Posted by:
knotheadusc
(
)
Date: November 24, 2019 07:36AM
I wanted to post this separate from your thread requesting help. As Susan I/S mentioned, I've been around RfM for a long time, although I have never been LDS. My husband has dealt with an ex wife who went LDS and used the church in her parental alienation campaign. Not knowing you or your ex wife personally, I can't say if you'll deal with the same shit we've dealt with, but I thought it might be helpful to share our story as it's evolved so far and, perhaps, offer you hope. I'll try to be as brief as possible as I explain the past 20 years.
My husband Bill and I met online in November 1999. I had just started graduate school in South Carolina. He had just separated from his ex wife in Arkansas and gone back on active duty with the Army. He was living in Kansas, while Ex stayed in Arkansas with their kids. We both frequented a chat room and, after casually and platonically chatting with me for about three months, he sent me a long email explaining his situation.
At the time, I never expected to meet him offline, let alone marry him. I was surprised and dismayed by his predicament, and I knew little about Mormonism. But over Easter in 2000, while visiting my now father-in-law's home, Ex presented an ultimatum to Bill. She wanted him to admit he "hates women", get into "therapy" with his LDS bishop, and be more compliant to her way of thinking. Bill refused to make these concessions to his Ex, realizing that he wasn't a woman hater, didn't need therapy, and would one day step over the line she drew in the sand. So she presented him with papers right there in my father-in-law's house and demanded a divorce. She'd already lined up a notary, but was still shocked when he readily agreed to her conditions. She had used a kit to draw up the papers herself-- awarded herself sole legal and physical custody, as well as a very generous child support package and the house... although Bill kept paying mortgage on it for over a year after their divorce. They were officially divorced in June 2000, just in time for my birthday. They were married for just under 10 years.
My husband and his ex had converted to Mormonism in 1997. At the time, their family consisted of her son from her first marriage, who was 9 or 10 years old, and Bill's daughters, then 6 and 3. Ex had seen a family in a restaurant that seemed "special" and glowing and learned that they were LDS. She also had a friend who was Mormon and was telling her that she needed to force Bill to "rock bottom", to show him what he'd be missing if he didn't "straighten up". Ex always had complaints about Bill, although to me, he's been a wonderful husband. She was always complaining about his so-called shortcomings and blaming all of their problems on him, refusing to take any responsibility for their issues. My husband is such an empathetic man and has such a deep capacity for shame that he listened to her and believed her bullshit for much too long.
The church seemed family friendly and healthy, so Bill went along with joining. At first, it was a good place to be. The members smothered him and the rest of the family with positive regard. Bill and his ex were particularly attractive since they were what's known as "golden converts", meaning they weren't brought in by missionaries, and because there were young children. The super friendly stroking by the members is called "lovebombing" and it happens in most cults. I'm convinced that Mormonism is a cult.
The church kept Bill busy with "callings", which gave him less time to think about his failing marriage. He tried to believe in what they were teaching. He thought it could save his marriage, but Bill and the ex didn't love each other. Bill and his ex tried to get closed by getting "endowed" and "sealed for eternity" in the temple. Sealing for eternity supposedly means that he and ex are still married in the eyes of the church, even though they divorced legally. Sealing didn't help them heal their marriage.
Bill and his ex also had massive debts, and Bill wasn't making enough money working in the factories in the town in Arkansas where Ex had insisted they live. She bought a "money pit" house they couldn't afford because she thought it looked like one she'd seen in a snow globe. She spent money on carpeting, furniture, and landscaping, even though she and Bill were underemployed. Ex handled the finances, claiming she was better with money than Bill is. However, they eventually went through both bankruptcy and foreclosure, mainly because she spent Bill's pay faster than he could make it. She bought cars, Swiss Colony snacks, Disney plates (claiming she could sell them on eBay and make a lot of money), and other crap. She paid tithing and used their mortgage money on trips to the temple. And Bill, God bless him, couldn't rein her in.
