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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Why do some people think that only "giants" built the mounds of North America?
The only "giants" in ancient North America were the extinct megafauna such as the giant ground sloth and giant short-faced bear.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si-Te-Cah
https://ancientpatriarchs.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/american-natives-amazing-wars-against-the-cannibal-giants-of-the-mounds/
The original “Indian Wars” were not between the U.S. Calvary and Native-American tribes but between the Indian settlers and the original Native Americans: the giant red-haired cannibals.
Thousands of years ago, giants roamed the West. Their crude camps and ferocious ways terrorized the early native settlers that had wandered across the land bridge into the North American continent and traveled south and westward into what later became the West and Great Southwest of the United States.
Tribes still speak of those ancient days when their ancestors fought desperate battles against the marauding, loping giants—some towering 12-feet tall or taller–that roamed the land viciously attacking settlements, brutally carrying off screaming women and wailing children for food.
The Paiutes named the giants Si-Te-Cah that literally means tule-eaters. The tule is a fibrous water plant the giants wove into rafts to escape the Paiutes continuous attacks. They used the rafts to navigate across what remained of Lake Lahontan.
According to the Paiutes, the red-haired giants stood as tall as 12-feet and were a vicious, unapproachable people that killed and ate captured Paiutes as food.
The Paiutes told the early settlers that after many years of warfare, all the tribes in the area finally joined together to rid themselves of the giants.
The mounds are scattered throughout the Midwest from as far south as Tennessee stretching northwards into Wisconsin, westwards to Oklahoma, and eastwards into West Virginia. Excavation of most mounds has unearthed many artifacts and the remains of average-sized humans.
But older mounds have been discovered containing the skeletal remains of giants…giants with red hair.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 06:12AM by anybody.
The only "giants" in ancient North America were the extinct megafauna such as the giant ground sloth and giant short-faced bear.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si-Te-Cah
https://ancientpatriarchs.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/american-natives-amazing-wars-against-the-cannibal-giants-of-the-mounds/
The original “Indian Wars” were not between the U.S. Calvary and Native-American tribes but between the Indian settlers and the original Native Americans: the giant red-haired cannibals.
Thousands of years ago, giants roamed the West. Their crude camps and ferocious ways terrorized the early native settlers that had wandered across the land bridge into the North American continent and traveled south and westward into what later became the West and Great Southwest of the United States.
Tribes still speak of those ancient days when their ancestors fought desperate battles against the marauding, loping giants—some towering 12-feet tall or taller–that roamed the land viciously attacking settlements, brutally carrying off screaming women and wailing children for food.
The Paiutes named the giants Si-Te-Cah that literally means tule-eaters. The tule is a fibrous water plant the giants wove into rafts to escape the Paiutes continuous attacks. They used the rafts to navigate across what remained of Lake Lahontan.
According to the Paiutes, the red-haired giants stood as tall as 12-feet and were a vicious, unapproachable people that killed and ate captured Paiutes as food.
The Paiutes told the early settlers that after many years of warfare, all the tribes in the area finally joined together to rid themselves of the giants.
The mounds are scattered throughout the Midwest from as far south as Tennessee stretching northwards into Wisconsin, westwards to Oklahoma, and eastwards into West Virginia. Excavation of most mounds has unearthed many artifacts and the remains of average-sized humans.
But older mounds have been discovered containing the skeletal remains of giants…giants with red hair.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 06:12AM by anybody.
One can find giants in every culture's myths. Even White America has its own Paul Bunyan myths.
All the other kids are doing it so it's okay?
These giants were bad neighbors. I’ll bet they were polygamists too.
They had the best words, however, and were a very stable genus.
"But older mounds have been discovered containing the skeletal remains of giants…giants with red hair."
Ummm, no.
Ummm, no.
It was in the Meadowlands in New Jersey, a site frequented by giants.
Another problem with the idea of 12 foot giants is the Square-Cube Law.
The law states that the volume of an object increases more than the surface area. When applied to living creatures, if you doubled the size of an animal, say a human, you would end up with a humanoid with four times the muscle moving EIGHT times the weight. And the weight of a human with gigantism causes constant strain on the body; it's why folks with gigantism tend to have issues with their bones and hearts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 11:57AM by ookami.
The law states that the volume of an object increases more than the surface area. When applied to living creatures, if you doubled the size of an animal, say a human, you would end up with a humanoid with four times the muscle moving EIGHT times the weight. And the weight of a human with gigantism causes constant strain on the body; it's why folks with gigantism tend to have issues with their bones and hearts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2019 11:57AM by ookami.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples_Mound_8
In May and June 1834, Joseph Smith led a Latter Day Saint group of 150 men known as Zion's Camp on a march from Kirtland, Ohio, to Jackson County, Missouri.[2] On June 3, while passing through west-central Illinois three miles east of Griggsville, Illinois, some men discovered a large burial mound on the west side of the Illinois River one mile south of present-day Valley city.[3]
On the top of the mound were ... the remains of bones were strewn over the surface of the ground. The brethren procured a shovel and a hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot, discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs the stone point of a Lamanitish arrow, which evidently produced his death ... The visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton lay before us was a white Lamanite, a large thick-set man, a white Lamanite, and a man of God ... He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah [Ontario County, New York], or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains ... He was killed during the last great struggles of the Lamanites and Nephites".[4]
Archaeologists, after excavating in the Elizabeth Mounds and Napoleon Hollow for ten years where the expressway bridge was to be built, received permission to do excavations in Naples-Russell Mound #8, located just a hundred and fifty yards to the north of the Elizabeth Mound group.[14] A scientific excavation of RN8 was carried out in 1990 by The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, in cooperation with the Center for American Archaeology at Kampsville, Illinois. The dig was funded by the Illinois Department of Transportation and supervised by archaeologist, Ken Farnsworth. The artifacts found during the excavation confirmed the mound to be a Hopewell burial mound, dating from 100 B.C. to 500 A.D.[15] The artifacts are now located in the Illinois State Museum.[16] The artifacts of the RN8 Mound were found to be from many parts of the eastern two thirds of United States or east of the Rocky Mountains, illustrating the wide trade network of the Hopewell culture.[17] Photographs of the artifacts from NR8 have recently been published.[18] The mound is located at the Roy Norbut Fish and Wildlife Area, overseen by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.[19]
