Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone knows the following statistics for Utah -

* How many missing people?
* How many known murders?
* How many known kidnappings?

How do these compare to similar states?

I know these figures are lower than Detroit or Baltimore, but it would be interesting to compare them to Nebraska or Wyoming.

"Detroit or Baltimore."

I'm sure that was inadvertent.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> "Detroit or Baltimore."
>
> I'm sure that was inadvertent.

Two cities with famously high crime rates.

You're trying to haze again. I won't reply to you again on this thread. Bye.

Two cities, which you called states, that right-wing thugs now demonize. Three years ago it was Detroit and Compton. So at least you are a trendy racist.

You can be proud of that.

I think the Danites only handle special cases.

I'm more concerned with the fact that Maria Muller thinks Baltimore and Detroit are states. It's remarkable how a single phrase can reveal racism and illogic at the same time.

On second thought, maybe it isn't remarkable at all.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> I'm more concerned with the fact that Maria Muller
> thinks Baltimore and Detroit are states.

I agree with this observation as well.

Tevai Wrote:
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> Lot's Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm more concerned with the fact that Maria
> Muller
> > thinks Baltimore and Detroit are states.
>
> I agree with this observation as well.

I didn't say anywhere that these two cities were states. I mentioned them because they are high crime areas, but not much like SLC or the state of Utah. This is not what I was interested in.

Let's take a look at what you said.

"How do these compare to similar states? I know these figures are lower than Detroit or Baltimore, but it would be interesting to compare them to Nebraska or Wyoming."

You thus introduce the subject as Utah and "similar states," then list Detroit and Baltimore as appropriate comparisons within that category, and finish by adding Nebraska and Wyoming without noticing that your list makes no sense.

Of course that logical mistake was inadvertent. But that is the point. The lack of rigor that characterizes your list of comparisons also informs your failure to acknowledge--or worse still, to care about--the underlying racist assumptions.

So you didn't do elementary internet searches to answer your question but rather asked others to do the work for you, which is lazy. You didn't pay attention to the problem of comparing cities to states, which is sloppy. And you unwittingly expressed racial prejudice that you are apparently unwilling to reconsider.

Laziness and sloppiness are not terribly significant flaws. An impulsive disregard for people unlike you, however, assuredly is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 06:36PM by Lot's Wife.

I blame Canada.

Yeah.

I’m interested in stats for Spanish speaking foreign countries such as Bolivia and Miami.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> I’m interested in stats for Spanish speaking
> foreign countries such as Bolivia and Miami.

I think North Dakota and Mexico Beach, Fla both need to get the border wall built, fast.

It is my impression that statistics like those you are asking for are provided in chronological form, such as in a particular calendar year, etc.

(Months can be statistically difficult due to the "oranges vs. apples" phenomenon: Crime statistics can vary considerably by location due to different climates, different tourist seasons, different natural disasters, etc.)

I also agree with Lot's Wife that you seem to be specifically interested in racial/ethnic differences between different parts of the country, and if this turns out to be so, then your query here may not be within the rules of this board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 07:19PM by Tevai.

Valid comparisons can only exist between population equals. Utah, Nebraska, and Wyoming are (comparatively) three of the least populated states in the United States.

In addition, they are three of the most rural states in the United States....so comparisons to Michigan or Maryland would need to be equalized not only by population numbers, but also by the "character" (rural or urban) of the states.

(Michigan, to my understanding, is partially rural, but predominately urban. Maryland, to my understanding, is vastly more urban than are Utah, Nebraska, and Wyoming--but the state is (comparatively) small in population (and area). You have asked about a literally oranges vs. apples situation, and unless you are a mathematician or statistician, I don't know how you could correct for the anomalies of the particular states/cities you are asking about.)

People are quick to jump to conclusions. I used to watch "The Wire", and the people who made it said it had some of the highest murder rates in the USA. Baltimore is a port city, so it isn't anything like Utah. I guess Baltimore is more like Seattle. Detroit is a dying city, so is different again. I didn't want to compare SLC with these because they have totally different histories. SLC isn't much like LA, NYC or Chicago because of population.

I guess you could break down rural Utah vs the bigger Utah cities too.

* Urban Utah compared to Sacramento, Denver, Boulder etc, maybe Atlanta, Twin Cities etc?

* Rural Utah compared to rural parts of California, New Mexico, Wyoming, Texas, Mississippi etc

Anyhoo, it would be interesting to see if Mormon areas have higher crime rates than similar places. The church likes to say it makes law abiding people. But then you've got the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping etc, where Mormon culture was involved.

There is a simple solution for those with a rudimentary grasp of statistics: per capital ratios.

But for some reason that didn’t occur to you.

Hey Maria, why don't you hit google and get your own info? The board is not Alexa ya know.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> Hey Maria, why don't you hit google and get your
> own info? The board is not Alexa ya know.

Google was useless. There is a Mormon angle in this. Unlike the posts about wolves or flat Earth.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/16/americas-most-violent-and-peaceful-states/39672421/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195331/number-of-murders-in-the-us-by-state/

I'm not sure anybody has any statistics for missing people.

Your assumpton that mormon areas would be higher isn't borne out.

P.S. This data was from a simple google search.

If I Google anything, the first ten results seem to be paid ads, and the next ten are not what I was after!

In that USA Today list, Utah comes out low, but it is still higher than New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts!

Idaho comes out much higher, but is ahead of Oregon, Washington and Iowa.