Bill had been in the Army when they were first married, but decided to get out because he didn't think he would be able to advance in the Clinton era climate in the military. Also, his ex wanted him out of the Army because she was tired of having to move at the Army's behest. She wanted to call the shots. So they settled in Arkansas after Bill left active duty. He joined the National Guard, which supplemented the meager amount of money he made working in factories. Factory work didn't suit Bill, who had earned a bachelor's degree in International Relations at American University. But Ex wanted to live in Arkansas, and that was the work he could get in the town where they lived. He worked second and third shifts, which limited his ability to spend time with his kids. After four years of that, Bill got the opportunity to go back on active duty as a full time National Guardsman. He decided to take the job over Ex's objections, because it offered much better pay and benefits than he got at the factories. That opportunity to go back in the Army was a God send... just like this board has been.
Ex wasn't happy that Bill had decided to go back into the Army. She punished him for it by trying to sabotage his work. She also told people in the church about what a "monster" Bill was and church members quite predictably turned their backs on Bill. She used a Bowie knife that was part of his Army uniform as "proof" that Bill was dangerous. He had voluntarily given her the knife because she told him she was afraid he would "gut her like a deer". Ridiculous notion, but he wanted her to feel safe, so he went along with her request. That was a mistake.
I could add a lot more about the financial hell part of this story, but that would make this post even longer than it will be. You should know that Mormonism is expensive. Members are expected to tithe ten percent of their gross income and go to the temple. Those who are endowed are expected to wear the special temple garments-- underwear-- and those cost money. They also have to give freely of their time and talents to the church or else face a talking to from the bishop.
When I met Bill, he claimed to still believe in the church. He still attended meetings on Sundays. He considered himself his ex stepson's dad. Ex had gotten the boy's name changed, claiming that her first husband (whom Bill had known), was crazy and abusive. First ex paid child support for awhile, but eventually stopped when Ex effectively kicked him out of their son's life. Legally, Bill never adopted the boy, yet somehow he was using Bill's last name and calling him "Dad". Because of that, Bill paid child support for his ex stepson, even though legally, he was nothing more than his ex stepdad.
When Bill got back into the Army, he lived in a dirt cheap apartment on about $600 a month, and sent most of the rest of his money to his ex wife, who had generously awarded herself $2550 a month in child support for Bill's daughters and ex stepson. Ex let him talk to his daughters and former stepson on the phone, although she had moved her boyfriend into the house Bill was still paying for.
But then in 2001, he was transferred to the Pentagon, and he could no longer afford to pay the mortgage. Bill had massive credit card bills and his credit rating was shot. And, as you might have guessed, Bill was also in the Pentagon on 9/11 in the wedge that got hit by the plane. Fortunately, his office had been moved the week prior, otherwise he might not be alive today. Not long after 9/11, Bill went back to drinking alcohol... which inexplicably made me very happy!
Bill and I met offline for the first time in May 2001. He came to see me in South Carolina. I happen to be from Virginia, so when he moved to the Pentagon, it was easy for me to see him in person. I'd go to Virginia, or he'd come to South Carolina. After 9/11, we decided to make our relationship official. A few months after that, we got engaged. When Bill told his Ex about me, she asked if I was a member of the church. Bill said I wasn't and I had no plans to convert. She said, "You must love her very much." What she meant by that was that he was giving up the chance to go to the Celestial Kingdom by marrying a non-member. It was kind of a dig.
Next, she said that now she could tell her boyfriend they could finally get married. He had apparently proposed three times and she had refused, because she thought maybe Bill would go back to her. Since he wasn't going back, she could marry husband #3. Two months later, they were married, and two months after the wedding she was pregnant with her fourth child. Within a year, new husband was LDS and the kids were all calling him dad. Ex now has five children by three men ranging in age from 32 to 13.