In May and June 1834, Joseph Smith led a Latter Day Saint group of 150 men known as Zion's Camp on a march from Kirtland, Ohio, to Jackson County, Missouri.[2] On June 3, while passing through west-central Illinois three miles east of Griggsville, Illinois, some men discovered a large burial mound on the west side of the Illinois River one mile south of present-day Valley city.[3]
On the top of the mound were ... the remains of bones were strewn over the surface of the ground. The brethren procured a shovel and a hoe, and removing the earth to the depth of about one foot, discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire, and between his ribs the stone point of a Lamanitish arrow, which evidently produced his death ... The visions of the past being opened to my understanding by the Spirit of the Almighty, I discovered that the person whose skeleton lay before us was a white Lamanite, a large thick-set man, a white Lamanite, and a man of God ... He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah [Ontario County, New York], or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains ... He was killed during the last great struggles of the Lamanites and Nephites".[4]
Archaeologists, after excavating in the Elizabeth Mounds and Napoleon Hollow for ten years where the expressway bridge was to be built, received permission to do excavations in Naples-Russell Mound #8, located just a hundred and fifty yards to the north of the Elizabeth Mound group.[14] A scientific excavation of RN8 was carried out in 1990 by The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, in cooperation with the Center for American Archaeology at Kampsville, Illinois. The dig was funded by the Illinois Department of Transportation and supervised by archaeologist, Ken Farnsworth. The artifacts found during the excavation confirmed the mound to be a Hopewell burial mound, dating from 100 B.C. to 500 A.D.[15] The artifacts are now located in the Illinois State Museum.[16] The artifacts of the RN8 Mound were found to be from many parts of the eastern two thirds of United States or east of the Rocky Mountains, illustrating the wide trade network of the Hopewell culture.[17] Photographs of the artifacts from NR8 have recently been published.[18] The mound is located at the Roy Norbut Fish and Wildlife Area, overseen by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources.[19]
The "Ancient Patriarchs" website appears to be related to archaeology in the same way that Gene Ray's "Time Cube" is related to physics.
I'm not including a link to "Time Cube" for those who don't already know what it is. Just take my word for it that it's a racist, paranoia driven, psychotic crank ramble about 4 simultaneous 24 hour days happening on earth at once.
I don't get the fascination with the idea that humans used to come in bigger sizes. Some kind of psychological modern inferiority thing, or just more magical thinking?
I'm not including a link to "Time Cube" for those who don't already know what it is. Just take my word for it that it's a racist, paranoia driven, psychotic crank ramble about 4 simultaneous 24 hour days happening on earth at once.
I don't get the fascination with the idea that humans used to come in bigger sizes. Some kind of psychological modern inferiority thing, or just more magical thinking?
Weight goes up faster than strength, as noted above. That’s why gymnasts are short, centers don’t lead fast breaks in basketball, and chipmunks can bound up a tree, but an elephant can’t get all four feet off the ground at once.
Dumbo did.
Dumbo had a feather. Probably a Ukrainian feather. Against the rules. :)
Putting Dumbo aside for the moment, which because he can fly is easier than you might think, the relationship between weight and strength is also evident in Olympic weightlifters. The smaller men and women are much stronger, pound for pound, than the really big ones.
Disney has all the fairy dust and feathers.
I am betting that bones of mammoths and dinosaurs had something to do with myths of giants and dragons too.
I'm betting ancient horse bones have nothing to do with The Book of Mormon myth. How about you?
it sounds to me like there could be some truth to it. scienists believe that in ancient times the earth atmosphere was different from today more nitrogen, it supported larger plants, larger birds, and dinosaurs. If we are suppose to believe in evolution why is it so hard to believe in giants?
Because 64 million years.
We've had a modern atmosphere for a while. It shook out to today's average gaseous mix about 1.4 billion years ago with some variability between ages due to plant and algae speciation/volcanism/mass extinction events, setting the size limits of each species accordingly. By the time early hominins emerged they were breathing our standard gas mix and we've evolved larger with the passage of time, much bigger than really early specimens such as A. Afarensis, not smaller.
We are generally even a little bit taller on average than our evolutionary contemporaries, the Neanderthals, though much more delicately built.
There is one smaller hominin species that is younger than the Australopithicines, called Homo Floresiensis. They only stood about 1.1 m tall. H. Sapiens would've looked like giants to them, but they were quite isolated and may not have actually ever encountered their larger cousins.
It is hard to believe because there is no evidence. Size is actually a limiting factor in evolution. Every species will have outliers, and individual gigantism does happen.
We are a species that loves to exaggerate while telling stories. Listen to any hunter, fisher, Joseph Smith, etc. telling heroic yarns. I can't imagine ancient warriors or traders would have been any different.
We are generally even a little bit taller on average than our evolutionary contemporaries, the Neanderthals, though much more delicately built.
There is one smaller hominin species that is younger than the Australopithicines, called Homo Floresiensis. They only stood about 1.1 m tall. H. Sapiens would've looked like giants to them, but they were quite isolated and may not have actually ever encountered their larger cousins.
It is hard to believe because there is no evidence. Size is actually a limiting factor in evolution. Every species will have outliers, and individual gigantism does happen.
We are a species that loves to exaggerate while telling stories. Listen to any hunter, fisher, Joseph Smith, etc. telling heroic yarns. I can't imagine ancient warriors or traders would have been any different.
My point was that any climatic advantage bestowed by atmospheric conditions when the dinosaurs were around could not have influence HSS's evolution over the last million years. And I am familiar with the hobbits and allopathic speciation.
Lot's Wife, you're totally right. The info was for macaRomney's benefit (sciencey goodness) and to support your point...people are a blip in recent geologic time.
I don't always write in a linear fashion. I try to catch my worst non-sequiturs in preview but big surprise, I got distracted. Sorry. I keep trying to get in the habit of adding "@ so-and-so" to make it clearer, it just hasn't set in quite yet.
