly think they are perfect, don't they?

this is crazy.

My mind is blown.

There is also Mysteries of Godliness, a short volume by Buerger.

He didn't know how common the ritual is today, so the accounts by Philips and Mattson and others are both direct testimony and a good update on the older written material.

A number of participants on this board either know, or think they have reason to know, that relatives have received the 2A.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> There is also Mysteries of Godliness, a short
> volume by Buerger.

Great book. Highly recommended.

All I know is my area seventy brother and his wife flew in to town and went to the SL Temple on a Sunday, wouldn't say anything about it and came up to my parents house after looking like the cat that ate the canary. Suddenly acting very magnanimous and sanctimonious.

I had already read Tom Phillips account, and, I had also known about it since I was a kid and our Priest's teacher who was studying to be an institute teacher told us about it. AT that time he indicated that it was incredibly rare, nearly unheard of --unlike today where there are many people in the Second Annointing Club as the Mile High Club.

Buerger says that the 2A largely fell out of usage and at one point McKay (IIRC) complained that even some GAs hadn't received it.

If that is correct, and I believe it is, the church must have re-emphasized the ordinance, for it appears that now people routinely receive it around the SP-MP level. What D&D says therefore makes perfect sense.

No joke. The church strongly discourages any discussion or mention of it. Can't have the plebes aware that a golden ticket is available for the glorious leaders and high tithepayers, which free pass will never be given to the plebes.

Regular TR-holding mormons think they're already in the inner circle, but to learn there's an even more inner circle that they're not part of? Even TBMs may feel some resentment over that, which may get them to thinking before reflexively squashing it down. Revolutions are born of such resentment, which terrifies the church.

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

It is a thing. I received it.

Would you have any notion, any feelings, about the cost of The Second Annoying, you know, overall?

Most of what I learned about temple practices I gleaned from RFM. My parents never spoke a work about the voodoo rituals they participated in at the temple(s) they attended....and I never went after my dead dunking performance.

The ramping up of the second anointing was a "Godsend" to the Gerontocracy as a way to stop the hemorrhaging of elite members.

The jewel is that for the first time the women anoint the men. Makes the woman finally feel more than just the help meet. They have thrown her a badly wanted bone. This makes her primary wife as well. This is huge for the women and for solidifying the three-way marriage---man & woman,& Mormon Church. Sucked in all the way. Soon to be a marriage of thousands in the CK.

The man's ego is not just fed but served a banquet. An apostle washing your feet? Now that is dessert. Forget the carrot cake or the Pecan Pie with whipped cream. An apostle washed your feet!

Clever this.

The 2A was part of an incipient process that the church killed when JS died.

There were a few things that died then. We know that JS gave the priesthood to a couple of black men and that he promised celestial exaltation to a black woman. It was only with BY that the ban on black people enjoying the priesthood and the temple became law.

In his last years JS was also opening the priesthood to women. He promised the Relief Society that they would enjoy the full range of powers and rights and allowed them to anoint and heal one another. Then, in the temple, he gave them the priesthood they needed to anoint their husbands. BY and the others cracked down on the women outside of the temple, but they did not mess with the 2A, which was too sacred. So the woman's role in that ordinance stands today as a memorial to JS's original, more expansive vision of the priesthood and its powers.

SixAM Wrote:
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> So the second annointing is supposed to mean you
> are guaranteed Celestial glory. You've earned
> your way to heaven.
>
> But, I have never ever heard anyone in a church
> setting speak of it. Or hint to it.

- That's because they make a promise during the ceremony to never to reveal or acknowledge that they have earned their reward- election is sure. Heck, they are not supposed to tell their own children, family and friends.

-How do they get away with this?

They do it on Sundays. It works because the active, faith believing members are where they are supposed to be: at their ward meetinghouses or stake centers. Even if they were to be spotted by a member, the leaders could always say - we had to stop by the temple to check on something. Lying for the lord is never a sin to them.

> The only place I ever hear of it is from
> exmormons. Is this legit, or is this just a
> playful fantasy to make fun of the cronyism in the
> church?
>
- We talk about it here at RFM because it partially explains why church leaders act and behave differently than your run-of-the-mill member trying his/her own best to emulate christ.

Slightly OT, but the preamble to the FAIRMo' article should be a huge clue to anyone with a brain that this NOT a Christian church, but a Christ-fanfiction cult:

"Important note: Members of FairMormon take their temple covenants seriously. We consider the temple teachings to be sacred, and will not discuss their specifics in a public forum."

"...temple teachings to be sacred..."!? This is not just a WWJD item, this is a WTF WWJD item. He would not condone "something so sacred you couldn't talk about it", that is antithetical to the message of Christianity.

A cult, on the other hand.......

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
How appropriate, our Chicknen N. Backpacks should come up with:

> article should be a huge clue to anyone with a
> brain that this NOT a Christian church, but a
> Christ-fanfiction cult:
>
And now, the gravy, creamy and rich, ladle it on thick!
>
> This is not just a WWJD item, this is a WTF WWJD item. He
> would not condone "something so sacred you
> couldn't talk about it", that is antithetical to
> the message of Christianity.
>
Bravo, C.N.Bp. Are you a writer? If not, consider submitting an op-ed to your local paper on an issue you're concerned about. Should be good!

"Christ fan-fiction cult!" Dead on and tickled me, that.

Made me think that there seems to be a whole team now of "super heroes" like Russ and Wendy who got their own "spin-offs" from the original Jesus Show and are vying for their own top ratings.

