Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Long time lurker since 2000 or so.
I think my shelf finally has come crashing down and I'm beyond enraged.
All those lies, all those platitudes disguised as caring.... all those "you will ONLY be happy if you're TBM and don't have a unique thought in your mind" - I'm overwhelmed by the pain. The sheer neverending pain.
And the shunning! The "we love you so we shun you because it is for your own good." What loving God could support that?
I'm desperately in search of seeing how other people have dealt with it? What did you do to pull yourself out this horrible horrible cult, especially if everyone else in your family think YOU are the one with the issues??
Thx in advance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 06:40PM by brokenshelfhelp.
I think my shelf finally has come crashing down and I'm beyond enraged.
All those lies, all those platitudes disguised as caring.... all those "you will ONLY be happy if you're TBM and don't have a unique thought in your mind" - I'm overwhelmed by the pain. The sheer neverending pain.
And the shunning! The "we love you so we shun you because it is for your own good." What loving God could support that?
I'm desperately in search of seeing how other people have dealt with it? What did you do to pull yourself out this horrible horrible cult, especially if everyone else in your family think YOU are the one with the issues??
Thx in advance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2020 06:40PM by brokenshelfhelp.
One feels safe in assuming that you are at least 28 years old...
I like to think that the only person over whom you have any control is yourself. Okay, maybe your kids...for awhile. Your spouse? Only if you're the female.
So assuming I'm right, that you only have 'some' control over yourself (the qualifier is in because we all have roles we've accepted that we have to play), what can you do in terms of no longer identifying as a mormon, and actually get away with?
It varies...
You're probably going to have to tell us more. But you pretty much already have it figured out.
I know many of here are happy to try to help, but the more we know, the more precise the advice will be.
I like to think that the only person over whom you have any control is yourself. Okay, maybe your kids...for awhile. Your spouse? Only if you're the female.
So assuming I'm right, that you only have 'some' control over yourself (the qualifier is in because we all have roles we've accepted that we have to play), what can you do in terms of no longer identifying as a mormon, and actually get away with?
It varies...
You're probably going to have to tell us more. But you pretty much already have it figured out.
I know many of here are happy to try to help, but the more we know, the more precise the advice will be.
You need to get yourself an "Elf on the Faith Shelf". The Elf knows the church is false and is always watching you from its shelfy perch (even though the shelf is breaking). It knows when you're sinking back into droning, church like, obedient mormon behavior and beginning to doubt your doubts.
So if you want to be on the Elf's "nice" list and be rewarded with the gift of peace and happiness, you should be glad you realized the church isn't true and you no longer have to follow its silly rules or don the magic underwear or give your hard earned money. Tip a cold beer to the Elf and have a laugh!
You just got a major chunk of time and money back so be happy. As for the mental frustration this realization is causing you (and maybe dividing of family and friends), that may take a while to go away, and in some cases may require the help of others.
So if you want to be on the Elf's "nice" list and be rewarded with the gift of peace and happiness, you should be glad you realized the church isn't true and you no longer have to follow its silly rules or don the magic underwear or give your hard earned money. Tip a cold beer to the Elf and have a laugh!
You just got a major chunk of time and money back so be happy. As for the mental frustration this realization is causing you (and maybe dividing of family and friends), that may take a while to go away, and in some cases may require the help of others.
"...may take a while to go away, and in some cases may require the help of others."
I think this is the most extreme understatement I've ever read on RfM.
This person has been lurking for 20 years. Cutting ties and becoming apostate in some situations is PTSD-inducing.
I think this is the most extreme understatement I've ever read on RfM.
This person has been lurking for 20 years. Cutting ties and becoming apostate in some situations is PTSD-inducing.
Does levity escape you? I know nothing about this poster, so I'm speaking in very general terms regarding what recovery may look like. It may just take time. It may take talking with others. It may take therapy. I'm not underestimating anything because I'm not making a definitive statement.
Geez dude, lay off.
Geez dude, lay off.
Lay off? Um, no. It was in my opinion insensitive regardless of what you want to believe.
You obviously don't like my opinion so you lay off me and feel free to have some of your own levity but not at my expense.
You obviously don't like my opinion so you lay off me and feel free to have some of your own levity but not at my expense.
You must be offended. I’ll leave a plate of cardboard-tasting sugar cookies on your doorstep.
That would be insult to injury but hey, I'll give those cookies to my elf on the shelf. It might cheer him up. He needs some levity because he lives in such a broken down place.
Welcome to the board! I'm glad that you decided to come out of lurkdom.
I think the important thing to know is that you don't owe anyone an explanation for your relationship with the Mormon faith. You will need to think about how you want to talk about it -- perhaps by saying that you are inactive, or taking time off from the church. If anyone asks, say that it's a personal decision and that you don't want to discuss it. Remember that just because someone asks a question, does not mean that you need to answer it. You can redirect the discussion instead.
If it's progressed further than that, and you are ready to resign, you can state that the Mormon church does not meet your own personal standards. If other people wish to practice the faith, then fine, but you don't want to be a part of it.
If people shun you, that's on them. Some exmos walk right up to the shunners and insist that they acknowledge them. Some just ignore the shunners. I had a woman in my building who shunned me for years due to a perceived slight, and I simply ignored her and occasionally chucked at her. I found laughing at her therapeutic. If she wants to behave like a silly goose, let her.
Also know that other people are going to think what they are going to think, and you have no control over that. They secret is not to care what they think. Hold your head up and carry on. Those people are living in a bubble and have little knowledge of the outside world. Let them live in ignorance. There is nothing that you can do about it. Someday they will hopefully figure out that Mormonism is not all that. The Mormon church is a tiny, insignificant faith in the scheme of things.