I don't always write in a linear fashion. I try to catch my worst non-sequiturs in preview but big surprise, I got distracted. Sorry. I keep trying to get in the habit of adding "@ so-and-so" to make it clearer, it just hasn't set in quite yet.
No worries. I like people who keep me guessing!
That could be true that the dinosaurs lived 65 million years ago way before humans. But then we get into the problem of how do we know that? Our systems of measuring historicity of science is very inaccurate. Such as measuring the number of thawing and accumulation cycles in glaciers, Now we know that there can be multiple layers in one year. And then the tree rings measurements don't go back 65 million years. And there can be multiple lines in each year depending on the weather. But the biggest problem is that carbon dating is not accurate past a few hundred years.
https://www.cmnh.org/laetoli-footprints Human supposedly in Africa 3 million years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating the academic establishment now believes carbon dating to be accurate to 50,000 years ago.
So at present scientists by their own current teachings and established wisdom have a very flimsy case to argue that dinosaurs are 65 million years old.
https://www.cmnh.org/laetoli-footprints Human supposedly in Africa 3 million years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating the academic establishment now believes carbon dating to be accurate to 50,000 years ago.
So at present scientists by their own current teachings and established wisdom have a very flimsy case to argue that dinosaurs are 65 million years old.
No, macaRomney, it's not flimsy, for multiple reasons.
There are multiple methods of obtaining accurate age estimates for geologic and evolutionary events.
Carbon-14 is not the only isotope used in radiometry, there are multiple isotopes used and usually more than one is employed in any given age test. Aside from that, you have the very obvious observations gained from rock strata. The K-Pg boundary is a global, easy to see deposit of rock that marks the end of the Mesozoic era and corresponds with the Chicxulub impact, when an asteroid the approximate size of Manhattan wiped out a lot of life on earth, including the non-avian dinosaurs. Using well-trusted radiometry, scientists have narrowed down the age of this event to 66.043 +/- 0.011 million years ago.
There are so many reasons why the K-Pg layer is an accurate measuring tool that I'm not going to go into them. Tree rings and ice cores are MODERN metrics used to study RECENT climate change and are studied by people who are trained to interpret them accurately. We're talking about people who spend their full-time jobs analyzing and parsing out what happened when. They examine tiny, slow changes that happen over timeframes that encompass the whole of bipedal hominin existence.
The science is as accurate as needs be to rule out red haired giant hunans, with the exception of the very occasional individual very tall Viking who went out and sowed some tall Scottish oats. I'll even give you the Philistine mercenary afflicted with pituitary gigantism if you will reconsider the idea that science doesn't know or can't tell or maybe isn't measuring right.
Science does know. Just like "Moon Quakers", "Race of Ginger Giants" Did. Not. Happen.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 01:11PM by ptbarnum.
There are multiple methods of obtaining accurate age estimates for geologic and evolutionary events.
Carbon-14 is not the only isotope used in radiometry, there are multiple isotopes used and usually more than one is employed in any given age test. Aside from that, you have the very obvious observations gained from rock strata. The K-Pg boundary is a global, easy to see deposit of rock that marks the end of the Mesozoic era and corresponds with the Chicxulub impact, when an asteroid the approximate size of Manhattan wiped out a lot of life on earth, including the non-avian dinosaurs. Using well-trusted radiometry, scientists have narrowed down the age of this event to 66.043 +/- 0.011 million years ago.
There are so many reasons why the K-Pg layer is an accurate measuring tool that I'm not going to go into them. Tree rings and ice cores are MODERN metrics used to study RECENT climate change and are studied by people who are trained to interpret them accurately. We're talking about people who spend their full-time jobs analyzing and parsing out what happened when. They examine tiny, slow changes that happen over timeframes that encompass the whole of bipedal hominin existence.
The science is as accurate as needs be to rule out red haired giant hunans, with the exception of the very occasional individual very tall Viking who went out and sowed some tall Scottish oats. I'll even give you the Philistine mercenary afflicted with pituitary gigantism if you will reconsider the idea that science doesn't know or can't tell or maybe isn't measuring right.
Science does know. Just like "Moon Quakers", "Race of Ginger Giants" Did. Not. Happen.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 01:11PM by ptbarnum.
Good god, are you still obsessing over dinosaurs and carbon dating? This has been explained to you before.
Carbon dating is not the only technique used to determine the age of things, and isn't used for dino fossils. Other elements are subject to radioactive decay.
Older post from you on this subject, and the responses. Please learn this time.
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1846234,1846290#msg-1846290
Carbon dating is not the only technique used to determine the age of things, and isn't used for dino fossils. Other elements are subject to radioactive decay.
Older post from you on this subject, and the responses. Please learn this time.
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1846234,1846290#msg-1846290
> https://www.cmnh.org/laetoli-footprints Human
> supposedly in Africa 3 million years ago.
Lucy wasn't a modern human. She represented an ancestral form of hominin. You could go back 20 million years, or 500 million years, and find ancestors of homo sapiens sapiens and it would not mean that homo sapiens sapiens lived then.
-----------------
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
> the academic establishment now believes carbon
> dating to be accurate to 50,000 years ago.
No one uses radiocarbon dating to date dinosaurs. Scientists generally use various isotopes of potassium or uranium. So your article about carbon 14 is irrelevant.
---------------------
> So at present scientists by their own current
> teachings and established wisdom have a very
> flimsy case to argue that dinosaurs are 65 million
> years old.
False.
> supposedly in Africa 3 million years ago.
Lucy wasn't a modern human. She represented an ancestral form of hominin. You could go back 20 million years, or 500 million years, and find ancestors of homo sapiens sapiens and it would not mean that homo sapiens sapiens lived then.
-----------------
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
> the academic establishment now believes carbon
> dating to be accurate to 50,000 years ago.
No one uses radiocarbon dating to date dinosaurs. Scientists generally use various isotopes of potassium or uranium. So your article about carbon 14 is irrelevant.
---------------------
> So at present scientists by their own current
> teachings and established wisdom have a very
> flimsy case to argue that dinosaurs are 65 million
> years old.
False.
This is what happens when one thinks that the only thing that is important to learn about is manifest destiny.
Manifestly so.
