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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 12:59AM

The principal of “having your calling and election made sure”, has always been a very curious principal to me. It strikes me as not being a very egalitarian concept but a concept accessible to a very select few of the Mormon hierarchy. The Mormon church has been very critical of the Protestant principal of being “saved by grace”. Ironically, the Protestant principal of “being saved by grace” is in fact a very egalitarian principal unlike the concept of “having your calling and election made sure”.

The upper echelon of the Mormon hierarchy which includes prophets, apostles, 70s, some mission presidents, Temple presidents, family members of these elites and close associates are the ones that typically receive this special ordination.

Now it would seem to me that this upper echelon selected by God should be so worthy as to not require a get out of hell free card. Yet this very select group elected by God needs to be protected from all sorts of mortal sins for which the average member would be judged and condemned to hell. Am I the only one or does it strike anyone else as extremely paradoxical?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 01:08AM

Birdman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Mormon church has been very
> critical of the Protestant principal of being
> “saved by grace”. Ironically, the Protestant
> principal of “being saved by grace” is in fact
> a very egalitarian principal...

Agree. Concurrent with this principle is the "priesthood of all believers" (1 Peter 2:9).
>
> Now it would seem to me that this upper echelon
> selected by God should be so worthy as to not
> require a get out of hell free card. Yet this very
> select group elected by God needs to be protected
> from all sorts of mortal sins for which the
> average member would be judged and condemned to
> hell. Am I the only one or does it strike anyone
> else as extremely paradoxical?

That is a simply fascinating (!) observation, Birdman! If Heavenly Father gifts the hierarchy with spiritual discernment, then it follows (theoretically) that they would discern the most worthy of men for such high office, and being oh-so-worthy, why would they need a "'get out of hell' free card?"

Bravo.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 01:20AM

My surmise is that the "get out of hell free" card was designed not to recognize virtue and good works but to encourage bad ones.

The Second Anointing was devised when church leaders were experimenting with polygamy, generally considered sinful; the Danites were active; and church leaders were lying constantly. What the 2A did was assure those people that any sin they committed in the name of the church was forgiven. It bound the church's leadership together in a secret combination that could do whatever was necessary to promote its own interests.

Some of that continues today. The apostles and prophets lie constantly, betray members in cases that might embarrass the church, and break laws on campaign finance and other things. The 2A is their guarantee that such sins do not matter.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 01:33AM


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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 02:18AM

Hartman Rector Jr’s daughter just did an interview with Mormon Stories and she said her dad had his calling and election made sure. He supposedly wasn’t supposed to tell anyone but he told his family.

I think you are right. It makes sinning to protect the church justified. Whether that’s lying or anything else. It’s a secret combination. So I guess we could say the church is led by a bunch of mobsters. Ha! Ha!

Explains why Gordo easily told lies and some of the smug attitude you see up at the top of the church.

Apparently anyone the brethren feel they can trust this ordinance is given to. Unfortunately some broke their trust and spilled the beans. The church leadership don’t live the same standards the rest of the church membership are expected to live.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 02:25AM

> The
> church leadership don’t live the same standards
> the rest of the church membership are expected to
> live.

That is one of the main reasons I left the church: prophets and apostles, if honest, couldn't pass the baptismal interview to which eight-year-olds are subjected. So I think I'll just follow the children and be rid of the cadaverous old men.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 02:30AM

Funny. Jesus’ apostles were expected to obey the same commandments as everyone else. Jesus made no exceptions even for himself. Looks like the LDS leaders fall way short of being representatives of the savior they so love to claim they get their authority from.

Well doesn’t the Book of Mormon warn us against secret combinations and doesn’t it say polygamy is wrong? I guess if you have the second anointing that doesn’t apply to you.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 02:30AM

Dear Caffiend,

I suspect that Dan Brown has enough sense not to want to write a book where the past members are so sick of the Mormon Delusion that they would not bother and that the remaining members, being blind to the 100 billion dollar Mormon fraud, would be unmoved.

I often wonder, with so many people posting on this website, are there any TB Mormons actually moved to reconsider their religion or is this life preserver (this website) being ignored as the TB happily drown?

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 05:27AM

These are interesting points of view.

One thing bothers me about all your theories: you are assuming that the LDS elite leaders actually BELIEVE all of this Mormon crap, in the first place. I've always felt that these geezers were deliberately lying, changing history, excusing JS's crimes, hiding their financial records, putting different slants on things, in order to keep their money-making con afloat. They've got to know it's a con. They've got to realize that money is their main motive. They falsely advertise, they sell false promises, they threaten those who try to leave, they lie about family togetherness, etc. I mean--the top Mormon leaders have to KNOW they are doing all of this, right?