Best wishes to you. Keep posting!
I think the important thing to know is that you don't owe anyone an explanation for your relationship with the Mormon faith. You will need to think about how you want to talk about it -- perhaps by saying that you are inactive, or taking time off from the church. If anyone asks, say that it's a personal decision and that you don't want to discuss it. Remember that just because someone asks a question, does not mean that you need to answer it. You can redirect the discussion instead.
If it's progressed further than that, and you are ready to resign, you can state that the Mormon church does not meet your own personal standards. If other people wish to practice the faith, then fine, but you don't want to be a part of it.
If people shun you, that's on them. Some exmos walk right up to the shunners and insist that they acknowledge them. Some just ignore the shunners. I had a woman in my building who shunned me for years due to a perceived slight, and I simply ignored her and occasionally chucked at her. I found laughing at her therapeutic. If she wants to behave like a silly goose, let her.
Also know that other people are going to think what they are going to think, and you have no control over that. They secret is not to care what they think. Hold your head up and carry on. Those people are living in a bubble and have little knowledge of the outside world. Let them live in ignorance. There is nothing that you can do about it. Someday they will hopefully figure out that Mormonism is not all that. The Mormon church is a tiny, insignificant faith in the scheme of things.
Best wishes to you. Keep posting!
brokenshelfhelp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm desperately in search of seeing how other
> people have dealt with it? What did you do to
> pull yourself out this horrible horrible cult,
> especially if everyone else in your family think
> YOU are the one with the issues??
I dealt with depression first and then the rage. Coming here was good. My anger wasn't always accepted. I had many deleted posts.
I'm still married to and the father of Mormons. I wish I could pull out of this cult like some here have. If that isn't an option then dealing with this cult becomes somewhat of an artform because like you said it is YOU with the issues. They are just like they always are and were. That is one of the most infuriating feelings I think we can have. You are the crazy one yet they are the blindsided cult members.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm desperately in search of seeing how other
> people have dealt with it? What did you do to
> pull yourself out this horrible horrible cult,
> especially if everyone else in your family think
> YOU are the one with the issues??
I dealt with depression first and then the rage. Coming here was good. My anger wasn't always accepted. I had many deleted posts.
I'm still married to and the father of Mormons. I wish I could pull out of this cult like some here have. If that isn't an option then dealing with this cult becomes somewhat of an artform because like you said it is YOU with the issues. They are just like they always are and were. That is one of the most infuriating feelings I think we can have. You are the crazy one yet they are the blindsided cult members.
Brokenshelfhelp, I feel for you!
Everyone's journey out of the cult is different, but there are some similarities a lot of us share.
Read some of the exit stories, accessed on the home page of this RFM website. You will know that you aren't alone!
Your question is very general. I remember, when I first discovered that Mormonism was a hoax cult, feeling like I'd had the rug pulled out from under me. Even my own trusted parents had lied to me. I had sacrificed too much for the sake of the Mormon religion. That's a long story, but Mormonism was very destructive in my life, and when they abused my children, we all resigned. All that misery, for generations--for nothing but a fraud cult! Yes, it makes you very, very angry!
when you lump everything together, it can seem like an avalanche which will suffocate and kill you--but, really, it's not. No, it's not minimizing your problems to say what Summer wrote: "Mormonism is a tiny, insignificant faith in the scheme of things." I know, it's significant to the Mormons you love, but it doesn't have to matter to YOU.
The avalanche is a bunch of flakes. Separate everything out, and deal with one problem, one person, one Mormon belief at a time.
The shunning--ugh! The Mormons deny they do this. This type of Mormon lying is called "gaslighting," which is the process by which others try to make you think you are crazy. A church-wide example of this is how the Mormons have changed their church history, and then they make you think you are crazy, when you remember being taught something different, previously. I was taught that polygamy was the Lord's way. My Mormon ancestors were polygamists. Even now, the temple still instructs that there will always be polygamy in the hereafter, because it's still "God's way". When I mentioned polygamy in Sunday school class, they treated me like I was crazy. As Mormon president GBH said, on National television, "We don't know that we teach it."
Keep your sanity, and recognize gaslighting when it happens to you. Learn to identify various forms of manipulation that Mormons use against you. Shunning is designed to manipulate people to come back to the fold. Like you said, unhappiness is the threat, if you aren't in "the only true church," Threats of financial failure are used to force people to pay tithing. Threats of being all alone in the hereafter are used to coerce people into going to the temple and dragging their loved ones there with them--and everybody pays tithing to get there.
"What loving God could support that?" You have your answer there. Always keep that question in mind, and you will find strength in following the Truth.
All the threats, manipulations, shunning, smear campaigns mind-games are the weapons cowards use. Mormons are scared to death of the truth, and they want truth-sayers like you to be bound and gagged. Still, Mormons can cause great harm. There have been stories on RFM, of broken marriages, people losing jobs, smear campaigns influencing friends and family members (this happened to me) apostate children being dis-owned and dis-inherited by Mormon parents (my Mormon in-laws did this) Mormon children not allowing apostate parents to see the grandchildren. Physically, my children were thrown down and kicked and spanked by Mormon leaders (for doing nothing more than sleeping in on Sunday), my daughter was molested by the bishop's son, my Mormon temple husband beat me almost every day, quoting the D&C 132, while he assaulted me.
"The sheer never ending pain." My neighbors across the street dis-owned their only son, because the son would not go on a mission. They never saw him again. The son graduated from a university, got married, had a son who was a basketball star, and they never saw him play, never even sent him a Christmas card. Clearly, it was my neighbors' loss. If your Mormon friends and family members choose to shun you, it's their loss.