It is also what happens when you have a very strong world view that defies alterations. The most secure selves are the ones who know they are right despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I saw They Might Be Giants in San Jose at a club show. Ironically, the Giants are a small ensemble. They had two musicians and a drum programmer. This was in the late eighties, so there were giants in those (MTV) days.
My favorite of theirs is "We Want a Rock".
"They Might Be" being the key here.
I am new here... still spelunking down the LDS rabbit hole...
So the Mormons believe that there were 12 foot tall red haired humans in North America... and that there is archaeological and fossils evidence of such?
If so... is that a common belief or more of a specialty thing? I just can’t wrap my head around it.
If it were true it would be on the front page of TIME magazine like Tutahnkamun’s mask...
So the Mormons believe that there were 12 foot tall red haired humans in North America... and that there is archaeological and fossils evidence of such?
If so... is that a common belief or more of a specialty thing? I just can’t wrap my head around it.
If it were true it would be on the front page of TIME magazine like Tutahnkamun’s mask...
and giants lived at the North Pole too -- or some such nonsense
anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and giants lived at the North Pole too -- or some
> such nonsense
Also the moon and the sun? Because “God” would never make a heavenly body if it couldn’t support human life? Or something like that?
I tell you, some of the stuff I see I just have to ignore because I have more pressing issues and some of it is just BEYOND batshit crazy.
Like one of the original prophets meeting Cain and he was a Bigfoot... I mean you just can’t invest in reacting to something like that. There just aren’t enough hours in the day! LOL
-------------------------------------------------------
> and giants lived at the North Pole too -- or some
> such nonsense
Also the moon and the sun? Because “God” would never make a heavenly body if it couldn’t support human life? Or something like that?
I tell you, some of the stuff I see I just have to ignore because I have more pressing issues and some of it is just BEYOND batshit crazy.
Like one of the original prophets meeting Cain and he was a Bigfoot... I mean you just can’t invest in reacting to something like that. There just aren’t enough hours in the day! LOL
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 271:
"So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized."
Orson Pratt, 1878, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pp. 294-95:
"…Let us, for a moment, consider the planets of our solar system, namely, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune – the great primary planets of our system; are these made for nothing? No. What has the Lord said to us, Latter-day Saints, concerning these planets? He says, all these are kingdoms, to which he has given laws… Why was it necessary, that there should be a withdrawal of the presence of the Lord in visiting the different worlds? I think it was necessary, so far as mortality is concerned, and indicates that the inhabitants of these different planets are fallen, as we are. It does not say so, in so many words, but I can see that they must be fallen, and for that reason the Lord withdraws his presence from them, and visits them in their hour, and time, and season, and then withdraws from them, leaving them to ponder in their hearts the commandments given them."
It is completely nuts. You may want to read up on these -
http://www.mormonthink.com/scienceweb.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/moonsun.htm
"So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized."
Orson Pratt, 1878, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 19, pp. 294-95:
"…Let us, for a moment, consider the planets of our solar system, namely, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune – the great primary planets of our system; are these made for nothing? No. What has the Lord said to us, Latter-day Saints, concerning these planets? He says, all these are kingdoms, to which he has given laws… Why was it necessary, that there should be a withdrawal of the presence of the Lord in visiting the different worlds? I think it was necessary, so far as mortality is concerned, and indicates that the inhabitants of these different planets are fallen, as we are. It does not say so, in so many words, but I can see that they must be fallen, and for that reason the Lord withdraws his presence from them, and visits them in their hour, and time, and season, and then withdraws from them, leaving them to ponder in their hearts the commandments given them."
It is completely nuts. You may want to read up on these -
http://www.mormonthink.com/scienceweb.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/moonsun.htm
No, they don’t. This board has a range of speculative ideas that have nothing to do with Mormonism. This is generally an open minded group that will banter about many ideas. This red haired giant one is just a little farther out than most.
My goal here is to make sure that all the world knows that no matter what Mormonism calls itself, Mormonism is not a legitimate religion, is a deliberate fraud, is full made up nonsense, and no amount of "mainstreaming" or "whitewashing" will ever make it all go away.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/qblhl/the_infamous_mormon_hollow_earth_theory_actually/
The infamous Mormon "Hollow Earth" theory, actually taught in my home ward as I was growing up. (Bonus space traveling ten tribes)
The ten tribes are hidden in a hollow of the earth somewhere. Sources include Benjamin F. Johnson, personal friend of Joseph Smith, who records the following conversation: "I asked where the nine and a half tribes of Israel were. 'Well,' said [Joseph Smith], 'you remember the old caldron or potash kettle you used to boil maple sap in for sugar, don't you?' I said yes. 'Well,' said he, 'they are in the north pole in a concave just like the shape of that kettle. And John the Revelator is with them, preparing them for their return.'" [Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life's Review (Independence, MO: Zion's Printing and Publishing Co., n.d.), pg 93.]
Another published version of the hollow earth theory takes us to Mexico, where there is a large cave opening on the side of a cliff which David O. McKay is said to have said "led to the center of the earth, and that it was the access to the outer world for the ten tribes." The cliff is, of course, too high to scale from the bottom and is protected from the top by a large overhanging ledge. No one has ever been able to enter it. [Susan Peterson, "The Great and Dreadful Day: Mormon Folklore of the Apocalypse," Utah Historical Quarterly, Fall 1976, No. 1, pg 373.]
Yeah, David O. McKay, that really level-headed teacher guy who became prophet, he taught that. But only in private I guess.
This isn't Hollow-earth, but it's connected:
We learn from a son of Philo Dibble that Joseph Smith drew a picture for his father to show him where the ten tribes were. The picture consisted of a circle with a smaller circle on each side, something like a round face with round ears. The Prophet explained that one of these lobes (the one above the north pole) represented the orb upon which the ten tribes resided. Presumably the other lobe, beneath the south pole, was for the city of Enoch. It is also assumed that these smaller planets are connected to the earth by an invisible neck of land. [Matthew W. Dalton, A Key to This Earth (Willard, Utah: 1906; See also Walt Whipple, "A Discussion of the Many Theories Concerning the Whereabouts of the Lost Ten Tribes," BYU Library, unpublished typescript; and Brough, pg 51-55.]