Here is that Statista list. Utah comes out low, but it is still ahead of the following:

Utah 60
Iowa 54 *
Delaware 48
Alaska 47
Nebraska 44 *
Hawaii 36
Idaho 35 *
Montana 34 *
Maine 24
New Hampshire 21
North Dakota 18 *
Rhode Island 16
Wyoming 13 *
South Dakota 12 *
Vermont 10

New England seems to be the safest place to be in the country! Maybe Joseph Smith shouod have remained there! I've starred some states which I think are more like Utah. Some of them have very low populations. Delaware probably gets a pass for being small. But if you remove them then there is still some interesting data -

Utah 60
Iowa 54 *
Alaska 47
Nebraska 44 *
Hawaii 36
Idaho 35 *
Montana 34 *
North Dakota 18 *
Wyoming 13 *
South Dakota 12 *

But where are the states of Detroit and Baltimore?

No one is missing in Utah.

The ones who are "missing" are on missings, or messings. Just messing around,

Yup. I think this is where this is going.

Susan I/S Wrote:
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> Yup. I think this is where this is going.

Just because I replied to that SRA thread doesn't mean I was thinking of that. Actually what I was thinking of was the following:

* Are Mormons the nice law abiding people they like to make out?
* Are there hidden problems in Utah?
* Does the Mormon attitude to women have sinistee consequences?

I know that there have been kidnappings by would-be polygamists (Elizabeth Smart). I guess that would be weirder in Florida or Maine but not so much in Utah because of its heritage.

Mormons are no more or less law abiding than any other group. You may be less likely to be murdered or carjacked in Utah, but there are other types of crimes. Utah does white-collar crimes very well indeed. For example, Utah has long been known as the "Fraud Capital of the USA." It's so bad that even the Deseret News has come out and admitted it.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/4/29/20671965/does-utah-deserve-the-title-fraud-capital-of-the-united-states

Is being defrauded worse than being the victim of a more violent crime? Perhaps, but that's cold comfort to a regular average mormon whose stake president has stolen his life savings.

Your last 2 questions are interrelated. Reporting of rape and child abuse are discouraged by the church to protect the church's so-called "good name." Bishops are instructed to report incidents to the church's law firm rather than law enforcement. Settlements (tithing money at work) are paid out with enforceable non-disclosure agreements so word rarely if ever gets out.

Even so, there has recently been a regular parade of bishops and other mormons who have been arrested and gone to prison for sexual abuse. It would be highly naïve to think that this represents anything but a fraction of the actual dirt regularly occurring behind closed church doors.

So no, not particularly law abiding. What's that biblical phrase? "Whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matthew 23:23-27) Sums it up well.

It makes you wonder how much has been covered up. When someone does go missing, could it have been stopped? I wonder how many cold cases don't get solved because people are sitting on evidence.

I bet this happens all the time in Utah since there are more temples in that state.

http://www.moroni10.com/mormon_history/logan-temple-devil.html

Satan made all those people disappear!

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> I bet this happens all the time in Utah since
> there are more temples in that state.
>
> http://www.moroni10.com/mormon_history/logan-templ
> e-devil.html
>
> Satan made all those people disappear!

There sure are a lot of bullies on RfM! This thread isn't about Satan, racism etc. Not funny.

I'm a bully? Well, why not report me? My post is hardly a personal attack.

But I blame Satan.

> This
> thread isn't about . . . racism etc.

Actually, it is about racism.

That's what happens when people inadvertently compare places like "Detroit and Baltimore," which you describe as "two cities with famously high crime rates" and places like "Utah. . . Nebraska or Wyoming." Because in today's political climate Detroit and Baltimore are used as code for minority-dominated communities and Utah, Nebraska and Wyoming are considered "white." In that sense people sometimes reveal some pretty nasty racism through their choice of places to compare.


-----------
Consider this very similar gem* from fly-by poster RianL a couple of years ago, which juxtaposed Utah and

"Compton, Detroit or LA where kids grow up without their fathers and there moms have multiple partners and kids from different relationships. They are raised to think "gangsta" culture, drugs, violence, and foul language/premarital sex is okay. They don't value education or respect of law enforcement. As a result, those neighborhoods are violent, impoverished, and devoid of humanity.

While I may not agree on everything Mormons do, you can't deny the good they do for our communities."

Have you ever met RianL? Because your description and his are very similar. The only significant difference is your substitution of Baltimore for Detroit, Baltimore having become the dog whistle du jour among right-wing cognoscenti over the last couple of years due to a change in rhetoric among leading American politicians.


------------------
> There sure are a lot of bullies on RfM!

There certainly are. That's why the board and admins try to discourage racist bullying whenever possible.




*https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1968803,1968803#msg-1968803



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2019 11:57AM by Lot's Wife.

Here's a simple site you can go crazy regarding missing people and let this board get back to it's relevant purpose.

https://www.namus.gov

Everything you ever wanted to know:
Statistical Abstract of the United States, published by the Dept of Commerce. $219, which is pretty steep, but according to the reviewer at Wapo, it totally rocks.

If they're missing, it will be a challenge to count them...


just sayin'

GNPE Wrote:
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> If they're missing, it will be a challenge to
> count them...
>
>
> just sayin'

Disappearances do get reported. If you're a drifter, hobo or shut in, then maybe not.

yes, Reported according to where last seen;
the question here is 'how many missing people (from anywhere) are (now) in Utah;

i.e. how many people from Utah and other locations are there now.

'missing' means the authorities of friends don't know where the person is...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 12:54PM by GNPE.

--you'll learn plenty about missing people in tidy Mormon subdivisions--wives especially, who just up and flee their families!

(And be sure to click on ElderOldDog's review!)

I'm missing from Utah.

If they're in Utah, are they not missing?