Your knowledge can give you a firm resolve. For me, I was convinced that if I did NOT leave the cult, bad things were going to happen. My children's and my life has been full of love and joy and success and peace of mind. Even with the Mormon harassment and nastiness when we left, it was never as bad as it was when we were members. IMO, Mormons are even meaner to each other.
Sorry to ramble. One last thing, about digging out of the avalanche--you must deal with your own feelings. My problem was anger! I would struggle with that, until the cult did something else awful, and I would get angry all over again. Depression was a problem that disappeared the day I left the church. Low self esteem is another side effect of Mormonism. Denial can be a problem. A big denial is, "Even if it's made up, The Mormon church is still good. It really is about love and family."
The first part of leaving is the worst. Trust me, it gets better! The more you learn, the easier it gets. It's also a time of self-discovery. It has been an adventure, and the outcome has been very positive. Your future looks bright.
Everyone's journey out of the cult is different, but there are some similarities a lot of us share.
Read some of the exit stories, accessed on the home page of this RFM website. You will know that you aren't alone!
Your question is very general. I remember, when I first discovered that Mormonism was a hoax cult, feeling like I'd had the rug pulled out from under me. Even my own trusted parents had lied to me. I had sacrificed too much for the sake of the Mormon religion. That's a long story, but Mormonism was very destructive in my life, and when they abused my children, we all resigned. All that misery, for generations--for nothing but a fraud cult! Yes, it makes you very, very angry!
when you lump everything together, it can seem like an avalanche which will suffocate and kill you--but, really, it's not. No, it's not minimizing your problems to say what Summer wrote: "Mormonism is a tiny, insignificant faith in the scheme of things." I know, it's significant to the Mormons you love, but it doesn't have to matter to YOU.
The avalanche is a bunch of flakes. Separate everything out, and deal with one problem, one person, one Mormon belief at a time.
The shunning--ugh! The Mormons deny they do this. This type of Mormon lying is called "gaslighting," which is the process by which others try to make you think you are crazy. A church-wide example of this is how the Mormons have changed their church history, and then they make you think you are crazy, when you remember being taught something different, previously. I was taught that polygamy was the Lord's way. My Mormon ancestors were polygamists. Even now, the temple still instructs that there will always be polygamy in the hereafter, because it's still "God's way". When I mentioned polygamy in Sunday school class, they treated me like I was crazy. As Mormon president GBH said, on National television, "We don't know that we teach it."
Keep your sanity, and recognize gaslighting when it happens to you. Learn to identify various forms of manipulation that Mormons use against you. Shunning is designed to manipulate people to come back to the fold. Like you said, unhappiness is the threat, if you aren't in "the only true church," Threats of financial failure are used to force people to pay tithing. Threats of being all alone in the hereafter are used to coerce people into going to the temple and dragging their loved ones there with them--and everybody pays tithing to get there.
"What loving God could support that?" You have your answer there. Always keep that question in mind, and you will find strength in following the Truth.
All the threats, manipulations, shunning, smear campaigns mind-games are the weapons cowards use. Mormons are scared to death of the truth, and they want truth-sayers like you to be bound and gagged. Still, Mormons can cause great harm. There have been stories on RFM, of broken marriages, people losing jobs, smear campaigns influencing friends and family members (this happened to me) apostate children being dis-owned and dis-inherited by Mormon parents (my Mormon in-laws did this) Mormon children not allowing apostate parents to see the grandchildren. Physically, my children were thrown down and kicked and spanked by Mormon leaders (for doing nothing more than sleeping in on Sunday), my daughter was molested by the bishop's son, my Mormon temple husband beat me almost every day, quoting the D&C 132, while he assaulted me.
"The sheer never ending pain." My neighbors across the street dis-owned their only son, because the son would not go on a mission. They never saw him again. The son graduated from a university, got married, had a son who was a basketball star, and they never saw him play, never even sent him a Christmas card. Clearly, it was my neighbors' loss. If your Mormon friends and family members choose to shun you, it's their loss.
Your knowledge can give you a firm resolve. For me, I was convinced that if I did NOT leave the cult, bad things were going to happen. My children's and my life has been full of love and joy and success and peace of mind. Even with the Mormon harassment and nastiness when we left, it was never as bad as it was when we were members. IMO, Mormons are even meaner to each other.
Sorry to ramble. One last thing, about digging out of the avalanche--you must deal with your own feelings. My problem was anger! I would struggle with that, until the cult did something else awful, and I would get angry all over again. Depression was a problem that disappeared the day I left the church. Low self esteem is another side effect of Mormonism. Denial can be a problem. A big denial is, "Even if it's made up, The Mormon church is still good. It really is about love and family."
The first part of leaving is the worst. Trust me, it gets better! The more you learn, the easier it gets. It's also a time of self-discovery. It has been an adventure, and the outcome has been very positive. Your future looks bright.
Wow! What a thoughtful and informative post! I enjoyed reading it very much.
Welcome... you came to the right place to hang around and
vent your anger and bitterness. We all understand.
vent your anger and bitterness. We all understand.
I'm happy for you that you're able to reach out on this board. You are not alone.
It's okay to be angry.
It's okay to be hurt.
Most of us here have been exactly where you are, and we've survived and made it to the other side.
You've suffered a huge loss. The loss of faith is not an easy transition. It's like a death, and you need to grieve.
