via a not-hard-hitting Desperate News article

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/2/14/21133740/mormon-church-finances-billions-presiding-bishopric-ensign-peak-tithing-donations-byu-real-estate

Long, but a few points (many of which we here have surmised).

- the $1 billion in humanitarian aid isn't quite 1 billon and includes fast offerings

“We’re talking close to $1 billion in that welfare/humanitarian area on an annual basis. Yes, we are using our resources to bless the poor and the needy as well as all of the other responsibilities we have as a church.”

"The figure includes all humanitarian and welfare expenditures, including fast offering aid"

- they have more resources than EPAs $100 billion

“In addition to the reserves that are invested by Ensign Peak, we have reserves invested in real property and commercial real estate, residential real estate and in agriculture,” Bishop Waddell said.

That includes many large ranches and farms, which produce food to feed the hungry as well as provide long-term investment. The church recently bought a 15,000-acre, Dallas-area corn and sorghum farm with 10,000 head of cattle through one of its tax-paying agriculture companies, which include AgReserves Inc. and Farmland Reserve Inc. The property was listed for nearly $50 million, the Dallas Morning News reported on Thursday.

“They are one of the largest cattle ranch operators in the U.S.,” Icon Global founder Bernard Uechtritz told the newspaper.

The church’s ranch holdings are public.

For example, the church owns 670,000 acres of cattle ranches, farms and timberland in Florida. It started Deseret Ranches of Florida in 1950. It shared information about the ranch in a 1975 issue of the Ensign, one of the faith’s magazines, and on its Church Newsroom website in 2016. The Deseret News wrote about the ranches in 2013 and also covered the purchase of the timberland. It is public information that the church plans to develop some of the ranch property over the next 60 years.

- they are buying farmland as an investment

“The church has an attitude of being very conservative, very prudent,” Bishop Caussé said. “We really look in the long term. It’s not about having your reserves fluctuate all the time but looking into long-term care of those funds so they can be available to the church for accomplishing its mission. For example we have agricultural land that we look at with a 20- to 30-year perspective. It’s about how can we develop in a way that will be safe for the environment, that will be developing the land and the community, providing a great increase for the church or an interest of the church, but also preserving it for generations.

- they are still disingenuous about expenditures

"Among the other missions of the church is missionary work, which includes funding 399 missions and the travel and health care expenses of 67,695 missionaries."

Most of which comes from the missionaries/families and other members.

"Universities are only a portion of the church’s education costs. It pays for a Seminary and Institutes program that provides religious education to more than 800,000 teens and college students around the world. The effort includes 50,000 teachers, Bishop Caussé said."

How many seminary teachers outside of Utah get paid?

Someone asked how much it costs to run BYU.
Answer: "Bishop Caussé said the church’s five universities and colleges, which educate 90,000 students, operate at a cost of $1.5 billions in a year paid for by tuition and tithing."

- they really do want you to pay tithing instead of food

“It’s anything but,” he said. “They pay their tithing because it’s a commandment, and they are encouraged to, if they only have enough money to pay tithing or eat, ‘Pay your tithing and we’ll help with food,’ because the blessings that are associated with the payment of tithing will then be theirs, and they won’t go hungry, because we have the ability to assist them now.”

They have the ability, but will they actually do it?

-finally

"There have been no allegations of leaders enriching themselves, something noted in multiple reports on church finances. The church’s general authorities leave their professional careers to serve as church leaders full time often at significant financial sacrifice."

How do we know? TSCC does not provide any information on compensation for leaders.

"It is public information that the church plans to develop some of the ranch property over the next 60 years."

So now even the DN concedes the church is planning out to 2080 under the assumption that Jesus stays home. That's not news here, but I bet few if any mormons were aware of that. Wait, didn't Rusty say that "time is running out," implying that the 2nd Coming is juuuust around the corner?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/time-is-running-out-do-the-necessary-spiritual-work-president-nelson-says?lang=eng

Prophets: scaring mormons since 1830.

Yeah, that's it-

- They're very open

- Everything done to serve the members

- They fund & maintain a large, expensive organization, (no bloated salaries or incomes for leaders)


But: They've deteriorated into a cabal of leaders who don't acknowledge serious mistakes, either their own or subordinates, hence no meaningful feedback loop > No Dissent is tolerated, members lives are ruined when 'religion' is used as a Hammer / Wedge, even / especially between family members

Lip Service to the basics pertaining to your claimed central, core values. No ethics, no over-reaching adherence to claimed principles.

bottom line: they Talk the Talk, but they don't Walk the Walk.

MoronicPriesthood Central Corp will never own a ranch or farm in North Dakota. The State has a law that owners have to be an actual North Dakota resident. Family Corporation can be done but NO Monsanto or Bandini or the like. Lets the Real Estate Corporation masquerading as a religion out completely.