And this guy wrote a book on the subject of the Hollow Earth.
The argument in this instance is that the ten tribes live in a mysteriously camouflaged area somewhere near the North Pole. Among is strong advocates have been W. W. Phelps [W. W. Phelps, "A Letter to Oliver Cowdery," Messenger and Advocate 2:194 (October 1835).], who we are reminded acted as scribe at times for the Prophet Joseph, Orson Pratt, and George Reynolds. Elder Pratt expounded on the often-quoted text from 2 Esdras (an apocryphal work, which we must consider), which speaks of the ten tribes escaping from their Assyrian captors, crossing the Euphrates, and marching into the north to dwell in a land never before inhabited. He reconstructs the route they followed, giving distances and travel times, detailing little-known facts concerning the "comparatively pleasant" climate that would greet them and speaks of the grain and other vegetables they would raise. [Orson Pratt, "Where are the Ten Tribes of Israel?" Millennial Star 29:200-4.] George Reynolds, following Elder Pratt's lead, wrote of the feelings of awe these vagabonds of Israel must have experienced as they faced the icy waters of the Arctic Sea. [George Reynolds, "The Assyrian Captivity," Juvenile Instructor 18:26-29.]
I also think this is relevant:
Joseph Smith once said: "I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrines in public than in private." [Joseph Fielding Smith, comp., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1961), pg 370.]
But honestly these are all stupid silly theories, because we KNOW that the lost tribes are in outer space:
Eliza R. Snow, who wrote about space tribes in the form of a lyric which appeared in the Church hymnal from 1856 to 1912. They key stanzas were as follows:
Thou, Earth, was once a glorious sphere Of noble magnitude, And didst with majesty appear Among the worlds of God.
But thy dimensions have been torn Asunder, piece by piece, And each dismember'd fragment borne Abroad to distant space.
When Enoch could no longer stay Amid corruption here, Part of thyself was borne away To form another sphere.
That portion where his city stood He gain'd by right approv'd; And nearer to the throne of God His planet upward moved.
And when the Lord saw fit to hide The "ten lost tribes" away, Thou, Earth, wast sever'd to provide The orb on which they stay.
And thus, from time to time, thy size Has been diminish'd still Thou seemest the law of sacrifice Created to fulfil.
Just picture singing that in conference on Sunday!
Charles Lowell Walker, in his diary said that when he inquired about the meaning of this him, Eliza told him he got the doctrine from Joseph, himself (she being one of his wives. Thus, this was a doctrine that Joseph taught to his wives and his closest friends. There is also a supporting statement attributed to the grandson of a man with whom the Prophet once stayed. In response to his grandfather's question as to where the ten tribes were, Joseph Smith reportedly took him outside and pointed to a star twenty feet (from their position) to the right and below the north star. [R. Clayton Brough, The Lost Tribes (Horizon Publishers, 1979), pg 47-48]
Eliza R. Snow also purportedly told his grandfather that she got her information on this matter from the Prophet. [Robert W. Smith, The Last Days (SLC: Pyramid Press, 1947), pg 225-27.]
In addition, we are told by a son of Anson Call, a particular friend of the Prophet, that Joseph told him in company with others on a number of occasions that the ten tribes were on a portion of the earth that had been taken away. [Ibid., pg 215. See also Parley P. Pratt, Millennial Star, Vol. 1, pg 258 (Question 7), and Writings of Parley P. Pratt (Parker Pratt Robinson: SLC, 1952), pg 306-307.]
And we know that the City of Enoch is in Outer space:
"Joseph (Smith) also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the Gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water" (Waiting for World’s End, The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, p. 305, published in 1993 by Signature Books, Salt Lake City, UT)
And let's not forget that this doctrine gave us Battle Star Galactica, so it MUST be true. (yeah for cylons! I bet you didn't know that the reason that Commander Adama is named Adama in order to try and resolve the Adam-God doctrine, did you?)
So clearly the Hollow-Earth theory is malarkey. But if you don't believe me, use Moroni's promise to have it personally revealed to you. After all, there are many, many accounts of members who have followed Moroni's promise and had each one of these different locations of the ten tribes revealed to them. That's how we know that the spirit is reliable, it gives everyone different answers.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 11:46AM by anybody.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/qblhl/the_infamous_mormon_hollow_earth_theory_actually/
The infamous Mormon "Hollow Earth" theory, actually taught in my home ward as I was growing up. (Bonus space traveling ten tribes)
The ten tribes are hidden in a hollow of the earth somewhere. Sources include Benjamin F. Johnson, personal friend of Joseph Smith, who records the following conversation: "I asked where the nine and a half tribes of Israel were. 'Well,' said [Joseph Smith], 'you remember the old caldron or potash kettle you used to boil maple sap in for sugar, don't you?' I said yes. 'Well,' said he, 'they are in the north pole in a concave just like the shape of that kettle. And John the Revelator is with them, preparing them for their return.'" [Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life's Review (Independence, MO: Zion's Printing and Publishing Co., n.d.), pg 93.]
Another published version of the hollow earth theory takes us to Mexico, where there is a large cave opening on the side of a cliff which David O. McKay is said to have said "led to the center of the earth, and that it was the access to the outer world for the ten tribes." The cliff is, of course, too high to scale from the bottom and is protected from the top by a large overhanging ledge. No one has ever been able to enter it. [Susan Peterson, "The Great and Dreadful Day: Mormon Folklore of the Apocalypse," Utah Historical Quarterly, Fall 1976, No. 1, pg 373.]
Yeah, David O. McKay, that really level-headed teacher guy who became prophet, he taught that. But only in private I guess.
This isn't Hollow-earth, but it's connected:
We learn from a son of Philo Dibble that Joseph Smith drew a picture for his father to show him where the ten tribes were. The picture consisted of a circle with a smaller circle on each side, something like a round face with round ears. The Prophet explained that one of these lobes (the one above the north pole) represented the orb upon which the ten tribes resided. Presumably the other lobe, beneath the south pole, was for the city of Enoch. It is also assumed that these smaller planets are connected to the earth by an invisible neck of land. [Matthew W. Dalton, A Key to This Earth (Willard, Utah: 1906; See also Walt Whipple, "A Discussion of the Many Theories Concerning the Whereabouts of the Lost Ten Tribes," BYU Library, unpublished typescript; and Brough, pg 51-55.]