If they know that their cult is a hoax, then why would they think the cult could control God's forgiveness, at all? Do they even believe in God? They don't seem to fear God's wrath, as they have false prophets. They must know, as my grandfather did, that the Mormon prophets have never talked to or heard from God or Christ. The Mormons lie when they claim to speak for God, and they blaspheme against God when they say he is a polygamist, and they seem confident that God won't punish them for all of this, why? Because the leaders think there's no such thing as God?. With no God, why would a "second anointing ritual" mean anything to them? Is this sort of a group-delusion? A mass-hysteria? Do the GA's bond together in a big lie, and hold each other hostage to it, for a 3 billion dollar ransom?

(It's no big mystery that most Mormons who find out it's a hoax, and leave, end up as atheists.)

The whole thing is so convoluted and secret and evil, that I can't sift out the truth, here. Grandpa did not believe in a lot of JS's specifics about the Mormon CK. I can't imagine him really believing in such a thing as a second anointing, sanctioned by God, or that any man would have the authority to grant this kind of holy amnesty. The scriptures are very straightforward about not judgning others, and the SA goes way beyond judging.

Birdman, the Mormon cult is "bleeding members", who are leaving in droves as we write. There are a lot of valid reasons to leave, and more reasons are being added to the list, every few months, it seems. The scam is on-going. The Mormons change their words, but the hatred behind them remains. For example, it disgusts me how they try to placate the women, by throwing them a tiny bone once in a while, but everyone knows that the mysogyny is still there. They were placating the gays, when they changed their mind about allowing their children to be baptized. They've been manipulating people into believeing they aren't racist, through twisted words and videos of ethnic-looking people in Conference. They're pretending to do charity aid and disaster relief, in yellow tee shirts and camera crews, while they hoard tithing money, and use it to bail out their failing mall and insurance company. Missions aren't to convert people (certainly not to help them) but to get more money out of the missionaries' families, and keep everyone deeply submerged in the cult. Temples are real estate acquisitions, and it's all tax-free. GBH says the church no longer practices polygamy, but they believe in polygamy in the hereafter. It's just words. Lies. The cult has always abused children mentally--mine were abused physicaly--and has always excused the crimes of wealthy male tithe-payers. There have been such a huge number of crimes, such a great variety of scams going on, that more members are finding out about them, through being victims themselves, having friends and family members victimized, reading about everything on the internet, watching reports on the news, reading National newspapers--no matter how much the church and it's Deseret News and KSL tries to cover up--no matter how strongly the leaders deny.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 11:56AM

I don’t know if your comments were specifically addressed to my original post, however I would like to make a clarification based upon your comments. I did not post a theory. My original post was based upon an observation that I felt was paradoxical.

We have the Mormon Church disparaging Protestants for their belief in the principal of grace. The Mormon church places a greater emphasis on individual works. A paradox exists between the Mormon insistence on works and the absolute forgiveness of any sin committed by the leadership elite by virtue of their implementation of the second anointing. The Mormons insist that their leadership is called of God. The expectations placed upon the laity seems greater than the expectation placed upon their hierarchy. I’m trying to point out a doctrinal inconsistency or at worst an extreme irony.

If we assume that there is a theoretical component to this conversation it would be the assumption that we know what the beliefs are of the Mormon hierarchy.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 06:19AM

So, what happens with Wendy? Did Rusty and Wendy do the second anointing together, too, after or during their temple marriage?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 05:26PM

...and was Sheri Do-Dew sealed to Rusty, as well! You know Wendy and Sheri would have requested it!

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 28, 2020 01:04PM

We will never know, but I think it's beyond weird that the three stooges go everywhere together; even on official church assignments. I personally don't care save for the fact that if they are engaged in an unholy union then they should be cast out of the church for hypocrisy.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 12:10PM

calling and election made sure is just another con

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 27, 2020 04:27PM

I think that the 2nd Annointing ritual is a device to convince believers [at the high church level] that what they might see or be asked to do is fine and dandy so long as they have assurance that lying, deceiving and stealing for the lord is an acceptable practice.

I think some people believe that they were chosen to rise above the rest due to their excessive spirituality, but when it's in fact a relative/friend who has chosen them to ascend the church leadership ranks.

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Posted by: nli ( )
Date: January 28, 2020 05:25PM

Coincidentally, my story that was one of the prize-winners in the Rfm contest, is actually a chapter in a pseudoautobiographical Mormon erotic novel that I am working on, and the chapter preceding that one deals (quite blasphemously) with the Second Anointing.

I would gladly share it to those non-prudish souls who like good erotica. It's about eleven pages long.

pliant60502@mypacks.net

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