When you were a member, did you bear your testimony?

I have several TBM family members who never do, but the are offended when I question or disagree with anything about the church.

When I think of "testimony" I imagine someone in court officially asserting something that they observed, but the facts asserted by Mormons in their testimonies are almost never falsifiable.

I understand that churches often have their own spin on language, but this seems like equivocation.

What did testimony mean to you when you were in the LDS church?

For one, I'm an introvert. I only bore my testimony when forced like at girls' camp when they'd go around the circle. I also felt that my beliefs were mine alone and that I didn't like to share those things. I didn't pray in front of others either. I've never prayed in front of my "husband." Here I needed to save him from being gay and I couldn't pray in front of him. I probably prayed with my kids only a few times. I'm just not the type that wants to share my deepest feelings even with those closest to me.

I never found myself in debates about the church. I do have nonmormon friends who I've had for 50 years or so. We had discussed it in the past. We discussed why I left. The only debate I ever had was about gays with my Catholic friend. He was challenging me on believing they are perverts, etc., what I had been taught in my "youth." I had a big surprise coming when the mormon guy I was finally dating told me he is gay. I pressured him to tell me what he was hiding. And if you read here, you know the story.

My daughter used to try to debate me about not believing anymore. She would end up screaming at me and me in tears. I resigned and she has left me alone since.

I never possessed a testimony and absolutely detested F&T meeting and the blubbering and sobbing. I would never have stood up and participated in that drama.

As a kid, I recall mom whispering in my ear a couple times while I repeated the words into the microphone....scared $#!^less the entire time....horrible experience.

I was a very young rebel, and fully inactive by the time I was a Deacon.

AT 21 I was looking for a better path in life and was ready to break from my peers and focus on me, and transition into the adult world where I would be seen as equal to those I perceived as adults. I ended up fully active and went on a mission.

As I was going through this process, I was "learning" how to fit in with my new surroundings. So I "learned" how to bear a testimony, and bear a very good and convincing one at that. On the mish, I "learned" how to sell the churches product and my testimony bearing got even better.

When I returned home, I liked the responses I got from it and knew I was doing it right, and was seen as a peer now by the other adults. I found acceptance in it, largely from my dad...finally.

I knew I was saying that I knew it was true, but I also knew I didn't have any proof, other than me deciding to go along with it, learning how to do it, and enjoying the response I got from it.

So for me, it was very much learned behavior that was working for me at that point in my life. Once I really knew it was bunk, it was easy to let go of it and admit I didn't "know" anything.

It was just like anything in life....learn how, do it good, get what it brings you.....Applying that to my life and career has served me far better than a testimony ever did.

Boy, it really varied over time.

When I was a kid, I would bear testimony sometimes--because that was what you were supposed to do. But, generally I didn't like to.

As a teenager, I rarely gave mine in fast and testimony meetings. Sometimes we had small group meetings at scout camps, youth conferences, etc. where it was kind of expected.

On my mission, I kind of lost my mind and bore it all the time--because that's what we did. It was almost a habit. Afterward, I had a residual of this for awhile, but gradually I started to believe in the LDS Church less and less. By the time I was into a full on faith crisis, I really tried to avoid settings where that would be expected.

Growing up, I only gave my testimony once during F&TM, and given my masturbatory history, I felt that it was a tarnished testimony. I was not a candidate for the Celestial Kingdom, although I did believe that people I believed in believed it. Complicated? Yes, but it worked for me.

So it was very much a relief that I lost any semblance of a testimony of the divinity of the gospel when I went through the temple just before the mission.

That allowed me to give very strong, very fervent testimonies at the Mission Home, the LTM and during lessons, etc, in the mission field. In essence, it was the same as lying to the Bishop about my sexual purity; everyone was happy that I was following the party line.

There MUST be a god…. He entertained me by the strangest LDS experiences in retrospect.
TESTAMONIES
I bore my false witness of what i didn't know wasn't true only twice, when I was 11 and 12.

By the time I was 13, there was too much that didn't feel right and I never bore or spoke at the pulpit again. Didn't leave for many decades though… I just kept going back.

