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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 10:59AM

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/egr-priest-denies-communion-to-gay-judge


This is what happens when human beings claim to know the "word of God..."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/30/us/gay-michigan-judge-communion/index.html


A church in Michigan denied Holy Communion to a state district court judge because she is married to a woman.

Judge Sara Smolenski, the chief judge of Michigan's 63rd District Court, received a call from the priest at St. Stephen Catholic Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, requesting she not attend communion.


"This is not about me against the priest, and it's not really me against the church," Smolenski told CNN. "This feels like selective discrimination. Why choose gay people, and why now?"
Smolenski, 62, said that the Rev. Scott Nolan, the priest at St. Stephen for approximately three years, called her on November 23 and told her, "'It was good to see you in church on Sunday. Because you and Linda are married in the state of Michigan, I'd like you to respect the church and not come to communion.'"
Smolenski was baptized at St. Stephen. She and her nine siblings attended the church's school from first through eighth grade. Her parents were married in the church in the 1940s.


Communion is a significant and sacred act in Catholicism. Through this sacrament, Catholics unite with Christ and symbolically form a single body, according to Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Vatican's website. To be denied communion is essentially to be denied one's right to the holiness of Catholicism.


Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/11/michigan-priest-takes-thousands-local-gay-judge-denies-holy-communion/

A local Grand Rapids pastor will not offer Holy Communion to a lesbian district judge, despite allowing her to participate as a full Catholic member in all other aspects until that point – including when he accepted $7,000 intended for caring for the church grounds.

To add insult to injury, the local diocese announced they side with the priest in denying her their blessings – mere hours before Thanksgiving.


******************************

This should be a good lesson for LGBTQIA+ attempting to stay in Mormonism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 11:07AM by anybody.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 12:41PM

I'm going to report these communionists to the john birch society.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 10:07PM

ahahah

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 01:06PM

Some RC priests are willing to look the other way, and some are hard-liners. This priest sounds like the latter. One article stated that he kicked gay teachers out of the parish school, so the issue may go further than gay marriage.

Faithful Catholics tend to feel a sense of ownership in their church, which is why so many of them take a cafeteria approach to their faith. It's not highly unusual for them to have conflicts with their parish priest.

My question would be, since the marriage was not performed in the church, and therefore not sacramental, why is the church taking any notice of it anyway? Perhaps this is a priest with a vendetta.

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Posted by: june ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:46PM

"My question would be, since the marriage was not performed in the church, and therefore not sacramental, why is the church taking any notice of it anyway? Perhaps this is a priest with a vendetta."

Their issue is not technically with the marriage, but with the sexual activity. Anyone having sex outside of the sacramental marriage is not supposed to take communion. However, they are targeting her. There are many people who are having sex outside of marriage who will take communion. This is usually treated as a matter between the person and God. For example, someone may know a person who is taking communion while also cheating on a spouse, but they will not call the person out about it.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 07:16PM

I agree. I would venture that the majority of U.S. Catholics have pre-marital sex. But I suppose that if you are married in the eyes of the law, that makes the (gay) sex too open for certain priests.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 07:31PM

A relative of mine told me about a Catholic priest that takes things like this vary seriously.

He was a lawyer before he became a priest, he took care of his elderly mother for several years. When she died he examined his life and decided to become a priest.

When someone would go to confession, when they were done self confessing, the priest would start going down the list of the ten commandments, the commanded of the church and all the various church rules asking if they were understood and if they were obeyed.

It was like a cross exam in a court trial.

But to top it off, on Sundays just before communion was distributed, he would make an announcement telling all those that were living together and not married, he said he knew who they were and if they didn't want to be embarrassed in front of the congregation not to come forward for communion.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 08:57PM

I can't imagine anything worse than a priest cum attorney. Unreasonable and uncompassionate rules enforced with anal attention to detail. What could be worse?

Well okay, an attorney cum apostle. . .

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 01:32PM

My question is, why would such an educated lady condescend to place herself beneath the abusive authority of a church that still denies her humanity?

Excluding someone from the communion table in the RC is essentially (correct me if I've got this wrong) condemning their soul. It's denying them salvation for a serious infraction. In her case, being born homosexual.

