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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 27, 2019 02:35PM

Sorry, Mormons. It's way, way, older than six thousand years -- and wolves didn't turn into dogs on Noah's Ark.

https://www.boredpanda.com/18000-year-old-puppy-permafrost-could-be-oldest-dog-in-the-world/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2019/nov/27/doggone-it-how-an-18000-year-old-puppy-could-change-everything-we-know-about-dogs

Back in the summer of 2018, scientists found a male puppy buried inside a lump of frozen ground near the Indigirka River, north-east of Yakutsk, Russia. The puppy’s full-body, thick hair, muzzle, and even whiskers and eyelashes were preserved by permafrost.

Scientists deduced that the dog was less than two months old when it died, but the cause of death is not yet determined. The near-perfectly preserved canine is an astonishing 18,000 years old and might be the ‘oldest confirmed dog’ in history. However, after studying it, scientists aren’t sure whether the ‘amazingly well-preserved’ creature is a dog or wolf – presumably because it comes from the point where dogs were domesticated.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2019 02:38PM by anybody.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 27, 2019 02:39PM

the only command it obeyed/ obeys is "Lay Down, Spot".

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 27, 2019 02:41PM

Dog is dead.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 27, 2019 05:02PM


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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 01:03PM

In the beginning there was dog and dog was good. Aren't you a good boy!

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 07:05AM

I am guessing that sixteen thousand years ago, domestication was relative to the level of how civilized the humans were at the time also. It probably wasn't so important that your wolf/dog doesn't make messes on your carpet, or that they stayed off of your kitchen table. If they were good hunting partners and they didn't threaten you very often (assuming you're careful in how you deal with them), they might fit in with the family just fine back then, especially as puppies. I am guessing that dogs and people might have become domesticated together at the same time as civilization progressed.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 10:49AM

18,000 years? That's impossible. The earth is only 6,000 year old. Let's get some DNA, send it to South Korea for a clone. We'll just see what that doggy is all about.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 11:39AM

It will be tough to identify as it appears that the pups ID tag fell off at some point and was lost. They should try scanning the obsidian chip implanted under its skin.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 12:52PM

I was going to say that before sending the dog anywhere, you'd better have the Chinese do a facial recognition scan on it. That way you can always know where it is--

--and arrest it if it joins the picket lines in Hong Kong.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 01:56PM

- And eat it if it escapes to Korea.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 01:59PM

You are a bad man, Roy.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 02:03PM

Even bad men need to eat.....and I do love to cook.

And like they say in Korea "when the cook gets cooking, the ruff get going." At least I think that's what they say....I may have lost something in the translation.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 05:59AM

And the article (in a British tabloid no less):

>>However, after studying it, scientists aren’t sure whether the ‘amazingly well-preserved’ creature is a dog or wolf – presumably because it comes from the point where dogs were domesticated.

>>So far, DNA analysis has not been able to establish Dogor’s species. He might have been a very early modern wolf. He might have been a very late ice-age wolf. He might even have been be a very early domesticated dog.

From a standpoint of molecular biology, it's impossible to determine whether this animal was a wolf or a modern dog. The issue is a complex one; both dogs and wolves descended from a common ancestor back, well... A long time ago...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-wolves-really-became-dogs-180970014/

>>But controversies abound concerning where a long-feared animal first became our closest domestic partner. Genetic studies have pinpointed everywhere from southern China to Mongolia to Europe.

>>Scientists cannot agree on the timing, either. Last summer, research reported in Nature Communications pushed likely dates for domestication further back into the past, suggesting that dogs were domesticated just once at least 20,000 but likely closer to 40,000 years ago.

The Nature article is linked as well. Note the gap between 16,000 years and 40,000 years...

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 12:00PM

"But controversies abound concerning where a long-feared animal first became our closest domestic partner."

Sounds like some relationships I have seen between humans over my years.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 03:19PM

I know that in golf, a caddy and his pro can be closer domestic partners to each other than to their wives.

Weird, huh?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 03:22PM

Is there something you want to tell us?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 03:39PM

My polygamist sister said she has a closer relationship with her sister wives than my brother in law or should I say Brigham in law.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 07, 2019 11:57AM

I'm not going to try to fathom the motives of those attempting to derail my reply. A note to Elder B: Robert Kirby said to blow you a kiss...

Okay, I made that up. I'm not making up this peer-reviewed source, however.

https://www.nature.com/articles/cr2015147

>>The origin and evolution of the domestic dog remains a controversial question for the scientific community, with basic aspects such as the place and date of origin, and the number of times dogs were domesticated, open to dispute.

>>Using whole genome sequences . . . we find that dogs from southern East Asia have significantly higher genetic diversity compared to other populations, and are the most basal group relating to gray wolves, indicating an ancient origin of domestic dogs in southern East Asia 33 000 years ago.

>>Around 15 000 years ago, a subset of ancestral dogs started migrating to the Middle East, Africa and Europe, arriving in Europe at about 10 000 years ago. One of the out of Asia lineages also migrated back to the east, creating a series of admixed populations with the endemic Asian lineages in northern China before migrating to the New World.

Q.E.D.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 07, 2019 02:21PM

Did you read the statement in the peer-reviewed link I provided?

>>The origin and evolution of the domestic dog remains a controversial question for the scientific community, with basic aspects such as the place and date of origin, and the number of times dogs were domesticated, open to dispute.

Best guess? By whom? You?

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 08, 2019 03:10AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 03:12AM by anybody.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: December 08, 2019 06:54AM

From your own Wiki "source" (although it is hardly peer-reviewed, honest)

>>When, where, and how many times wolves may have been domesticated remains debated because only a small number of ancient specimens have been found, and both archaeology and genetics continue to provide conflicting evidence.

>>The archaeological record and genetic analysis show the remains of the Bonn–Oberkassel dog buried beside humans 14,200 years ago to be the first undisputed dog.

There's a four thousand year gap between that specimen and the one from Siberia.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 08, 2019 11:05AM

and there's a lot we don't know

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Posted by: wondering ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 05:36PM

Who said it was domesticated? Why can’t dogs be free?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 05, 2019 04:50PM

Free your dogs and the rest will follow...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_dogs_in_Moscow

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 06:01PM

>> "However, after studying it, scientists aren’t sure whether the ‘amazingly well-preserved’ creature is a dog or wolf"


So what's its pronoun?

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