Is Bednar the new "Rhoda?"

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He would not condone "something so sacred you
> couldn't talk about it", that is antithetical to the message of Christianity.

But: Jesus uses parables so that the meaning will be hidden (Matt
11:25, 13:10-15, Mark 4:11-12, Luke 8:10; cf Isa 6:9-10)

"According to prominent 20th-century Latter-day Saint Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, those who have their calling and election made sure "receive the more sure word of prophecy, which means that the Lord seals their exaltation upon them while they are yet in this life.…[T]heir exaltation is assured."

No one seems to get what this "Second Annointing" really amounts to -- IT'S AN INDULGENCE -- if your exaltation is truly "assured" you can do WHATEVER you want in the meantime!

Knowing Joseph Smith it may well have given him a "Sex License" that he could grant to himself and to others as he pleased. If everyone is guaranteed the best place in heaven, why worry about mortal rules anymore?

"Go ahead -- You're home free now -- do whatever you please!"

Even Bruce R. McConkie agrees!

I've heard that 'even 2A ppl' lose their ticket if they commit murder,

I'm too Fing lazy to research that, I'm watching the Final Round of Jeopardy!!

It's "sin against the HG" that invalidates the 2A. Not really clear if that includes murder, but Tom Philips and others think that publicized apostasy meets the standard.

He will therefore be waiting for you and me when we enter Outer Darkness.

Yes, Lot's Wife, I "will be waiting for you and me when we enter Outer Darkness". That is, of course, if it's true, which it isn't.

Let me emphasise some of the things learned from my SA:-

The Savior does not appear to you, neither at the SA nor afterwards.

You can commit any sin you like, except deny the holy ghost,and get to the celestial kingdom. If you deny the holy ghost you go to Outer Darkness. Even Adolf Hitler gets a kingdom of glory, the telestial kingdom.

You can live as long as you like.

You are ordained to become a member of a Godhood.

An apostle washes your feet.

Your wife gives you a blessing.

I was so surprised the first time I read your account of the S.A.
It was like another nail in a coffin that now has more nails than wood.


As a young priest, our teacher who was studying to be an Institute teacher--this is the early sixties-- and was studying all the odd stuff in Mormon history which wasn't being covered up yet, told us about having your "Calling and Election Made Sure" which I take to be the same as the Second Anointing.

He never described it as an ordinance, didn't go into much detail after mentioning it, except he gave the impression that is was a visit from the Holy Ghost who knew you inside and out that was so strong that you knew you were going to the CK no matter what. We were left to believe that perhaps it was also a visit from the very Jesus. And he did say at that time that the only thing you could do wrong after that would be to deny the Holy Ghost. And that those were the only people going to outer darkness. Thus, Calling and Election Made Sure for sure.

So what was shocking to me was not only that the SA is an increasingly common ordinance, but that those receiving it are actually asked to recommend someone else.

Holy Ghost is just about out of the picture all together in Mormonism. Who needs the HG to whisper in your ear when you have Russ and Bednar and Oaks in your face? Or washing your feet.

Don't take the last remnants of my faith, please.

I already have a T-shirt that reads "Decades in a Stupid Cult but at least I got to meet Tom in Outer Darkness."

My nevermo son looks extraordinarily like the western ideal of Jesus. He gets told this, all the time, by strangers. He thinks he looks way more like a wookie, actually, but yeah, even I think he looks pretty close to the general concept. I tell him if it bothers him, a shave and a haircut ought to do it but he says the look is important to his post-grunge aesthetic. He was approached by some local folks at one of his band gigs around Christmas of '18 and asked if he was interested in acting the princely role in their Easter passion play, which is kind of a big attraction in the community every year.

"I'm a musician, not an actor," he told them.

"You've so got the look," they pressed. "We can teach you the acting, and you already know all the key history."

"Not really," he confessed. "I was raised non-religious and I'm not even a Christian."

They didn't care. The look was the key thing, they said, along with being comfortable onstage, and the role was well paying. He was pretty perturbed by this, thinking it was hypocritical that they were willing to pay an unbeliever to portray the messianic figure that the audience gives their genuine faith and love to. So he declined. A few weeks later he had to borrow money from me for the electric bill because he hadn't played enough shows to cover it. "Sorry," he said, "I probably should've sold out and done the Jesus job."

I'm thinking with this 2A thing maybe he could sell out BIG TIME. Think about it. He's NEVER been seen at a ward. They could fly him in, sneak him in the back door and boom, he appears to the anointed, who are already so fervently expecting it they probably won't notice the more wookie-like qualities and his tattoos are easily covered by a long sleeve. Stigmata aren't that hard to fake...his hands are rough, calloused from drumming and his day job as a sous chef. The faithful could have their appearance, he could utter some nebulous phrases and just walk out. Kind of like the Celestial Room where you did all that BS and got 5 mins to actually commune, it's over and feels like a dream. Isn't that what they all want?

I bet the look would be would be the key thing and the role would pay well. All he'd have to do is con some TBMs. The Big 15 do that every day and seem to be doing fine. Anyone have Rusty's private cell number?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2019 10:04AM by ptbarnum.

"I probably should've sold out and done the Jesus job."

Wow! That line says way more than just what your son was stating. That is loaded!

I could write paragraphs and paragraphs inspired by that but I won't. Maybe. It's just that so often I see religion as the easy way.

Yes, it is loaded! I thought about it a lot in the following days. I think I'm going to remind him of it. I think there's song lyrics in it if you work on it for a bit.