I'm the only one in my family who is out. I never told my parents that I resigned, but I'm sure my dad knows since I'm no longer listed as a family member on the records. They know I don't attend services. I get a lot of "we're praying for you" and "XYZ wouldn't have happened if you were doing the things you're supposed to be doing." Oh, and my favorite, from my mother, "are you making Nephi choices, or Lamen and Lemuel choices?" It takes practice to let that roll off my back. It didn't come easy. But, my life is GOOD. I'm married to a good man. I have a wonderful daughter. I'm fit and healthy and running a successful business that I love.
Your life can be good without the church. Better, even, than it is now. I mostly lurk too (been here since 2009) but when I need support, there's TONS of great people on this board who will give you honest guidance. We're here for you through your journey.
It's okay to be hurt.
Most of us here have been exactly where you are, and we've survived and made it to the other side.
You've suffered a huge loss. The loss of faith is not an easy transition. It's like a death, and you need to grieve.
I'm the only one in my family who is out. I never told my parents that I resigned, but I'm sure my dad knows since I'm no longer listed as a family member on the records. They know I don't attend services. I get a lot of "we're praying for you" and "XYZ wouldn't have happened if you were doing the things you're supposed to be doing." Oh, and my favorite, from my mother, "are you making Nephi choices, or Lamen and Lemuel choices?" It takes practice to let that roll off my back. It didn't come easy. But, my life is GOOD. I'm married to a good man. I have a wonderful daughter. I'm fit and healthy and running a successful business that I love.
Your life can be good without the church. Better, even, than it is now. I mostly lurk too (been here since 2009) but when I need support, there's TONS of great people on this board who will give you honest guidance. We're here for you through your journey.
"are you making Nephi choices, or Lamen and Lemuel choices?"
Right, mom, which fictional characters am I taking as a role model? She might as well be asking, "Are you making Superman choices or Lex Luthor choices?" In the context of the BoM universe, Nephi might as well be Superman since he's the best at everything, the ultimate hero figure, and is always saving the day. Nephi is a cartoon character, a caricature; he's the Walter Mitty version of Joseph Smith.
But I'd rather be making Laman and Lemuel choices in any event. They're the only rational, reasonable adults in the room. Nephi as written is a self-righteous, obnoxious asshat.
Right, mom, which fictional characters am I taking as a role model? She might as well be asking, "Are you making Superman choices or Lex Luthor choices?" In the context of the BoM universe, Nephi might as well be Superman since he's the best at everything, the ultimate hero figure, and is always saving the day. Nephi is a cartoon character, a caricature; he's the Walter Mitty version of Joseph Smith.
But I'd rather be making Laman and Lemuel choices in any event. They're the only rational, reasonable adults in the room. Nephi as written is a self-righteous, obnoxious asshat.
“... Nephi choices or. Lammas and Lemuel choices.” Hahaha. Boy, am I gonna have fun with that today.
I think you'll need to be willing to walk away from everyone you know, except for those who clearly express to you that they value their relationship with you.
If you have kids, you may have legal obligations to honor their relationship with their other parent. But if you can, move. Leave the state if you can and start your life over with new people of your choosing. Be careful who you share your new location and life with, from your old friends or family members. Demand that they respect your boundaries and make it clear that no one shows up at your door uninvited. Don't associate with anyone who does not respect you. To some degree, that is what I did. My closest family and friends stayed with me and are still in my life now. Most of the others, I haven't seen them in over thirty years now and will probably never see them again. Admittedly, the price for me was relatively low. But I would have paid any price necessary to cut-off everyone I ever knew if necessary, to escape the cult. Most importantly, I set the rules for my own life. Anyone that can't respect that has to stay out of my life.
If you have kids, you may have legal obligations to honor their relationship with their other parent. But if you can, move. Leave the state if you can and start your life over with new people of your choosing. Be careful who you share your new location and life with, from your old friends or family members. Demand that they respect your boundaries and make it clear that no one shows up at your door uninvited. Don't associate with anyone who does not respect you. To some degree, that is what I did. My closest family and friends stayed with me and are still in my life now. Most of the others, I haven't seen them in over thirty years now and will probably never see them again. Admittedly, the price for me was relatively low. But I would have paid any price necessary to cut-off everyone I ever knew if necessary, to escape the cult. Most importantly, I set the rules for my own life. Anyone that can't respect that has to stay out of my life.
As Bill Clinton said, I feel your pain. When my shelf collapsed, I made absolutely, positively sure I was right. I knew then that it wasn’t me. It was them. They just tell you it’s you. They are the ones with the problem, not you. You’re the normal person in the psych ward.
Expect to be pissed off for at least another 5 to 10 years. It took me 7 or 8 years to stop being angry at the church. It helped to realize that it wasn’t personal. It was just business. They only sold their souls for filthy lucre. It could have been worse.
On the plus side, I now take a perverse pleasure in seeing the church become a laughing stock for the world. I feel free in a way I’ve never felt before. Probably more free than if I had never been Mormon. The door to my prison cell was open. It was time to walk through that door into a new world. The further away I got, the more I appreciated the freedom to think for myself.
Anyhow, you will need new friends. Your Mormon friends aren’t really friends anyway. It’s part of the pathology. It’s not just my experience, it’s everyone’s experience. The cult destroys the love that friends normally have, like replacing real flowers with plastic ones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2020 12:55AM by babyloncansuckit.
Expect to be pissed off for at least another 5 to 10 years. It took me 7 or 8 years to stop being angry at the church. It helped to realize that it wasn’t personal. It was just business. They only sold their souls for filthy lucre. It could have been worse.
On the plus side, I now take a perverse pleasure in seeing the church become a laughing stock for the world. I feel free in a way I’ve never felt before. Probably more free than if I had never been Mormon. The door to my prison cell was open. It was time to walk through that door into a new world. The further away I got, the more I appreciated the freedom to think for myself.