Fast and testimony Sunday was always my favorite, especially in the early to mid-1990s—the Apex of the loonies! In that time frame my ward had a bishop I will refer to as Blimpy. Not that I am mocking his large carriage and frame, but he used to teach the young men at firesides that when the devil tempted you with the pleasures of the flesh, the best way to overcome it was to consume a large meal of your favorite food. That poor 350 lbs. of sexual frustration.
Never the less Blimpy believed that it was wrong to curb any testimony at the pulpit, no matter how off base—as long as it didn’t directly condemn the church.

Fast and Testimony Meeting, I called it, still do, OPEN MIKE SUNDAY.

My favorite testimony givers were war story, cowboy and dingy. They never missed a month!

Dingy was a nice lady who would pray about everything for guidance and take no action until the lord revealed the way. In the grocery store the question of chunky vs creamy peanut butter was cause for prayer. “We must follow gods will.” This nice lady also put a stop to a church scout fundraiser cake walk because “Games of chance are wicked!” My favorite, of sister dingy, was when she needed to buy a new washing machine. After days of fasting and prayer she decided the selection of appliances must be in front of her for the will of the lord to manifest. In Sears she claimed to get down on her knees and pray to heavenly father openly and very vocally “Oh lord which washer shall I buy?” And the lord said “Thou shalt buy a whirl pool, for Maytag is the appliance of the dammed!” …and we got to hear all about it in detail on open mike Sunday.

War story was an old man, who had suffered a stroke and had seizures. He served in world war two, somewhere in the center of the continental united states. He saw no combat and always remarked ‘the war years were the happiest time of his life’ their was almost no limit to the praise he gave the lord for the joys and wonders of the war years and ask god to show others the bliss it brought to those who understood it as he did. He refused to take his seizure meds on open mike Sunday as it would break his fast…. Thus really making his testimony an unforgettable experience. He kept a tape recorder beside his bed while he slept because his patriarchal blessing said he would receive revelation from god as he slept. And when he woke at 2am he would grab the recorded and record whatever he could remember from his dreams. Then the next day he would transcribe it and analyze. Then on open mike Sunday, we would get a report of the highlights of his dreams over the past month.

Cowboy was an old man who spent his life mostly alone on a saddle on the range. Every time he returned to civilization the decadence was greater and greater. To which we would get a report of it on open mike Sunday. “They are giving condoms away in our schools! Modern architecture is designed to invoke the devil into buildings! Having surgery by a non LDS doctor will lead to apostasy. Any child not conceived through the garment will be a son of perdition. Birds never poop on the roof of the temple. The government has collected all the proof of the book of Mormon and locked it away in the dug way proving grounds. TV is a satanic portal. To dispel the power of the devil, learn to lead the singing! Waving your arm in 4:4 time will soothe the savage beast. No soldier was ever injured in a part of their body that was covered by the garment. He could really get wrapped up for open mike Sunday.

Unfortunately in the latter 1990s, the bishopric changed and the loonies were silenced, one by one by our new Bishop ‘prideful in humility’.

When I was in college, there was an Institute of Religion next to campus... for some reason I kept going. Every time I walked in I knew the Emperor had no clothes. After an hour, I would sometimes be teetering on the wow, it COULD be true, other times far from it. 5 minutes after leaving the building, deception unveiled again. For some unfathomable reason I returned day after day, week after week, for many years. I smoked, I drank, I caroused, but for some reason I kept going. I wore Iron Maiden and Megadeth T-shirts. I knew my scriptures and I knew my doctrine... I also knew it was bogus tripe, yet I kept going and subjecting myself to it over and over. Why? I’m still not sure. I didn't give a dime in tithing since I was a teenager. (I figured out once they got $892 of my hard earned dollars—I feel luckier than most).

On the subject of testimonies, one B of M class was taught by a voulenteer couple. The man was often sick and his wife usually taught all his lessons. "Today were going to talk about Nephi" so she passed out pictures of Nephi and glue sticks so we could affix them to our scriptures (Yes, college level courses and age level). I referred to her as sister color book. At one point she came to a section where Nephi was opposed by Laman and Lemule. "Now does anyone know how Nephi overcame his wicked brothers?" Asinine answers followed "He was righteous, so he was stronger and overpowered them!" "He used the power of the priesthood to subdue them!" "He prayed against them" "God favored him and thus he could not fail"
Ugh....
But sister color book corrected the class....
"No, when Nephi was threatened by his brothers or when they would not follow the will of god, Nephi bore his testimony to them. It made it so they could not speak, nor fight nor hurt him, nor mock him! Bearing our testimonies is one of the most powerful tools we as members of the church have. Sisters, bearing your testimony is as strong as any priesthood power the brothers have. The testimony is the ultimate weapon against the adversary!"
The class then beamed with smiles and nods of confused understanding.