And this guy wrote a book on the subject of the Hollow Earth.
The argument in this instance is that the ten tribes live in a mysteriously camouflaged area somewhere near the North Pole. Among is strong advocates have been W. W. Phelps [W. W. Phelps, "A Letter to Oliver Cowdery," Messenger and Advocate 2:194 (October 1835).], who we are reminded acted as scribe at times for the Prophet Joseph, Orson Pratt, and George Reynolds. Elder Pratt expounded on the often-quoted text from 2 Esdras (an apocryphal work, which we must consider), which speaks of the ten tribes escaping from their Assyrian captors, crossing the Euphrates, and marching into the north to dwell in a land never before inhabited. He reconstructs the route they followed, giving distances and travel times, detailing little-known facts concerning the "comparatively pleasant" climate that would greet them and speaks of the grain and other vegetables they would raise. [Orson Pratt, "Where are the Ten Tribes of Israel?" Millennial Star 29:200-4.] George Reynolds, following Elder Pratt's lead, wrote of the feelings of awe these vagabonds of Israel must have experienced as they faced the icy waters of the Arctic Sea. [George Reynolds, "The Assyrian Captivity," Juvenile Instructor 18:26-29.]
I also think this is relevant:
Joseph Smith once said: "I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrines in public than in private." [Joseph Fielding Smith, comp., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (SLC: Deseret Book Co., 1961), pg 370.]
But honestly these are all stupid silly theories, because we KNOW that the lost tribes are in outer space:
Eliza R. Snow, who wrote about space tribes in the form of a lyric which appeared in the Church hymnal from 1856 to 1912. They key stanzas were as follows:
Thou, Earth, was once a glorious sphere Of noble magnitude, And didst with majesty appear Among the worlds of God.
But thy dimensions have been torn Asunder, piece by piece, And each dismember'd fragment borne Abroad to distant space.
When Enoch could no longer stay Amid corruption here, Part of thyself was borne away To form another sphere.
That portion where his city stood He gain'd by right approv'd; And nearer to the throne of God His planet upward moved.
And when the Lord saw fit to hide The "ten lost tribes" away, Thou, Earth, wast sever'd to provide The orb on which they stay.
And thus, from time to time, thy size Has been diminish'd still Thou seemest the law of sacrifice Created to fulfil.
Just picture singing that in conference on Sunday!
Charles Lowell Walker, in his diary said that when he inquired about the meaning of this him, Eliza told him he got the doctrine from Joseph, himself (she being one of his wives. Thus, this was a doctrine that Joseph taught to his wives and his closest friends. There is also a supporting statement attributed to the grandson of a man with whom the Prophet once stayed. In response to his grandfather's question as to where the ten tribes were, Joseph Smith reportedly took him outside and pointed to a star twenty feet (from their position) to the right and below the north star. [R. Clayton Brough, The Lost Tribes (Horizon Publishers, 1979), pg 47-48]
Eliza R. Snow also purportedly told his grandfather that she got her information on this matter from the Prophet. [Robert W. Smith, The Last Days (SLC: Pyramid Press, 1947), pg 225-27.]
In addition, we are told by a son of Anson Call, a particular friend of the Prophet, that Joseph told him in company with others on a number of occasions that the ten tribes were on a portion of the earth that had been taken away. [Ibid., pg 215. See also Parley P. Pratt, Millennial Star, Vol. 1, pg 258 (Question 7), and Writings of Parley P. Pratt (Parker Pratt Robinson: SLC, 1952), pg 306-307.]
And we know that the City of Enoch is in Outer space:
"Joseph (Smith) also said that when the City of Enoch fled and was translated, it was where the Gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water" (Waiting for World’s End, The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, p. 305, published in 1993 by Signature Books, Salt Lake City, UT)
And let's not forget that this doctrine gave us Battle Star Galactica, so it MUST be true. (yeah for cylons! I bet you didn't know that the reason that Commander Adama is named Adama in order to try and resolve the Adam-God doctrine, did you?)
So clearly the Hollow-Earth theory is malarkey. But if you don't believe me, use Moroni's promise to have it personally revealed to you. After all, there are many, many accounts of members who have followed Moroni's promise and had each one of these different locations of the ten tribes revealed to them. That's how we know that the spirit is reliable, it gives everyone different answers.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 11:46AM by anybody.
Thank you for that lengthy response to my comment. Perhaps the format of how the threads are arranged on this board makes it difficult for some to keep track of the flow of comments. Just to clarify, my previous comment was a simple answer to Elove’s question if Mormons (today’s Mormons...the ones effecting his daughters lives right now)if Mormons believe in red haired giants roaming earth in prehistoric times as part of their regular religious beliefs. Although I no longer share Mormon’s regular religious beliefs, I am aware of them enough to be confident in telling Elove that red haired giants are not a traditional Mormon doctrine...which is what I did. I don’t see what your(I am still speaking to Anybody) what your response had to do with my answer....but thanks for the information...it was interesting.
I believe in the New York Giants. :)
Very few people believe in the New York Giants this year.
Earlier in the thread, Macaromney said:
it sounds to me like there could be some truth to it [the claim that there were once giant humans]. Scientists believe that in ancient times the earth atmosphere was different from today more nitrogen, it supported larger plants, larger birds, and dinosaurs. If we are suppose to believe in evolution why is it so hard to believe in giants?
This is all stuff that is easy to look up. The earth did once have larger insects than we could possibly have today. The reason for that is that the atmosphere used to have a higher percentage of oxygen. Insects don't have lungs. They absorb oxygen directly through their "skin" (exoskeleton). They also have pretty rudimentary circulatory systems.
Since their volume (the amount of stuff inside their bodies that needs oxygen) goes up much faster than the surface area of their bodies as they get larger, their size is limited by how much oxygen they can absorb. Animals with lungs can develop more surface area in their lungs by developing more sponge-like, convoluted lung surface. Insects can't do that, since their exoskeleton, where they absorb the oxygen, also needs to be strong to maintain the shape and strength of their bodies.