She could certainly go elsewhere and be welcomed by the Episcopals or non-denoms. As a lawyer though, I think she's trying to stand her ground and force the diocese into taking a public stance against the priest, right? As a judge, I think she's in a unique position to press the issue. I hope she wins out. Bigotry is so old hat.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 03:29PM

>>Excluding someone from the communion table in the RC is essentially (correct me if I've got this wrong) condemning their soul.

No, not at all. It's just saying that you are "out of communion" with the church, meaning that you are not onboard with the church's teachings.

>>My question is, why would such an educated lady condescend to place herself beneath the abusive authority of a church that still denies her humanity?

As I said above, a lot of Catholics develop a sense of ownership in the church, and feel that it is just as much their church as it is the priests' church (in Roman Catholicism, the church membership as a whole is seen as being "the body of Christ.") That is why she is willing to fight the issue. She was raised in that particular parish church and has been a member for several decades. Why should she automatically defer to some short-timer priest?

Catholics tend not to give their leaders the automatic deference that Mormons do. They try to respect their leaders but do not feel compelled to always agree with them. I always compare it to trying to herd cats.

I chose to leave the RC church, but I understand why many people stay who are not in compliance with the church's teachings.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 03:45PM

Thanks for the info. I had thought not allowing someone the transubstantiated body/blood of Christ was basically saying, "no grace for you, have fun roasting".

Interesting about the deference thing, too...I thought priests had uber authority, but it's an old, old church and so I guess the balance of power is a well trodden path there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 03:47PM by ptbarnum.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 04:56PM

The RC church doesn't have much to hold over their members. It's not like Mormonism where a temple recommend can be pulled. Excommunication is very, very rare. That leaves only denial of communion as a way of expressing displeasure with a member's behavior.

Also, when your worldwide membership gets that large, it is a whole lot harder to control people.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 10:49PM

If that priest won't give him communion all he has to do is go to another parish. It might be inconvenient if he lives in a town or rural area with one priest. If he lives in a city, not a big problem.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 10:54PM

Yes, and it sounds like that is an option in this particular case.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:13PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I said above, a lot of Catholics develop a
> sense of ownership in the church, and feel that it
> is just as much their church as it is the priests'
> church (in Roman Catholicism, the church
> membership as a whole is seen as being "the body
> of Christ.") That is why she is willing to fight
> the issue. She was raised in that particular
> parish church and has been a member for several
> decades. Why should she automatically defer to
> some short-timer priest?
>
> Catholics tend not to give their leaders the
> automatic deference that Mormons do. They try to
> respect their leaders but do not feel compelled to
> always agree with them. I always compare it to
> trying to herd cats.
>
> I chose to leave the RC church, but I understand
> why many people stay who are not in compliance
> with the church's teachings.


Thanks for this insight.

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Posted by: june ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:51PM

"Excluding someone from the communion"

They don't see a connection between taking communion and going to heaven. The purpose of communion is to be close to (in communion with) Christ. I'm not taking a position, I"m just saying that they believe. In my opinion, they are trying to make her be far from God because they don't agree with her being public about her sexual behavior (e.g., public gay marriage).

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 07:13PM

Agreed.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 01:50PM

Other Catholic news item:

Lately there have been news articles about the Pope making statements about caring for the planet/environment. That's admirable (more than I can say for many other religions) but I have to wonder if he has any concept of root causes. The problem is there are too many humans already on the planet polluting and wiping out ecosystems. (Funny how the Bible doesn't address pollution and overpopulation.)

Catholics want to seem benevolent about caring about the planet while AT THE SAME TIME supporting the religion that discourages population/birth control.

The Pope doesn't get to have it both ways. Their teachings about birth control, women's reproductive rights and abortion directly contradict and discredit any attempt to pretend they care about the environment, IMO.

Meanwhile child molesting priests still operate under the umbrella of the Church. They have no intention of implementing "call external law enforcement FIRST" from what I can tell.

The mixed signals about homosexuality are not a surprise.