If the Cult is left a ranch or farm the State forces the sale to private individuals - who have to be a legal resident.

Maybe that is why MoronicPriesthood, Inc doesn't push too hard for more members in the State. I understand it has one of the lowest percentages of Mormons in the US. Maybe this is one reason? The Corp can't get into the controlling interest of the land?

> The State has a law
> that owners have to be an actual North Dakota
> resident.

Do you have a source for that? It strikes me as an unconstitutional interruption of interstate commerce.

https://investigatemidwest.org/2017/06/22/regulation-on-foreign-ownership-of-agricultural-land-a-state-by-state-breakdown/

People who aren’t citizens of the U.S. or Canada or permanent residents of the U.S. can’t acquire (directly or indirectly) interest in agricultural land unless:
A treaty guarantees the right

The person resides in North Dakota for at least 10 months out of every year

The person actively participates in the operation of the ag land

The agriculture land holding doesn’t exceed 640 acres and the ag land includes a dairy operation

The above exceptions have reporting requirements: they must notify the agriculture commissioner within 30 days of acquisition and annually provide the commissioner with a list of addresses and dates where they resided in the previous year

People who no longer meet the above exceptions have 24 months to dispose of their land

Partnerships, limited partnerships, limited liability companies, trustee or other business entities can’t acquire or hold the title of land unless the ultimate beneficiary is a U.S. citizen or permanent resident

This and the other above provisions don’t apply to land acquired by devise, descent or in collection of a debt; if land is acquired in one of those ways, they have 3 years to get rid of it

Also, it doesn’t apply to foreign corporations who acquire ag l
and for use as an industrial site; there are special provisions here

Farming and ranching by limited liability companies and corporations is prohibited; there are exceptions, and there are annual reporting requirements to the secretary of state for companies who fall under those exceptions. Corporations can amend their articles of incorporation to become a farming or ranching corporation, but they must comply with the provisions of the chapter.

Thank you.

That does not say that American citizens or corporations must be residents of North Dakota to purchase and own land in that state. The restrictions only apply to foreigners.

It's painfully obvious that the church doesn't support its own members. It's one thing to acknowledge that they don't intend to give away their money to assist the poor. But dammit, they do next to nothing for their believing members who sacrifice themselves for such a greedy corporation.

I was always selling shit to support myself to enjoy scouting. Did you ever get told off by old ladies because your 50 cent cupcake was too much? How about selling lightbulbs in dangerous neighborhoods or begging members to buy homemade pizzas?

I just can't remember the church stepping up to support me. One year two scouts were unable to raise their portion of funds for scout camp so it was decided that nobody could go. Yet the following year, we were required to fundraise all over again. What the hell happened to the money? It went to SLC.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yet the following year, we were required to fundraise all
> over again. What the hell happened to the money?
> It went to SLC.

this is the way ChurchCo functions: By intimidation / coercion to bamboozle the members / donors / 'volunteers' into thinking that their participation & often sacrifice of other priorities - family members is MANDATORY, no matter the details...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 12:14AM by GNPE.

"Pay your tithing and we’ll help with food."

Right. It's as simple as that.

or with housing, medical, transportation, etc.

Again, ChurchCo is better at PR than they are at Doing what the publicize...

Yes.

In other words, it's possible to buy your own groceries from the supermarket, or you can pay that money to the church as tithing and, if you're lucky, get food from the church. You're buying the groceries either way. Way back when we got church food, it tended to be of lower quality than what we would have purchased by from the market. Can't say if it's improved any currently.

Regardless of how much effort & $ ChurchCo puts into PR / appearances, it seldom gets the desired effects, maybe the Best they did was 'I'm A Mormon' on a few city busses...

not impressive in any respect, it's so transparent / superficial & I'm glad it never seems to stick.

All those years I was a Mormon, up until almost 10 years ago, I was taught that fast offerings were kept in the ward, to be spent on ward expenses, within the ward boundaries.

It would be interesting to investigate those Mormon-owned cattle ranches and farms "which produce food to feed the hungry". They mean "feed the hungry that pay money for the goods". Exactly how many Mormon steaks and how many cans of Mormon peaches have been donated to "the hungry" who can't pay for food?