My husband and I have been married 17 years as of last week. In that time, I have only met his daughters once, and that was about six months after our wedding. Ex and her brood had moved to Arizona and she was a real pain in the ass about visitation. When her work offered to send her to Washington, DC for training, she took the opportunity to drive across country with the kids (four of them at that time) and her husband. On the way back to Arizona, they stopped at my husband's dad's house in Memphis, Tennessee. Ex claimed that my husband's dad and stepmom saw her more as their daughter than my husband as their son. So she and the kids and her new husband stayed with my in-laws.
Ex had long ago cut my husband's mom out of the kids' lives, even though my MIL is a wonderful woman. Ex hates my husband's mother because MIL quickly saw through her bullshit and advised Bill to get a divorce. Why? Because at Christmas time in 1999, Ex called MIL, FIL, and Bill's stepmom and told them all that Bill was a violent, abusive pervert who hates women. And she advised my MIL not to allow Bill to spend Christmas with her. For a split second, MIL actually believed Ex, but then became very angry. So because MIL didn't jump on Ex's side, she was cut off from her grandchildren. For a long time, MIL would tell people she didn't have grandchildren because she was never allowed any contact with them.
Anyway... Ex took her sweet time getting to the DC area, which was where we were living at the time. My husband spent about 48 hours with his kids, even though he'd taken the week off of work. Ex had been very evasive about her plans, and then claimed that she had plans with the kids that would preclude most of the time Bill could see them. While the kids were with us, the girls would talk about church non-stop. They told me they kept bad thoughts out of their heads by humming hymns and church songs. I thought this was very strange, having grown up mainstream Presbyterian. I had always hated church, but the kids seemed to love it.
I got along fine with the kids. In fact, the older one's first words to me were an apology for being so "weird". She visibly relaxed when I told her we had plenty of time to get to know each other (little did I know). Later, she even gave me a big hug and called me her "other mother".
However, the younger daughter saw that we had a couple of beers in our refrigerator. She was nine years old at the time, and outraged that we would have alcohol in the house. She SLAPPED my husband across the face and accused him of being a drunk! I remember being totally shocked. If I had ever dared raise a hand to my father, he would have knocked me into the next week. Not that I think corporal punishment is a good thing, mind you, but I was really blown away at this girl's nerve. It was obvious her mother was poisoning her against Bill big time.
On the way back to Arizona, Ex, her husband, and the kids stopped in Memphis to see my FIL and his wife. We later heard that the girls had liked me and talked about me a lot. This apparently pissed off Ex, and she sent Bill an email demanding that he up his life insurance coverage to $1 million, which he couldn't do because he couldn't afford it and it would require going to another life insurance carrier. In the time he had been away from Ex, Bill had started to become more assertive. Ex took his new backbone as a threat and threatened us back. She became even more toxic, and pretty soon whenever Bill would call, the girls would be "unavailable" to talk to him, or they would simply ignore the phone.
You might be wondering why Bill didn't go to court. I wondered the same. The truth is, he was still recovering financially from their marriage. Since we were in Virginia and the kids were in Arizona, and the divorce had happened in Arkansas, fighting in court would entail a change of venue. That would require money and time off that Bill didn't have. So the kids became more and more alienated and there was little Bill could do about it.
Christmas 2004, Ex determined that we should all spend Christmas at Bill's dad's house. She decided that since she had the kids and the in-laws liked her better anyway (not true, BTW), she and her husband, their baby, Bill's daughters, and his ex stepson would stay at the in-law's house. Bill and I were expected to get a hotel room. Since we were broke and I had no desire to spend Christmas with the Ex, I stayed home and Bill went alone. He didn't tell Ex I wasn't coming, because he figured she'd cancel the trip. That was the last time he saw his daughters in person. His younger daughter refused to speak to him at all. Older daughter and former stepson spoke to him, but not in the loving way they used to.
In 2006, Ex called us for the first time. Her son was about to finish high school and wanted to leave home. She had arranged for Bill to keep paying child support until the lad was 22 years old, but the papers stipulated that Bill pay the boy directly. Ex wanted Bill to withhold the money so her son would be forced to stay in her home. Bill refused, so that was when she really went on the rampage. Bill asked her what she wasn't telling him about their daughters. She was very evasive and said they were "fine"... but they didn't like me and weren't interested in talking to Bill anymore.
