"The change in Utah comes after the state hammered out a regulatory rule that had the support of the influential Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Leaders had opposed a previous version because it didn’t have certain exceptions for clergy."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/so-called-conversion-therapy-banned-in-conservative-utah/ar-BBZcD1k?ocid=spartanntp



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2020 04:50AM by ragnar.

Interesting, the article says "Conversion therapy is a practice used to try to change sexual orientation or gender identity." My criticism of this ban is that kids routinely experiment in different roles as part of childhood and want to change genders like they want to change hair styles. If they go into a therapist and tell him/her that the therapist can't talk the kid out of it, but most support the fantasy. Also there are also free experimenting parents who let their toddlers "discover" their gender. They end up dressing boys up as girls and send them off to school where they'll get harassed and bullied. And no school counselor can set the kid 'straight'. Isn't that child abuse?

https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Policy_Statements/2018/Conversion_Therapy.aspx

The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry finds no evidence to support the application of any “therapeutic intervention” operating under the premise that a specific sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or gender expression is pathological. Furthermore, based on the scientific evidence, the AACAP asserts that such “conversion therapies” (or other interventions imposed with the intent of promoting a particular sexual orientation and/or gender as a preferred outcome) lack scientific credibility and clinical utility. Additionally, there is evidence that such interventions are harmful. As a result, “conversion therapies” should not be part of any behavioral health treatment of children and adolescents. However, this in no way detracts from the standard of care which requires that clinicians facilitate the developmentally appropriate, open exploration of sexual orientation, gender identity, and/or gender expression, without any pre-determined outcome.

>> "Also there are also free experimenting parents who let their toddlers "discover" their gender. They end up dressing boys up as girls and send them off to school where they'll get harassed and bullied. And no school counselor can set the kid 'straight'. Isn't that child abuse?"

No it isn't, but punishing, shaming, discipling, forcing your kid because they feel different inside is.

I feel bad for you. You find it inconceivable to untether the cart of gender from the horse of sex.

The way I read the fine print is that your Bishop can still do anything he wants and so can your Mormon therapist as long as it is labeled "spiritual counseling" and the words conversion therapy never cross anyone's lips.

The Mormons always find a way. Semantics should be an olympic event.

It's not just bishops who can "do anything he wants". The rule allows exceptions for clergy. In Mormonism, every member is a clergy person. I guess it could be limited to males, but there are plenty of female "leaders" (SS teachers, seminary teachers, etc.) who could be considered clergy. So thus conversion therapy is allowed by any Mormon anywhere.

Sure, you could try to sue after your life has been obliterated. Good luck with that. Kirton McConkie would wipe the floor with you.

slskipper Wrote:
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> Kirton
> McConkie would wipe the floor with you.

Apparently, they learned to bully in school.

"They end up dressing boys up as girls and send them off to school where they'll get harassed and bullied."

Too right I'm afraid.

perverts back in the 1970s, 1960s? How many gays thought they had to change and hated themselves? Didn't dare tell anyone?

You have a lot to learn macaromney. A therapist I went to when my marriage was breaking up said, "Be careful of your prejudices." I LEARNED the hard way. I believed what the mormon church and the world told me. I was just thinking this morning while cleaning that I am grateful for my journey and what it has taught me. I hate statements like what we go through makes us stronger, etc. No, I just survived. It didn't make me stronger. This has been rough, but I can't imagine being gay, lesbian or transgender.

I had a real eye-opening shock when I typed up a young girl who they had transferred to a different hospital after a wreck because they couldn't catheterize her. She was 13 and they didn't know she had a mixed set of sexual organs. I had never heard of that before and I was in a gay/straight marriage. So God doesn't make mistakes?

The leaders didn't send my future husband to conversion therapy. They just told me it was my job to help him change to straight with my "virtue." It was okay since we had to save a man. It was okay to sacrifice me --BOTH OF US in reality.

So, for macaromney, be careful of your prejudices.

cl2 Wrote:
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> So, for macaromney, be careful of your prejudices.

I'm afraid they are the fruits of his beliefs. They are very desirable to the taste. He would probably have an easier time quitting sugar than taking care with his prejudices. Them's hard habits to break.

Cl2, yer one o’ the best.

I worked in an Idaho Falls hospital in the 70's and remember when a baby was born there with mixed sexual organs. The baby was given a gender neutral name. I'd say nature made a big mistake there.

The big issue is why does a parent have a right to do anything they want to their child?

Parents would go to jail for physically abusing their children and bloodying them. But abusing them mentally, emotionally, psychologically? Trample their self esteem and make them suicidal? Tell them they are broken? That is a parents right in most of our society and it suits Mormons just fine when it comes to their kids being LGBTQ.

This law does not limit Mormon bigotry against their own children but ensures it.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> This law does not limit Mormon bigotry against
> their own children but ensures it.


This law does not limit Mormon bigotry against their own children but enshrines it.

Well put, D&D.