We all know what a great job the cult does in paying for medical care for the missionaries! My own nephew had to tough out 4 months of agonizing tooth aches from abscessed teeth--4 months of no sleep due to the pain, and not being able to chew. He was in a city in the US, full of dentists, but the cult didn't want to pay for it. He lost 50 pounds. The cult made him wait until he got home to go to the dentist. They hauled him off the plane and into a dentist chair on a Saturday. With the novocaine, he began to cry, because it was the first time in all those months that he was out of pain. Two root canals, and it was over, and his parents paid the bill. The next day he was speaking in Sacrament meeting on an assigned topic, and was allowed to say only a few words about his mission. His suit hung on his skinny shoulders, and his shirt collar bagged around his pencil neck, and he could barely smile when he said, "It was the best two years of my life." He had, on two nights, in his missionary apartment in the heart of a dangerous slum, laid flat on the floor, with his companions during two shoot-outs, in which people were killed. No, the cult didn't move them out of there. It was a church-owned apartment building.

Senior missionaries pay for everything, out of thier own pockets, too. When my elderly uncle and aunt went on a couples mission, about 4 years ago, the cult arranged for them to rent an apartment a church-owned apartment building. They were in a very hot place (I won't mention where, for fear losing my anonymity), and none of the Mormon apartments had air conditioning--unheard of in that area of the civilized world! My aunt kept getting sick from the heat, so they found a nicer apartment, with air conditioning, and it was for much less rent. But, the cult would not allow them to move. They had to stay where they were. The church buildings where they worked were air conditioned, and my SIL spent most of the evenings sitting in the ocean, to keep cool, and their apartment was too hot for sleeping or for cooking. My aunt and uncle were retired teachers, were still certified, and they taught at a church-owned school, for free. The students paid tuition, but my aunt and uncle were not paid. Free labor, and paying tennants to keep their apartments full. That adds up to profit for the cult.

Yeah, we all know that the parents pay for their kids' missions, and, I suspect, the cult even makes some profit from its missionary program. It's all volunteer, even cleaning the mission home. The cult owns the mission hoome and its real estate, tax-free, and whenever possible, they make the missionaries live in Mormon-owned tenements.

Just, wow. Mormons think they are good at manipulating the media reports--and they never have to prove anything! Everyone takes them at their word...and Mormonism continues to hide the truth.

My disgust knows no bounds.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 02:36AM by forestpal.

All church donations get deposited to the church’s general fund. An accounting of the fast offerings deposits and withdrawals are kept at the ward level. The checks are written on the church’s bank account but the the money is tracked locally. So nothing deposited as a fast offering gets spent by Salt Lake. It just avoids having to have a separate bank account and the church auditors can track what’s going on at the ward level.

I was an auditor for our stake. I can verify Salt Lake does not take money out of non tithing funds to use on something else.

Yes, that's what I was taught.

Rubicon, did you have proof that the fast offering funds were really being spent that way? Did you, as a Stake Auditor, know enough about the financials to be certain of how the money was being spent?

I'm interested in your comments, because you were pretty high-up in being trusted with the finances! You should know, right?

How much money did the stake take in, with people's fast offerings?

What a horrifying mission.

As with so many.

Our own (former) poster Blair Watson was a missionary in South America. He contracted meningitis, the MP knew and denied him medical care for weeks. Blair wrote that he suffered much at the time as well as long after returning home with lingering health problems up into his '30s.

It's abuse, negligence, neglect, everything wrong you can think of. It should be prosecutable. I think, iirc, that Blair's mom was a nurse. She could have been of great assistance, at least in giving advice, if not getting him home quickly, but his parents were not informed.

That was at the time too when missionaries could only call home once a year and pre-Net too, so no email. They were truly at the mercy of their MPs.

I'm still gobsmacked too at the Liberia thread. Who would think that the Mormon Church sends teenagers to Liberia on missions? Can you imagine getting your mission call and having to look thrilled to know your destination is one bound to be beyond challenging, if not life-threatening?

Negligence. At a minimum.

Let me clarify fast offerings. The money for fast offerings are raised at the ward level. They really have nothing to do with the church general fund. It’s not the church donating those funds. It’s the local members. No tithing money goes to fast offerings. The tithing money is donated to the church. Fast offerings are donated to those in need within the ward boundaries and the bishop manages those funds. Salt Lake has nothing to do with them other than auditing them to makes sure the money did go where it was supposed to.

From the DN article:

"Fast offering funds first stay within a ward or a branch to help people in the congregation. Excess funds are shared around the church."

"Church leaders use tithing funds and fast offerings from established areas of the church to help finance less-established areas, the bishops said."

Then there is this statement at the bottom of the donation slip:
"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

https://www.ldsliving.com/LDS-Church-adopts-new-tithing-slips/s/69822

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54371289&itype=cmsid

Threefold mission of the church:
- Build a real estate empire
- Avoid paying taxes
- Keep members brainwashed

Jesus at the second coming: Okay, you guys need to sell all this sh*t and give to the poor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 08:12PM by babyloncansuckit.

Then there is this statement at the bottom of the donation slip:
"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

...I guess that could mean anything that "uplift" the Brethren.

...1-800-GIRLFRIEND.