Anyhow, you will need new friends. Your Mormon friends aren’t really friends anyway. It’s part of the pathology. It’s not just my experience, it’s everyone’s experience. The cult destroys the love that friends normally have, like replacing real flowers with plastic ones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2020 12:55AM by babyloncansuckit.
If your path is like mine, you will probably be pissed and have a few lingering thoughts about whether or not you are doing the right thing.
The pissed off feeling is because you were duped and wasted so much time and money on lies. But for the lingering doubts that might crop up, my suggestion is to read Fawn Brodie's book, No Man Knows My History.
If you read that book, you will know 100% that the mormon church is all based on lies. That will take care of the lingering doubts that might crop up. You will know that you are on the right path by leaving such a fraud.
Then you will just have to deal with the pissed off feelings of being duped and cheated. You may wonder how you could be so gullible? My only consolation was knowing that I was born into it, and didn't have a choice.
Depending on your family, you might have a lot of fallout there. And depending on where you live and how into it you were, you will probably have to get a whole new set of friends.
But in the end, it is all so worth it! Life is so much better out!
The pissed off feeling is because you were duped and wasted so much time and money on lies. But for the lingering doubts that might crop up, my suggestion is to read Fawn Brodie's book, No Man Knows My History.
If you read that book, you will know 100% that the mormon church is all based on lies. That will take care of the lingering doubts that might crop up. You will know that you are on the right path by leaving such a fraud.
Then you will just have to deal with the pissed off feelings of being duped and cheated. You may wonder how you could be so gullible? My only consolation was knowing that I was born into it, and didn't have a choice.
Depending on your family, you might have a lot of fallout there. And depending on where you live and how into it you were, you will probably have to get a whole new set of friends.
But in the end, it is all so worth it! Life is so much better out!
DNA Wrote:
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> You may
> wonder how you could be so gullible?
Excellent point. When I was raw and angry I couldn't conceive of someone actually joining into an abusive and manipulative cult.
It was my own ignorance and angry from being fooled from my childhood. Even though my parents duped me in their ignorance and foolishness it didn't change the hurt I feel.
What helped me with coming to Jesus on Mormon converts was Nightingale's story. Such a heartfelt desire for community and inclusion. Mormonism wants to give that to you using people it manipulates and abuses. Not a good recipe for providing these things.
I'm sure adult converts ask themselves more than us BICs how they could have been so gullible. I feel it might be more anger inducing to convert.
-------------------------------------------------------
> You may
> wonder how you could be so gullible?
Excellent point. When I was raw and angry I couldn't conceive of someone actually joining into an abusive and manipulative cult.
It was my own ignorance and angry from being fooled from my childhood. Even though my parents duped me in their ignorance and foolishness it didn't change the hurt I feel.
What helped me with coming to Jesus on Mormon converts was Nightingale's story. Such a heartfelt desire for community and inclusion. Mormonism wants to give that to you using people it manipulates and abuses. Not a good recipe for providing these things.
I'm sure adult converts ask themselves more than us BICs how they could have been so gullible. I feel it might be more anger inducing to convert.
Elder Berry is right. I converted at age 18 and ask myself how I could have been so gullible. Then I remember growing up when everybody believed in God. Mo-ism was considered like any other Christian religion back then.
At least I had a life before Mo-ism.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 07:20PM by desertwoman.
At least I had a life before Mo-ism.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 07:20PM by desertwoman.
Anger is part of healing. It is a secondary emotion to hide the hurt and betrayal. Be patient with yourself. It means you are making progress. You are actually getting in touch with your feelings and not some testimony forced drivel. You are becoming the real you. The one you were meant to be before you ran into or was programmed to be by Mormonism.
Yes there is this great crisis in your life but you do not have to solve it all at once. If you can, try to be thankful that you were able to find this out now and still have life left to live authentically. Give yourself credit for being attentive enough to see the Great Oz curtain parting just enough for you to see it is a sham. Now put down the toilet brush and stop cleaning. Acknowledgement accomplished.
Now do not let these people take advantage of you anymore. Start living as the best YOU mormonism prevented you from being before. No facts are off limits from you now. The truth has and is setting you free.
Take only the good ideas that have proven themselves to be worthy of being part of the authentic YOU. You get to explore what values you will have now. It actually can be an exciting adventure. What will you do as you get to start your life over in a sense?
Yes there is this great crisis in your life but you do not have to solve it all at once. If you can, try to be thankful that you were able to find this out now and still have life left to live authentically. Give yourself credit for being attentive enough to see the Great Oz curtain parting just enough for you to see it is a sham. Now put down the toilet brush and stop cleaning. Acknowledgement accomplished.
Now do not let these people take advantage of you anymore. Start living as the best YOU mormonism prevented you from being before. No facts are off limits from you now. The truth has and is setting you free.
Take only the good ideas that have proven themselves to be worthy of being part of the authentic YOU. You get to explore what values you will have now. It actually can be an exciting adventure. What will you do as you get to start your life over in a sense?
The above is what I call Mindful Anti Mormonism or Yes MAM!
It is important for all of us to remember the lesson of the Joseph Smith Memorial Gift Shop - just cause a polished turd sat around long enough behind a glass case doesn't mean it is a gem.
Now all of the things that go above my mantle have to pass the sniff test.
It is important for all of us to remember the lesson of the Joseph Smith Memorial Gift Shop - just cause a polished turd sat around long enough behind a glass case doesn't mean it is a gem.
Now all of the things that go above my mantle have to pass the sniff test.
MormonMartinLuther Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now all of the things that go above my mantle have
> to pass the sniff test.