Bill got really angry and sent her an email and she responded with some really ugly comments about me. By the way... I have never met Ex in person and although I've never made it a secret that I despise her, I never interfered with her child support money or her discussions with Bill. I had no effect whatsoever on her kids, since I only met them once. When Bill shared Ex's comments about me, I decided to write her back. I sent her a rather scathing email, which she proceeded to dissect and act upon. 2006 was also the year that Bill officially resigned from the church, although it took them six months to acknowledge his request and even sent a representative to our house on an Army post. The guy ended up talking to me, since Bill was away on business. It was a bizarre meeting that involved my having to drive over our lawn because the guy had blocked our parking spots. I'll probably have to write that story again for the interested. I promise it's not as long as this post is.
Then, in July of that year, just in time for Bill's 42nd birthday, she sent him a bunch of boxes of his personal items that she'd held on for six years. She also sent him photocopied letters from his daughters in which they demanded that he let their stepfather adopt them. Ex sent adoption papers to Bill, which he wisely decided to hold onto rather than sign. He could have signed them, but she wouldn't have had to file them and he'd still have to pay child support. But I would be lying if I said he didn't consider signing for the briefest of moments, because things had really gotten bad.
Bill continued to talk to his ex stepson until 2009, when I inadvertently discovered that he had filed a motion in court to reclaim his original surname. Bill wasn't upset that the lad was changing his name. He never should have had his name changed, and he should not have been denied access to his father. Bill realized that Ex's first husband had not been abusive or crazy; he was just victimized the way Bill was being victimized. What upset Bill was that the kid was going behind his back to change his name. He was still getting "child support" from Bill, even though he was 21 years old. So Bill told the kid that since he was changing his name, that was the sign that he was adult enough to pay his own bills. This was a hitch Ex and ex stepson hadn't been anticipating and it made things pretty dramatic. However, it ultimately made things easier for us.
As the girls turned 18, Bill decided to stop paying child support. He tried to contact his older daughter by sending her a restricted letter with information about how to get her child support, but unbeknownst to us, Ex moved the family from Arizona to New Hampshire. So the letter was sent back to Bill. He's kept it sealed, in case she ever needs proof that he tried to do the right thing. When both girls were 18, Ex got their names legally changed to their stepfather's name, although she didn't get them legally adopted, as she had said she would.
The next years, I spent very angry at Bill's daughters and former stepson. In 2012, younger daughter got in touch with Bill's dad on Christmas after several years of silence. When Bill called his dad to wish him a Merry Christmas, his dad told him about younger daughter's phone call and that she hadn't wanted to talk about Bill. Bill cried, which had an effect on my Christmas, as well as his mom's (she was visiting us). Later, we had Christmas dinner with my sister, still upset about this mess with Bill's daughter. I was pissed off, because she was an adult and had said she'd never speak to Bill again, yet there she was ruining yet another holiday at her mother's behest. I became extremely bitter toward them and did a lot of writing that, frankly, made me look like a loon. I was tired of these people who hated my husband intruding in our lives.
In 2016, we went to Ireland to celebrate our anniversary. We live in Germany now, so this wasn't as grand a trip as it could have been. However, it was my first time in Ireland. Bill was on Facebook and his face went ashen. I asked him what was wrong, and he said his daughter had shown up as a "person he might know". Well... that pissed me off even more. Because by that time, I won't lie... I pretty much hated Bill's daughters. I lumped them in with their mother, because I had seen no evidence that they were any less crazy than she is.
