It is a travesty that men aren't free to appreciate each other like women are. There is such a stigma associated with it that the concept of a sexually straight dandy is a long dead 19th Century concept. Yet Mormonism still props up so many other ones that need dying like patriarchal polygamy and priesthood infused nuclear families.

I find it so sad that we males have to live in a silent world of grooming (in the simian sense) with words. We have to find different unspoken ways to do it. Women have all the words here.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/oct/20/male-beauty-sexuality

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/jonathan-van-ness-just-made-history-as-cosmo-uks-cover-star-and-no-we-cant-believe-the-glamour/ar-BBXEpMI

Progress, in the UK but one still has to be a bit gay.

But maybe this is the 21st Century heteromale fashion icon?

"Not every day can rise to the level of Big Fit—sometimes just getting on pants, sneakers, a shirt, and a jacket (if you’re lucky) every day is enough. What’s more beautiful than that?"
https://www.gq.com/story/ben-affleck-hell-be-there-for-you

No mani/pedi required. No snuff box but coffee. No hair, makeup or anything.

this is true, the gender box for men is much smaller than the one for women. Women just have much more freedom in expressing themselves. The basic reason for this is probably that all men steer towards three things that drive them, 1)sex drive, 2)money, and 4)bench press. We idolize the ideal as a successful white collar executive who has power in all aspects of life. A man probably like the one depicted in 50 shades of grey. This may also be the image of what we depict as the creator god. He displays rugged good looks, fearless, a leader, as shown in most of the art of mormon jesus.

Women have the advantage that there isn't a defined divine feminine within western culture. So they are free to experiment more. They can look and act more childish, and sometimes clownish. They aren't under the same expectations for getting ahead and being serious with life, and are often treated more as juveniles.

A problem is that if a woman wants to get ahead, or be taken seriously, the society you seem to be impressed with will treat her as childish or clownish. That's a pretty serious downside.

That sounds like some surious mansplaining. I guess men like me and the guy on Cosmo just get the same treatment women do.

I think men can and do appreciate non-sexualized male beauty, often. Consider how much time men spend watching men, beautiful men.

The male athlete is the male form at its most perfect, and many males spend their entire calendar year watching the Adonis play with one another, on the court, field, rink, grid-iron, pitch, etc. Sport-loving males gaze on male beauty almost every day of every season of the year.

And the male gaze ejaculates often: "man, that was gorgeous!", "what a beauty!", "what a great lookin' kid!", etc. And when the Adonis collectively string together such gorgeousness, beauty and great looks, and win the match, game, contest, whatever, they often jump around holding and hugging and so on with one another, all while the male fan gazes on in ecstasy: we won! we won! we won!

And we fall in love. I fell in love with Gio Ushela this past year, a Yankee keeping the hot-corner honest. And it really is love. I loved Kareem Abdul-Jabbar growing up. Intensely.

The energy is massive, especially around a championship moment; but it isn't a sexualized energy. Or, is it...?

(Elder Berry, it just dawned on me that you more than anyone I know would be hugely rewarded by reading Camille Paglia's Sexual Personae.)

Thanks for the recommendation. Added to my wish list.

In reading your post I was reminded of Ayn Rand's sense of male beauty perfectly articulated here using Ayn Rand's aesthetic.

"If your a healthy 6'5" Adonis with an IQ of 250 and no families to look out for "going of the grid" or working in the quarry make sense."
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/10/charles-murray-on-ayn-rand.html

There is such a thing as a softer male beauty that doesn't need an Adam's appledectomy to appreciate in being feminine.

Once one can learn to look at ourselves and others as wonderful structures of variations and permutations of genes with only reproductive parts being usefully appreciated for reproduction does the world of humans open up to us as a cornucopia of beauty.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Once one can learn to look at ourselves and others
> as wonderful structures of variations and
> permutations of genes with only reproductive parts
> being usefully appreciated for reproduction does
> the world of humans open up to us as a cornucopia
> of beauty.

It seems the history of rock and roll has provided a way to learn and accept your cornucopia, from the sinuous Robert Plant to the gender bending career perturbations of Elton John and David Bowie to the falsetto of the BeeGees and Michael Jackson to the over-the-top camp of Twisted Sister, and on and on and everything before and after and in between. A variety of sexual personae have been displayed during the history of rock and roll.

The movies, it seems, have been more rigid.

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The movies, it seems, have been more rigid.

Duck voice: Affleck!

Different wiring = different behaviour.

Evolutionary neurobiophysiological differences = subtle differences in psychology; our respective strengths complement.

(If accept what science has found/is finding)

Now - the social constructionists will say this is wrong, but bet they can distinguish man from woman at a distance by vision alone

I believe our brains are a mix of masculinity and femininity. I also bet you've confused man for woman or vis versa.

Strangely a very feminine man can impregnate a very masculine woman just as well as the social constructed ideal pairing.

https://www.livescience.com/52941-brain-is-mix-male-and-female.html

"Make of it what you will. But remember, there is no such thing as freedom without constraints, even when you perceive none.

"Happiness is a made-up word, an attempt to condense the overall contentment of having one's house in order at a given moment in time...or getting laid."

--Judic West, Presbyter of the New Jersey Turnpike and Father of Five

This is why I follow Judic. The opposite of Mormonism. He frosts the sage with humor while that church frosts the rot with sugar coating.

How the f**k did Judic get to be Presbyter of the New Jersey Turnpike? I covet the title.

Better to be a presbyter than an ankle biter.

Better to be a presbyter than a whole lot of things. "Presbyter" reeks of status and class.

Beautiful!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pictures-of-the-year-oddly-around-the-world/ss-BBXk0qD?li=BBnb7Kz#image=17

Here, have some eye worm https://www.billboard.com/files/media/bb20-2017-fall-preview-paul-simon-art-garfunkel-billboard-1548.jpg

For real, though. We're going on three days when I get the earworm, use The Song Eraser*, and then get reinfected with S&G Earworm!

*The Earworm Eraser https://youtu.be/HW9BHnvYxlE

*silence*

*darkness*

I love you, EB!

and I've known that for a long time. I have very few female friends. I don't hug, etc. I talk to my sister (when we are speaking) and to my best friend. One of my best friends doesn't talk to anyone except her daughter these days. She's too depressed. Good mormon with a perfect family and I mean perfect and she can't get off the bed. She won't let me come to visit. I've tried. She is more like I am, too. Not many female friends.

I feel that women are a lot more catty and backstabbing. I loved working for men. My boss I had for 20 years was a mormon woman and I really liked working for her, but she is also more like I am.

I'm an introvert and prefer to be by myself. I don't do my nails. They are cut short. I don't do my toenails and I don't wear fancy sandals to show them off. I don't wear very much makeup, if any, depending on where I'm going. I'm not into expensive handbags or such things.

A lot of women like me and wish to come by and talk. My best friend in the "ward" is a woman I met AFTER I went inactive and she is extremely mormon, but we hit it off and she also doesn't wear makeup. I do like to really dress up for things like a wedding, but otherwise, I'm in jeans and a hoodie.

I don't identify in the least with the women that you have pointed out. My daughter is a girlie girl to a point. My niece is like me. My sisters are very girlie girl. My mother was not.

I see no problem whatsoever with men being friends and more "affectionate" if you know what I mean.

I think the idea that the church had and whatever that group was named who was mormon who had gays meet up and learn to be "masculine" was idiotic. They hadn't a clue. My "husband" is not your stereotypical gay. Actually, 2 of my best friends are 2 of his prior boyfriends. I do better working for and being friends with men.