Don't put any of these there.
https://deseretbook.com/p/earth-shall-teach-thee-lifework-amateur-artist-boyd-k-packer-83033?variant_id=14208-hardcover
Or do if your mantle is greater than your intellect.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teaching-seminary-preservice-readings-religion-370-471-and-475/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect?lang=eng
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now all of the things that go above my mantle have
> to pass the sniff test.
Don't put any of these there.
https://deseretbook.com/p/earth-shall-teach-thee-lifework-amateur-artist-boyd-k-packer-83033?variant_id=14208-hardcover
Or do if your mantle is greater than your intellect.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teaching-seminary-preservice-readings-religion-370-471-and-475/the-mantle-is-far-far-greater-than-the-intellect?lang=eng
I empathize with you. I went through the same thing when I finally had to admit to myself that the church just couldn't possibly be true.
Yes, I was duped. I found out many years later that this just meant I am a normal human being. You are normal if you get duped. Normal human beings trust their feelings and they trust others. It's okay to be normal. Don't be angry at yourself. I repeat: DON'T be angry at yourself. You are a normal human being. Con Artists manipulate us. Joseph Smith was a Con Artist, Brigham Young was a Con Artist.
Religions which claim to be THE TRUTH are Con games. Successful politicians are usually Con Artists. They are the abnormal ones.
There's a modern book which investigates how Con Artists treat others in modern life:
"Snakes in Suits, Revised Edition: Understanding and Surviving..." by Paul Babiak and Robert D. Hare (both psychologists). Get the most recent edition if you can. It will help a lot with your transition out of the cult and help you look for warning signs in others.
One of my big concerns was that I not get sucked into another Con job. That would be an easy road to take for many people who are trying to learn how to live without the crutch of an organization telling them how to live each day of their lives.
When we were True Believers we had rules to follow and most of our decisions were made for us. Now when we leave the organization we have to make so many decisions, and we don't have a Certainty that we can trust to guide us.
It feels very scary. At least it did to me when I no longer had certainty and the guidance of the organization.
The reality turned out that it wasn’t actually scary. It just felt very scary.
Remember: feelings are not Reality. Just as your feelings that the Church was True were not Reality, your fears you may be having are also not reality. You’re dealing with all kinds of shock right now.
You don’t need to make any decisions for a while. You are going through a process called “Disaffiliation.”
Again, you don’t need to make any decisions for a while. Keep your job. Continue your routine. I recommend finding a mental health counselor who specializes in disaffiliation if you can. You might go personally and visit the Social Work department of some local universities or colleges and explain your plight to the professors. One of them might give you the name of someone local who can empathize with you who you can talk to and who won’t try to convert you.
When I first realized the Church wasn’t true I was certain there had to be a True Church somewhere, or at least a True religion, so I went out looking. That was a mistake. There isn’t one. Don’t waste your time. The whole Idea of there being an organization or a Belief System set up by God is a false construct. There are only organizations set up by people. If you run into one that preaches “tithing” or “doing things a certain way” or thinks there are certain people who should devote their lives to their belief system you know you’ve run into another cult. Walk away from those. You will be much safer in a voluntary association group where every time you show up it is because you volunteer to go that day. No one pressured you to go.
One of the biggest risks a person who is newly leaving a cult faces is the possibility of finding another group to join that will end up being just as bad or worse than the one they just left. Don’t feel pressured to find something. Right now you just need someone safe to talk to.
Believe it or not one of the best groups I found where I could talk to people who understood my anger and my LOSS was the group “Parents of Murdered Children.” The people there really understood my anger and they let me express my anger safely.
You are going through a DEATH. You have lost something very dear to you. You’ve lost your Father in Heaven, your Mother in Heaven, and all your Siblings. It’s extremely painful. I would encourage you to just attend and listen the first few times because you’ll be able to empathize with the anger and pain of the losses you hear. I happen to have an uncle who was murdered and this very much affected my family and this group was the only group that really understood my anger at finding out the Church wasn’t true. https://www.pomc.com/index.html
If you live in a majority Mormon area, eventually you might want to relocate, but you don’t need to do anything right away.
The most important thing is to find someone safe with whom you can vocally express your anger so it doesn’t spill over into your work life or your domestic life (I know this will be tough to prevent it spilling over but most others will not be able to understand what and why you are feeling).
Don’t try to warn other believers and help them get out. I tried this and NO ONE listened. The internet exists. If they have any desire at all to find the truth they can find it. Right now you need to TAKE CARE of YOU. It is not selfish to just take care of YOU.
Put yourself FIRST right now. Step back, sleep on it, take one tiny thought and one tiny movement at a time. Don’t do anything major for a while. You are already in the midst of a Major Life Event. Don’t do anything to cause any other Major Life Events for a while. Let this one change settle and become completed first.
Yes, I was duped. I found out many years later that this just meant I am a normal human being. You are normal if you get duped. Normal human beings trust their feelings and they trust others. It's okay to be normal. Don't be angry at yourself. I repeat: DON'T be angry at yourself. You are a normal human being. Con Artists manipulate us. Joseph Smith was a Con Artist, Brigham Young was a Con Artist.
Religions which claim to be THE TRUTH are Con games. Successful politicians are usually Con Artists. They are the abnormal ones.
There's a modern book which investigates how Con Artists treat others in modern life:
"Snakes in Suits, Revised Edition: Understanding and Surviving..." by Paul Babiak and Robert D. Hare (both psychologists). Get the most recent edition if you can. It will help a lot with your transition out of the cult and help you look for warning signs in others.
One of my big concerns was that I not get sucked into another Con job. That would be an easy road to take for many people who are trying to learn how to live without the crutch of an organization telling them how to live each day of their lives.