The largest fossil insect is a dragonfly with a 27 inch wingspan. Insects were largest back in the Carboniferous and early Permian, 300 to 280 Million Years Ago (MYA), when the oxygen level hit a max of 35%. More on historic oxygen levels later. It is thought that the large insects died out because (a) oxygen levels dropped, and the mega-insects could no longer absorb enough oxygen, and (b) the development of birds, and large insects were probably great targets for lunch.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/10/animal-science-insects-biggest-moth-weta-butterfly/
As far as I know, plants were not larger in the distant past. Today's rain forests and Giant Sequoias are as big as any plants that have ever existed. Besides, plants need CO2, so the oxygen level is not particularly relevant. BTW, animals need oxygen to be able to burn food to survive, not nitrogen. MacaRomney seems to think the atmosphere was denser back in the day, and the extra buoyancy is what made gigantism possible. I'll get to that in a bit, but oxygen is denser than nitrogen, and there was more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past, so the atmosphere did have more buoyancy. Macaromney lurched uncontrollably into a partially correct conclusion.
Oxygen levels in atmosphere:
For the first half of the earth's existence, there was practically no oxygen in the atmosphere. About 2.4 billion years ago the Great Oxygenation Event occurred. Prior to that the atmosphere was mostly nitrogen and CO2. With the production of free oxygen by plants, the earth underwent a huge, one-time only transformation, when exposed elemental iron rusted. That's what makes all the rocks in eastern Utah red. Rust.
I found of chart of oxygen levels over the last billion years, which covers all of the time period of "interesting" life - multicellular plants and animals, not just green ooze.
For the first 400 million years, oxygen levels were at about 3%
Oxygen started climbing some tens of millions of years before the Cambrian Explosion, when sexual reproduction developed, and complex lifeforms took off with a roar. That was about 500 MYA, and the oxygen levels climbed through 15%.
As I mentioned earlier, the giant insects were around at the close of the carboniferous and beginning of the permian periods, roughly 300 MYA. The oxygen levels took a spectacular drop from 35% to 15% about 250 MYA, at about the time of the Permian Extinction, the largest extinction in earth's history (so far at least). I don't know that the two events were connected, but that would be my guess.
It took about 50 million years to get back to 20% oxygen, and then it slowly inched back up to 30% during the age of the dinosaurs.
After the end of the dinosaurs (K/T Extinction, about 70 MYA), oxygen levels went into a moderate decline from 30% down to 21% over the most recent ten or twenty million years. That's where we are today, and where we have been for the entirety of human existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth
Chart of oxygen content over the last billion years near the end of the article.
Buoyancy of the atmosphere
OK, so was the atmosphere denser, making it easier for larger animals to survive/exist? Short answer: not really. A 175 pound person displaces about 80 liters of air, which weighs just under 100 grams, or three and a half ounces. That is how much lighter a person is at sea level, than if they were in a vacuum. It's not much. If the air were twice as dense, it'd be seven ounces instead of three and a half. That's not enough difference to allow animals to become giants.
In any case, I am not aware of the atmosphere being radically more or less dense over the last billion years. It may have been somewhat denser when oxygen levels were higher. Denser air would make it easier for big birds to fly, but for land animals, it is not a factor in size.
I did look up densities of various gasses. Helium and hydrogen are of course quite low density. Oxygen (1.33 g/l) is slightly more dense than nitrogen (1.165 g/l), and water vapor is lightest 0.88 g/l. That is the reason low air pressure and rain occur together. Water vapor is lighter than dry air.
BTW, for the metric-system challenged, a gram is the weight of a dollar bill. A bank bundle of 100 bills is 100 grams, or just under a quarter pound. A liter is about 10% bigger than a quart. A liter of water weighs a kilogram, or 2.2 pounds. A pint of water weighs a pound.
FYI, densities of common gasses:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas-density-d_158.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 01:30PM by Brother Of Jerry.
it sounds to me like there could be some truth to it [the claim that there were once giant humans]. Scientists believe that in ancient times the earth atmosphere was different from today more nitrogen, it supported larger plants, larger birds, and dinosaurs. If we are suppose to believe in evolution why is it so hard to believe in giants?
This is all stuff that is easy to look up. The earth did once have larger insects than we could possibly have today. The reason for that is that the atmosphere used to have a higher percentage of oxygen. Insects don't have lungs. They absorb oxygen directly through their "skin" (exoskeleton). They also have pretty rudimentary circulatory systems.
Since their volume (the amount of stuff inside their bodies that needs oxygen) goes up much faster than the surface area of their bodies as they get larger, their size is limited by how much oxygen they can absorb. Animals with lungs can develop more surface area in their lungs by developing more sponge-like, convoluted lung surface. Insects can't do that, since their exoskeleton, where they absorb the oxygen, also needs to be strong to maintain the shape and strength of their bodies.
The largest fossil insect is a dragonfly with a 27 inch wingspan. Insects were largest back in the Carboniferous and early Permian, 300 to 280 Million Years Ago (MYA), when the oxygen level hit a max of 35%. More on historic oxygen levels later. It is thought that the large insects died out because (a) oxygen levels dropped, and the mega-insects could no longer absorb enough oxygen, and (b) the development of birds, and large insects were probably great targets for lunch.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/10/animal-science-insects-biggest-moth-weta-butterfly/
As far as I know, plants were not larger in the distant past. Today's rain forests and Giant Sequoias are as big as any plants that have ever existed. Besides, plants need CO2, so the oxygen level is not particularly relevant. BTW, animals need oxygen to be able to burn food to survive, not nitrogen. MacaRomney seems to think the atmosphere was denser back in the day, and the extra buoyancy is what made gigantism possible. I'll get to that in a bit, but oxygen is denser than nitrogen, and there was more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past, so the atmosphere did have more buoyancy. Macaromney lurched uncontrollably into a partially correct conclusion.
Oxygen levels in atmosphere:
For the first half of the earth's existence, there was practically no oxygen in the atmosphere. About 2.4 billion years ago the Great Oxygenation Event occurred. Prior to that the atmosphere was mostly nitrogen and CO2. With the production of free oxygen by plants, the earth underwent a huge, one-time only transformation, when exposed elemental iron rusted. That's what makes all the rocks in eastern Utah red. Rust.