This lead to sister color book dedicating the rest of the class period to "Practicing our testimonies"

"It must start with I KNOW, not I believe, or I think, but I KNOW. The words I KNOW convey the power of the testimony and without them, the testimony is not a testimony."

More nods of understanding.

"We always touch on the MAIN POINTS which are the TRUTH of the CHURCH, JOSEPH SMITH the PROPHET, The TRUTH of the BOOK OF MORMON, The TEMPLE is the GATEWAY to HEAVEN, and TITHING is the KEY to PROSPERITY."

More nods....

These are the five points of the testimony. Sister color book then wrote testimony on the chalk board and had the phrase I KNOW in quotation marks below it. From it, she drew five lines out from it to each point and wrote CHURCH, BOM, JSP, TEMPLE, and TITHING.

I kept thinking what a nice pentagram.

Then came some questions. Blond haired blue eyed Future RM in front ask "Wouldn’t it be more powerful if you said I know the BOM is a FACT?"

The beautiful response "FACTS have no power, TRUTHS have power." More nods...
"If 2 friends came up to you and offered you a piece of their favorite gum, which would you choose? Friend 1 Says 'My gum tastes best and that’s a fact!' (She shook her head with a bit of a frown). Friend 2 says 'The Truth is my gum is the best tasting gum ever!' (She smiled a smile like she broke wind and blamed it on the dog). You see? TRUTHS are very powerful and FACTS are not. Many times FACTS can be used to confuse and deceive, whereas the TRUTH stands by itself! More nods.... Im about to do a face palm.... (i still can’t explain why the HELL i kept going all those years---I got both the institutes standard diploma and the advanced certificate--I took every class except for HOPE QUIOR)

I must add that Sister Color Books smile was like unto a crack in the walls of hell. I could smell the Sulphur and hear the screams of the dammed through her smile.

Then she began going around the room. We all took turns practicing bearing our testimonies. Basically she would coach and mold till each fit the mold:

"I know the church is true. I know the church is the restoration of the original church as established by Christ. I know the book of Mormon is true. I know that Joseph smith was the prophet chosen by god to restore the true church to its original purity, I know the book of Mormon was translated by joseph from the golden plates by the gift and power of god. I know the temple is the only path to heaven and eternal life with our father and our families, and I know that the path to prosperity and happiness in this life and to avoid the burning like stubble at the second coming is to pay a full and honest tithing."

Luckily, time ran out before it got to me. I assumed when we started up the next class period this would be done and we would be back to the watered down milk of sister color books interpretation of the BOM.

NOT SO!

Next time....More testimony practice! But it started over at the front of the room. Ended 2 before my turn. Next time, more practice, but also the sharing of anecdotes of when testimonies saved us. UGH! Stories of peer pressure dissipated when someone bore their testimony. When the adversary was felt, the testimony is the only defense.

One girl even told about when she was broken down in her car in a severe snow storm, she sat in her car and bore her testimony over and over loudly to keep Satan outside the car until help came. Another great story, when grandpa was on his death bed, the family gathered round, gave the blessing of release and then took turns bearing their testimony’s until he died to help him focus on heaven as he went. A gal who was learning sign language said the only reason she learned to sign was so she could bear her testimony to non-believers in a way that they wouldn’t mock her, but it would subconsciously sink in.

This went on for the rest of the week. Then Friday come, I was sitting in the back, and sister color book decided to start from the back this time. Nailed.

Ugh, I kept saying pass, no comment, not interested, no thank you, etc. but sister color book was not detoured. Everyone will must bear the witness!

"Zelph the Apostate, this is one of the most important things you will ever learn. It will probably save your life one day."