When we were True Believers we had rules to follow and most of our decisions were made for us. Now when we leave the organization we have to make so many decisions, and we don't have a Certainty that we can trust to guide us.
It feels very scary. At least it did to me when I no longer had certainty and the guidance of the organization.
The reality turned out that it wasn’t actually scary. It just felt very scary.
Remember: feelings are not Reality. Just as your feelings that the Church was True were not Reality, your fears you may be having are also not reality. You’re dealing with all kinds of shock right now.
You don’t need to make any decisions for a while. You are going through a process called “Disaffiliation.”
Again, you don’t need to make any decisions for a while. Keep your job. Continue your routine. I recommend finding a mental health counselor who specializes in disaffiliation if you can. You might go personally and visit the Social Work department of some local universities or colleges and explain your plight to the professors. One of them might give you the name of someone local who can empathize with you who you can talk to and who won’t try to convert you.
When I first realized the Church wasn’t true I was certain there had to be a True Church somewhere, or at least a True religion, so I went out looking. That was a mistake. There isn’t one. Don’t waste your time. The whole Idea of there being an organization or a Belief System set up by God is a false construct. There are only organizations set up by people. If you run into one that preaches “tithing” or “doing things a certain way” or thinks there are certain people who should devote their lives to their belief system you know you’ve run into another cult. Walk away from those. You will be much safer in a voluntary association group where every time you show up it is because you volunteer to go that day. No one pressured you to go.
One of the biggest risks a person who is newly leaving a cult faces is the possibility of finding another group to join that will end up being just as bad or worse than the one they just left. Don’t feel pressured to find something. Right now you just need someone safe to talk to.
Believe it or not one of the best groups I found where I could talk to people who understood my anger and my LOSS was the group “Parents of Murdered Children.” The people there really understood my anger and they let me express my anger safely.
You are going through a DEATH. You have lost something very dear to you. You’ve lost your Father in Heaven, your Mother in Heaven, and all your Siblings. It’s extremely painful. I would encourage you to just attend and listen the first few times because you’ll be able to empathize with the anger and pain of the losses you hear. I happen to have an uncle who was murdered and this very much affected my family and this group was the only group that really understood my anger at finding out the Church wasn’t true. https://www.pomc.com/index.html
If you live in a majority Mormon area, eventually you might want to relocate, but you don’t need to do anything right away.
The most important thing is to find someone safe with whom you can vocally express your anger so it doesn’t spill over into your work life or your domestic life (I know this will be tough to prevent it spilling over but most others will not be able to understand what and why you are feeling).
Don’t try to warn other believers and help them get out. I tried this and NO ONE listened. The internet exists. If they have any desire at all to find the truth they can find it. Right now you need to TAKE CARE of YOU. It is not selfish to just take care of YOU.
Put yourself FIRST right now. Step back, sleep on it, take one tiny thought and one tiny movement at a time. Don’t do anything major for a while. You are already in the midst of a Major Life Event. Don’t do anything to cause any other Major Life Events for a while. Let this one change settle and become completed first.
Amen LeftTheMorg! This is great advice.
It is relieving but there is grieving at the same time.
We all need to be gentle with ourselves and rejoice in being normal again.
It is relieving but there is grieving at the same time.
We all need to be gentle with ourselves and rejoice in being normal again.
Curious how you can lurk here since 2000, and shelf didn't collapse until now?
It takes a long time looking at a car wreck where you can't look away to realize you are in it.
I found a trip to a sandy island with palm trees and cocktails is excellent therapy.
I can imagine some can lurk here a long time before shelf even begins to creek. Many might simply think "they are wrong, the devil has deceived them."
My cousin once said "I really don't know what to believe. It's all propaganda, pro or con." After many years, his balance an scales tipped away from the Morg based on the fact the anti-mormons didn't ask for time or money or labor or.... anything. They offered nothing. Other than freedom.
Some shelves are stronger than others. Mine was made of substandard wood with a termite problem. Some have shelves of iron, they will rust away, but maybe not in a person's lifetime. Some are indestructible due to inherent stupidity.
I also believe there is an ability to compartmentalize contradictory information. My mom, who I always felt was very wise and intelligent, had 2 modes when I was growing up. Science mom and church mom. It was confusing to me as a child when I would get contradictory answers.... until I realized, that s church mindset had a completely different analytical process and result, than non church mindset.
I suspect that this is fairly widespread within the current membership.
My cousin once said "I really don't know what to believe. It's all propaganda, pro or con." After many years, his balance an scales tipped away from the Morg based on the fact the anti-mormons didn't ask for time or money or labor or.... anything. They offered nothing. Other than freedom.
Some shelves are stronger than others. Mine was made of substandard wood with a termite problem. Some have shelves of iron, they will rust away, but maybe not in a person's lifetime. Some are indestructible due to inherent stupidity.
I also believe there is an ability to compartmentalize contradictory information. My mom, who I always felt was very wise and intelligent, had 2 modes when I was growing up. Science mom and church mom. It was confusing to me as a child when I would get contradictory answers.... until I realized, that s church mindset had a completely different analytical process and result, than non church mindset.
I suspect that this is fairly widespread within the current membership.
You were lied to and manipulated by a cult; being angry and in pain are perfectly normal reactions to realizing that. Never let anyone tell you you're "acting like a victim" or "stop being angry and just get over it." If anyone gives you crap for not acting like a perfect, happy TBM, raise your middle finger and tell them they can go fuck themselves.
I resigned when I was 20, but I had also talked to Navy recruiters and had a place to run to. You don't have to go that far to get away from the TBM chodes in your life, but cutting them out of your life would help.