I found of chart of oxygen levels over the last billion years, which covers all of the time period of "interesting" life - multicellular plants and animals, not just green ooze.
For the first 400 million years, oxygen levels were at about 3%
Oxygen started climbing some tens of millions of years before the Cambrian Explosion, when sexual reproduction developed, and complex lifeforms took off with a roar. That was about 500 MYA, and the oxygen levels climbed through 15%.
As I mentioned earlier, the giant insects were around at the close of the carboniferous and beginning of the permian periods, roughly 300 MYA. The oxygen levels took a spectacular drop from 35% to 15% about 250 MYA, at about the time of the Permian Extinction, the largest extinction in earth's history (so far at least). I don't know that the two events were connected, but that would be my guess.
It took about 50 million years to get back to 20% oxygen, and then it slowly inched back up to 30% during the age of the dinosaurs.
After the end of the dinosaurs (K/T Extinction, about 70 MYA), oxygen levels went into a moderate decline from 30% down to 21% over the most recent ten or twenty million years. That's where we are today, and where we have been for the entirety of human existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth
Chart of oxygen content over the last billion years near the end of the article.
Buoyancy of the atmosphere
OK, so was the atmosphere denser, making it easier for larger animals to survive/exist? Short answer: not really. A 175 pound person displaces about 80 liters of air, which weighs just under 100 grams, or three and a half ounces. That is how much lighter a person is at sea level, than if they were in a vacuum. It's not much. If the air were twice as dense, it'd be seven ounces instead of three and a half. That's not enough difference to allow animals to become giants.
In any case, I am not aware of the atmosphere being radically more or less dense over the last billion years. It may have been somewhat denser when oxygen levels were higher. Denser air would make it easier for big birds to fly, but for land animals, it is not a factor in size.
I did look up densities of various gasses. Helium and hydrogen are of course quite low density. Oxygen (1.33 g/l) is slightly more dense than nitrogen (1.165 g/l), and water vapor is lightest 0.88 g/l. That is the reason low air pressure and rain occur together. Water vapor is lighter than dry air.
BTW, for the metric-system challenged, a gram is the weight of a dollar bill. A bank bundle of 100 bills is 100 grams, or just under a quarter pound. A liter is about 10% bigger than a quart. A liter of water weighs a kilogram, or 2.2 pounds. A pint of water weighs a pound.
FYI, densities of common gasses:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gas-density-d_158.html
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 01:30PM by Brother Of Jerry.
Thank you for this. I learn so much from you.
All this information is contained in the Temple Ceremony. You need to stop watching porn, lady!
It was actually because of the temple ceremony that I created the post. I felt I had an obligation to return and report. :)
Thanks. I try to do my bit to promote scientific literacy and fight innumeracy, as John Allen Paulos called it. It this case, there really isn't even much math, just a few unit conversions - the sort of thing a 7th grader should be able to handle.
I didn't know most of what was in my post either. I recall reading that insects were larger when oxygen levels were higher, but I didn't know the densities of the various gasses, nor how much the air a person displaces weighs. I would have guessed a few ounces on that, but now I know for sure. And I didn't know when the insects were larger.
I was not aware of the fairly radical ups and downs of the oxygen level over geologic time. When I saw the big dip in the chart at about 250 MYA, I decided to look up what was happening geologically then, and the Permian Extinction is right in the middle of the dip. Did either cause the other? Are they both the result of some other factor? I don't know, nor have I read anything that offers an explanation. That might be a dissertation project for someone!
Anyway, glad someone actually reads this stuff here. When I tried to post this this morning, the software flagged it as spam for God knows why. Probably the word "exoskeleton"! Who talks like that? It took enough time to write, that I was crushed, and sent a plea to Tevai for help. However, I pasted the post in parts, and edited in a final paste to finish the post, and that got me past the spam filter. Whew.
Some of y'all probably consider my ramblings spam anyway, but I can't fix that. :-/
I didn't know most of what was in my post either. I recall reading that insects were larger when oxygen levels were higher, but I didn't know the densities of the various gasses, nor how much the air a person displaces weighs. I would have guessed a few ounces on that, but now I know for sure. And I didn't know when the insects were larger.
I was not aware of the fairly radical ups and downs of the oxygen level over geologic time. When I saw the big dip in the chart at about 250 MYA, I decided to look up what was happening geologically then, and the Permian Extinction is right in the middle of the dip. Did either cause the other? Are they both the result of some other factor? I don't know, nor have I read anything that offers an explanation. That might be a dissertation project for someone!
Anyway, glad someone actually reads this stuff here. When I tried to post this this morning, the software flagged it as spam for God knows why. Probably the word "exoskeleton"! Who talks like that? It took enough time to write, that I was crushed, and sent a plea to Tevai for help. However, I pasted the post in parts, and edited in a final paste to finish the post, and that got me past the spam filter. Whew.
Some of y'all probably consider my ramblings spam anyway, but I can't fix that. :-/
> Some of y'all probably consider my ramblings spam
> anyway, but I can't fix that. :-/
One of the characteristics we share. . .
> anyway, but I can't fix that. :-/
One of the characteristics we share. . .
Thank you for this educational post.
BTW, insects breathe through holes in the exoskeleton called "Spiracles." My Biology credit from college was in Entomology, so I felt the need to add that.
BTW, insects breathe through holes in the exoskeleton called "Spiracles." My Biology credit from college was in Entomology, so I felt the need to add that.
Duly noted. Next time the subject of giants comes up, I will be armed with yet another bit of trivia. :)
Here's a picture of a really big grasshopper in North Dakota.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/enchanted-highway-north-dakota-gary-greff-creates-roadside-sculpture-gallery-to-attract-tourists/
Here's a picture of a really big grasshopper in North Dakota.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/enchanted-highway-north-dakota-gary-greff-creates-roadside-sculpture-gallery-to-attract-tourists/
Duh, they weren’t human giants they were Nephilim!
See makes perfect sense... /s/. :-)
See makes perfect sense... /s/. :-)