I still steadfastly and politely refused. Couldn’t help myself, my smart--assed sarcastic nature came forward.

"The book of Mormon is as true today as it was when it was written."

Sister color book looked like she just took a drink from a glass that she expected to be grape juice and got v8. "That’s good Zelph! You’re getting it. But we need to E-X-P-A-N-D it more. Tell people the truth you know about the church and joseph smith.” And then she very gently explained about “the translation of the book of Mormon--because if we say it was written it will confuse people"

Luckily, time ran out. Next week, more practice, but it never came back to me. A few more days of practice...it finally ended with a contest of who could tell their testimony the fastest. Who could hit the most important points without mentioning unimportant things. Who could bear their testimony in the fewest words.

Before I ran to the hills and threw the splinters of my broken, rotten shelf into the fire, I did have one more ‘good’ testimony experience. I was sitting in meeting, front row with mom and the organ. it was open mike Sunday. Bishop open mouth (guy always had his mouth slightly open) and his councilors Methuselah (Dad once said "he so old, when you look in his eyes you can see the back of his skull") and pill popper sat upon the stand practicing their unique skills of sleeping with their eyes open. There was a long spell without a babbler. Bishop open mouth leaned over to pill popper and whispered. Pill popper looked worried and whispered back. It was fairly obvious they were quietly arguing about something…. Little did I know I was the object of their discussion. Pill Popper finally got up and said “The um bishop um has been um inspired by the lord that um uh… that… brother ZELPH THE APOSTATE must bear his testimony. I looked up and gave them a blank stare. Pill popper gave me a ‘don’t blame the messenger’ look. I continued to sit there and said nothing. Pill popper looked back at Bishop open mouth and said loud enough the congregation could hear “It aint happening”
A nice chuckle went up from the congregation.
Open mouth then gave me the finger motion to come hither. I then went from angry mad to evil sadistic mad and couldn’t help myself and began to grin from ear to ear in the creepiest way possible. I stared at open mouth and I think I stopped blinking. His face was a look of confusion I could almost see the though in his head “He doesn’t understand.”
Finally one of our stalwart ward loonies got up to take the pulpit to tell us of their latest vision, but open mouth stopped her and ask her to sit and wait, so she sat down on the stand. Open mouth then stood up and took the pulpit “Brother Zelph, the Lord has made it clear to me you will bear your testimony.”
I know it was now or never. I was somewhat worried that I would do something stupid and think of the best course of action later when the chance had passed. In a moment, I wondered ‘should I throw a hym book at him?” Should I fly the finger? Should I get up and go off on a looney tirade at the pulpit about the evil found in Twinkies?
But I felt the spirit. Without blinking more than a second I said loudly and firmly “No sir, the lord told me to stay right here.” Rounds of laughter went up as open mouth went red faced and tight lipped for the first time ever. Yes, for the first time in uncounted years HE CLOSED HIS MOUTH AND IT STAYED CLOSED.
Luckily, the looney lady stood up and then began to tell about the last time the power went off she was inspired by a plastic stature of Jesus on her nightstand that told her in a darkening world, Jesus’s light would always shine.
This incident was about a year of so before I stopped coming. Still don’t know why in the hell I kept coming for so many decades after I knew beyond a doubt it was bunk.

Ah, Testimonies!
I have my Dads BOM. He only wrote one thing in the entire book. It is his testimony; “In case of fire, through this book in the fire.”

Indeed, I felt the spirit,

Zelph,

Laughing so hard the tears are rolling down my cheeks!

You should write a book of memoirs!

So funny. Your framing what F&T was had me laughing my ass off!

Clever and true. You should be writing for SNL. They need they need the upgrade.

Zelph, you have a gift for seeing the comedy in the human experience (and perhaps you kept going because there was no shortage of comedic material there.) You are a great storyteller!

"The spirit whispers this to me and tells me that im screwed..."

Zelph The Apostate--that was great! Thank you! You are really funny! I love your observations of people, your descriptive names for them, and the dialogs, your story. It is all very relatable, and hilarious at the same time. Well done! >^..^<

Ha-ha! I love your testimonies!

"The book of Mormon is as true today as it was when it was written."

and

"The spirit whispers this to me and tells me that I'm screwed."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2020 04:15PM by forestpal.