As for TBM family, you basically have to deal with them the same way you would with narcissistic family members: "Grey Rock" if you have to be around them, limited to zero contact if you can do so.
As for anger and pain, you can't ignore them away so don't bother trying. Get a gym membership, headbang to a metal band you like, learn a martial art, just find a way to work with the pain and anger.
I resigned when I was 20, but I had also talked to Navy recruiters and had a place to run to. You don't have to go that far to get away from the TBM chodes in your life, but cutting them out of your life would help.
As for TBM family, you basically have to deal with them the same way you would with narcissistic family members: "Grey Rock" if you have to be around them, limited to zero contact if you can do so.
As for anger and pain, you can't ignore them away so don't bother trying. Get a gym membership, headbang to a metal band you like, learn a martial art, just find a way to work with the pain and anger.
ookami Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just find a way to work with the pain and
> anger.
Posting here is a good way.
-------------------------------------------------------
> just find a way to work with the pain and
> anger.
Posting here is a good way.
True.
Well first I enjoyed my Sundays off. Then, even more, I enjoyed my raise of an extra 10% per month. I hated mormons, when I was a mormon (I was a BIC too), but just hated the holier than thou mormons I grew up with and had to see in church every week. Not being around mormons was plus. Life is so much funner, happier. I have many hobbies that I love: powerlifting, backpacking/hiking, gardening, carpentry, etc.
I never felt comfortable with Mormons, either. I grew up with them; they were my peers; but my interests were different and I found them narrow and complaisant. I stuck with the church because I liked the vision, but when we left the social price was not very high. We had lots of family trouble to process, but with the exception of a handful of friends it was otherwise good riddance.
Powerlifting is intriguing. I thought you were an older man: is that incorrect? Do you compete?
Powerlifting is intriguing. I thought you were an older man: is that incorrect? Do you compete?
Yep I can relate. I am 54 years of age, but I enjoy powerlifting. Powerlifting comprises three main lifts (i.e. bench, squat, and deadlift). My goal is celebrate 55 this year with 500, 500, 500 lifts respectively and I am very close. My bench is at 450 right now. I already made the other two lifts at 500. I imagine I will start slowing down in the next 5 years but enjoying it while I can.
I only compete locally, but may enter the "Masters" level strongman competitions in my region next years (Masters = older guys).
Very cool, Ted.
I'm an ageing athlete (still compete a bit) and hang out with a small group of gym rats. I know enough about your sport to realize that 500 is a lot harder to press than to squat or deadlift.
Good luck at the masters competitions--and keep away from the juice!
I'm an ageing athlete (still compete a bit) and hang out with a small group of gym rats. I know enough about your sport to realize that 500 is a lot harder to press than to squat or deadlift.
Good luck at the masters competitions--and keep away from the juice!
Look at Ted Talk! Good for you. I'm impressed.
Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch ! Very impressive, though, Ted.
I began lurking here around 2005, but my testimony was strong. I found out about the DNA problem, but I rationalized instead of doing honest research to discover how DNA actually works. From 2005 to 2014, I learned a lot of disturbing information. But I did the Mormon cartwheels to keep believing. In 2014 I did a little research and got a couple of cracks in my shelf, but still couldn't believe that Mormonism wasn't true. By March 2015, my internet research and book reading finally convinced me that Mormonism is total crock. It hurt so badly! I didn't start to communicate here until 2016 or 2017. But I went to YouTube ex-Mormon videos and communicated in the comments. It was interesting to listen to TBMs rationalize their religion to ex-Mo's, since until recently it had been me!
Thanks for sharing. My beliefs unraveled in 2003. It took another 3 years to completely disassociate. I can easily imagine 20 years to a lifetime depending on how discrete one thinks they want to, should be, would need to be.
If you can't afford the binge, go to Wendover and drink for free while playing Craps. I'll be there Tuesday. Karl Kani shirt, telling bad jokes.
I think the shunning is the hardest and most gut-wrenching thing especially by family that made you feel like garbage even in the same household growing up. I know any face to face interaction will leave me open to gaslighting now and i really don't want to deal with that right now. I ran into an old friend at the store the other day that was getting shunned and he walked straight to the person and looked them dead in the eyes and said "i still (cussing)f-ing exist!!!". I realized that this is what i need to do instead of avoiding them. I don't think it was an accident that i ran into him. I was feeling pretty low as i am in the banktrupcy process right now and he is the first ex-mo that i actually went to church with in a singles ward about 5 years ago. He said something really funny though. He said they all have bird brains chasing crumbs around haha like wedding rings and such. Have no goals to go travel or get outside the group mentallity. They are a bunch if bird brain followers he said.
And also counseling has helped me a lot to find some sanity. Non-bias and non-religious counselor that do not try to push their beliefs on you at all. Counselors have to be stable adults and get vetted every week to make sure they are solid. You can not be or should not be a counselor if you are not a stable adult. which you will not find in that operation. No adult in a cult is anywhere close to normal trust me i grew up in the operation. You have to find help outside of it and consistently. I would never have made it this far without counseling. I knew the family gaslighting would reach insane levels once i left so a counselor was put in place to keep me from battling the real crazies while i healed my mind.
I highly recommend reading the book "combatting cult mind control" by steven hassan as well. He is the top exit-cult counselor and was a former cult leader himself and knows exactly how they operate. Goes over the BITE model to show you how a cult controls people. Anyways, reading books with true information helped me a lot. Anyways hoped this helped.
And of course sir david the bard youtube videos. He has done a TON of therapy videos as he has deprogrammed over the years and he is pretty funny. Alright i am going to bed i think i have talked enough.