But then... we had kind of a miracle. My in-laws' dog, Ginger, died. Younger daughter left a note of condolences for Bill's stepmom on Facebook. Bill left his daughter a generic comment and, not long after that, they started private messaging each other. At first, I didn't trust younger daughter, but slowly but surely she and Bill became more acquainted until they finally Skyped with video. She had gotten married to a LDS guy she met while on her mission. Bill found out that Ex was just as crazy as always and had really treated her kids badly. She did everything she could to sabotage their success. Younger daughter got help from church members, because Ex would not help her go to college at BYU. That poor girl went to college with nothing but the clothes on her back. Of course, if she had been in contact with us, we would have helped her, but she didn't know how to contact us and was afraid Bill would reject her.
Younger daughter told us stories of having to give her mother her birthday money so Ex could buy diapers for her younger siblings. We heard about how Ex decided to prop up her image in the church by giving away her daughters' beds to a "needy family". When younger daughter was 18, she couldn't bear living with her mother anymore. Ex, by the way, had taken the girls out of school and they ended up earning GEDs through online programs. So they were denied normal experiences like going to football games and the prom.
Incidentally, I started writing my blog, in part, because younger daughter had a blog when she was a teen. Bill was secretly reading it, because that was the only way he could stay in touch with his kids. To this day, she doesn't know he read her blog... and was alarmed at how much of a radicalized Mormon she was as a teen. Actually, I'd say Ex's decision to go LDS, while initially meant to be a parental alienation tool, turned out to be younger daughter's saving grace. She used the church to escape her mother's toxic clutches, the same way Bill used the Army to escape. Mormonism backfired on the Ex in a spectacular way... much the way most of Ex's stupid schemes turn out.
I wrote my original blog-- inspired in part by younger daughter when she was a teenager-- for about nine years. I still write my blog, but I had to move it due to an unrelated situation that has developed in Germany. The original blog has many posts about this whole experience of having "ghosts" for stepchildren who ate up a significant portion of my husband's paycheck for years, yet refused to have anything to do with him. And if you knew my husband and just how "not abusive" he is, you might understand why this pissed me off so much.
I also couldn't have kids of my own because Ex convinced Bill to have a vasectomy after younger daughter was born. She claimed pregnancy was "too hard" for her, plus they couldn't afford more children. But then she married husband #3 and had two more kids. Bill had his vasectomy reversed for free, courtesy of the Army, but we never had kids of our own, which has always been a huge regret to me. I would have LOVED to have had a baby with Bill. He's the best person I know. Now that we can afford a child, we're too old. Now I'm kind of glad we didn't have a baby... but that's a rant for another day.
As it stands now, younger daughter talks to Bill all the time. She has a toddler aged son and a baby girl. Bill has seen them on Skype and younger daughter sends pictures. We're hoping Bill can visit them in March, when he goes to Vegas on business. She lives in Provo. If the meeting happens, it will be their first in person visit since Christmas 2004.
Older daughter is still estranged, mainly because she is still living with her mother and taking care of her brother, who supposedly has autism, as older daughter also supposedly has-- it was reportedly diagnosed when she was 20-- but Ex lies so much that I have my doubts about the diagnoses. They make handy wing clipping tools.
Ex stepson is married and has a daughter. We saw him and his now wife in 2006, when they spent Thanksgiving with us. Bill hasn't talked to him since 2009, but it's possible they could reconnect. It sounds like ex stepson has matured and is no longer the conniver he seemed to be in 2009.
So there's hope... and I never thought my husband would EVER speak to his kids again, especially his younger daughter. She was the first to reject him and seemed to be the most hateful. And yet she's grown into a lovely young woman with a family of her own. She's hoping to finish college at some point and her husband's very LDS family has taken to her.
I used to hate Mormonism, but I'm now very grateful to the church for helping Bill's daughter when we couldn't. There are some very good people in the church, and some really wonderful ex Mormons. Ex Mormons are some of my FAVORITE people, and this board has been a great resource. I still think the church is a cult and you are right to be concerned about your wife's decision to join the church. Hopefully, your ex wife isn't as cruel, crazy, and downright stupid as Bill's ex wife is. But I hope you'll stick around and learn more about the church. Some of us have been where you are and can help.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2019 04:23PM by knotheadusc.