For me a testimony is an emotional reaction, where as, faith is the result of all of life's experiences to that point.

Hence the Mormon Church is very clever to emphasize testimony over faith which is far less dependant on logic or facts

So Ex Mormons are those where faith has triumphed.

In my case I gave my Testimony once and under pressure from others, but eventually fortunately, my strong belief in the existence of a God and the teachings of Jesus won the day.

outin76

I did once, but it was pretty much faked as it was done under pressure. I did manage to fool others into thinking it was genuine even though I didn't cry at all, but I think my TBM ex realized I was faking because I didn't stop reading everything I could get my hands on, and I was still asking too many questions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 11:23AM by doyle18.

DH asks why I read negative stuff like RfM. I tell him, “Because it’s funny and brilliant!”

Thanks, Zelphtheapostate! :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 12:14PM by kathleen.

Catholics (and many mainstream Protestants) have a different way of bearing testimony, the Apostles' Creed. The Apostles' Creed in some version goes back to the earliest days of the Christian church. In the Catholic church it was a part of the service every Sunday. We stated it together as a church community -- "I believe in God the father, creator of heaven and Earth..." etc. Even as a young child, I had it quickly memorized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

The thing that seems unique to me about Mormon testimonies is that TBMs seem to expect that their vocalized testimony of belief is somehow catching, like the common cold -- if they state their belief often enough and clearly enough, others will be inspired by the Spirit to share that belief.

The Catholics that I grew up with did not think of their testimony in the same way. A testimony is what you believe, and is private and personal. It has nothing to do with what anyone else may or may not believe. If someone expresses an interest in their faith, they will gladly direct you to classes in which the church doctrine is taught. If you come to believe in it, fine, and if not, that's fine as well.

I can almost guarantee that if a Catholic or mainstream Protestant listened to a Mormon bearing a testimony, they would be completely bewildered, and think, "Okay, that's what you believe. Your belief is your belief. What does that have to do with what I believe?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 01:17PM by summer.

That was my impression of the first and only testimony services I went to with my 100% Poly girl friend. There was the crying and how they knew JS was the prophet, the BOM was the most correct book and the only source of the restored gospel.
When she asked me what I thought, I said I'm thought that it was preaching to the choir.
I asked why they had to keep saying how they know these thing and if there were other topics at these testimony service.
GF said they all followed the same general theme.
I was never invited back to another testimony.
We agreed to discuss religions but not to argue about, basically this is what I believe and that's what you believe.....now let's go make out.

Thank you all for supportive comments. I am considering dropping a few of the gems of my days with the Cojcolds (sounds like a tropical affliction) on this site for all to enjoy.

This site has always been a godsend to know that it's not me, it's them. Your stories raise my spirits. I need to give back. <= my testimony.

December 1966 I was home from Ricks on Christmas break and the bishop asked me to speak at SM about my first semester in "The Idaho Gulag" (my description). I got up, nervous (not much of a public speaker back then) until I got rolling and told of the water fights on our dorm floor and the friends I'd made.

Judging by the look on the bishops mug I think he expected me to wax poetic about my newfound testimony of the truthfulness of the BofM, yada, yada, yada. The truth underlying it all was that my 3 months in Wrecksberg was leading me away from the cult at warp 6.

Of course I made up stuff and the congregation swallowed it whole!!

From little kids to old members, it sounded ridiculous. It even bothered my Dad and he would openly claim "How does anybody really know?" I know that he didn't care for 90 percent of regurgitated vomit.

I avoided saying one for the longest time. I was always butting heads with the youth leaders and their "I don't know what to do. Let's spend time in an impromptu testimony meeting." Sure, I was going to church, but only through fear and coercion.

Unfortunately, I decided to serve a mission. That's when I started to bear them. You couldn't openly express doubts with the mission president.

Ricks College - spring of 1979 during mother/daughter week so there were lots of moms there; got up and bore my testimony for the first time since I was 12 years old. Lots of tears and drama but I did it.
Prior to this the young women had essentially ignored me, but after my testimony, many young women and their moms came up to me afterwards and wanted to talk to me and tell me how touching my testimony was. Wow that was an eye opener!