I thought cognitive dissonance was bad as a Mormon but no, as usual, Mormons are amateurs.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 02:50PM

The RC has had a lot more lifespan to refine their social engineering skills.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 03:07PM

> Meanwhile child molesting priests still operate
> under the umbrella of the Church.

That deserves underscoring. A year ago the US bishops were on the verge of enacting their own code in order, charitably, to protect children; and, less generously, to save the church in the United States. The pope ordered them to desist, however, and promised that he would announce a universal program within months.

Of course nothing happened. Frank has other priorities; children are far down his list of priorities.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 03:42PM

https://www.sfgate.com/news/texas/article/AP-Catholic-Church-boards-reviewing-sex-abuse-14851258.php


"The AP also found dozens of cases in which review boards rejected complaints from survivors, only to have them later validated by secular authorities. In a few instances, board members were themselves clergy accused of sexual misconduct. And many abuse survivors told the AP they faced hostility and humiliation from boards.

When a victim in Florida went before a board, a church defense attorney there grilled him about his abuse until he wept. When another man in Ohio braced to tell a panel of strangers how a priest had raped him, one of them, to his disbelief, was knitting a pink sweater. And when a terrified woman in Iowa told her story of abuse, one member was asleep; the board’s finding against her was later thrown into doubt by a court ruling in her favor.

The AP checked all the roughly 180 dioceses in the U.S. for information, reviewed thousands of pages of church and court records and interviewed more than 75 abuse survivors, board members and others to uncover a tainted process where the church hierarchy holds the reins of power at every stage.

Bishops have appointed church defense attorneys and top aides to boards. Bishops choose which cases go to the board, what evidence members see and what criteria is used to decide if an allegation is “substantiated” or “credible.” And sometimes, the AP found, even where boards did find cases credible, bishops still sided with the priest and ignored the findings.
.
.
.

In Illinois, for example, where the attorney general’s probe remains under way, investigators have turned up evidence that dioceses scoured victims’ personal lives to discredit them. In Colorado, an investigator jointly appointed by the state and church said Denver’s board showed too much bias in support of the archdiocese and little understanding of sexual assault and trauma. And in Pennsylvania, a 2016 grand jury investigating the Altoona-Johnstown diocese called the board’s work a cover-up cloaked “in the guise of advocacy,” with members focused on “fact-finding for litigation” in case the victim sued.

The review board was an attempt to convince the public “that the days of a mysterious bishop deciding how to handle a scandalous and heinous report of child molestation and sodomy were over,” the jury wrote. “In reality,” it added, a board is “only as real as any bishop may want it to be.”

Even reports by the bishops’ conference have dinged dioceses for ignoring boards — sometimes leaving them dormant for more than a year — and have repeatedly warned of “complacency.” Review board members past and present told AP about dioceses gaming the process, from failing to keep them informed to using aides to steer deliberations."

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Posted by: june ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:56PM

> Meanwhile child molesting priests still operate
> under the umbrella of the Church.

Yes... and those molesters are allowed to take and give communion. Very disturbing.

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Posted by: june ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:54PM

They are not against population control. For them, the issue is sex without the intention to procreate.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 08:59PM

Catholics confuse me. They seem to believe anything they want then get offended when a priests tries to stand up for a biblical commandment. I mean, What's the point of a church if it can't throw out a sinner... the practicing lesbian? They've got to draw the line somewhere otherwise it's just chaos.

Also I would think Catholics ought to defend their pope. Even if they disagree, yes he may be a sexually perverted, communist, man of Satan, (as Michael Vortex calls him) but he's the golden boy! the best that putrid church of stench has to offer the world.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 09:00PM

Can you point to a place in the Bible where "practicing Lesbianism" is described as a sin?

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Posted by: Fascinated in the Midwest ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 09:30AM

Their (Catholic) club, their (Catholic) rules.

I see the judge's point in wanting to publicize the perceived wrong but I would think she could be equally happy or happier by finding a welcoming congregation. First stop, the Episcopalians?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 10:36AM

Please let me be a member of your club that hates me. Please. Please. Please with sugar and honey on it.

What is wrong with people?????????????

Anti discrimination laws are only forcing bigots to build fancier facades and gays allowing themselves to be their poster children are only helping slather frosting on a rotten cake.

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