A mormon friend and coworker was surprised to know that I had been a member of the church.

"Oh," I said, "Dont't I have the glow?" He was embarrassed and apologized. He said that he didn't think I did anything bad, but I never talked about it. For years he has always worked little references about his church into conversation. He said he does that to send little signals to others who he meets to find out of they are mormon, too.

Subtle. I was aware of the technique but it was strange to hear him explain it.

I actually like working with my friend. He is a good guy and we actually have a lot in common. I value our friendship and I am not out to change his views.

We went on to talk about why I did not get too excited about the church. I said I had a problem with the church history and doctrine about race, treatment of women, and sexuality. We actually agree on some major points.

He is willing to trust the leadership of the church. Sure they make mistakes, but they are just men. Men are not perfect.

I get that. I trust the leadership of other men and women in many aspects of life.

My fundamental problem is this-

How can you trust the leadership and judgement of a group of people who have a lie as their foundational claim to authority? Why would I follow someone based on their authority and abandon my own judgement? Why would I follow a group that accepts dogma so clearly set against basic human dignity and morality?

In my experience, the mormon church teaches its members to lie. Its leaders lie. Its advertising lies. Its constantly revised history lies.

The mormon church lies and does not fulfill the basic oath sworn in US courts, "To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

It changes facts to suit it. It leaves out critical details and it spins its tales to mislead.

I was misled in this way when I joined. Many times I accepted the lie and lived my life in stressful ignorance painted over with a fake mormon glow.

I am glad I lost the glow.

"Glow little glow-worm, glow and glimmer"

TBMs are but little glimmering glow-worms who's glowy-ness makes them more vulnerable to those who would prey upon them for their glimmer.

Yes, church leaders are “just men,” and they “aren’t perfect.” I’m not aware of any critic of the church that expects perfection. The problem is that the members believe that the top 15 are literally prophets, seers, and revelators, and that they receive direct revelation from God. Someone who has a direct line from deity should be right far more often than the average person. That certainly isn’t the case.

It was once taught that the leaders were called of god and that they were not fallible. The church made no apologies because the will of god was always done.

I'm not sure when all of this "they're just men, speaking of men" apologetic justifications came into play (2000 onward, internet?).

I guess this thinking resulted from too many contradictions of former teachings of the profits; all too easy thanks to the internet.

I learned in seminary that the prophet would never lead me astray.

I also learned that even if the prophet did tell me to do something wrong that I would be blessed for following him.

Of course, maybe that is no longer the doctrine of the mormons.

To paraphrase Gordon B. Hinkley commenting on a different issue, I don't know if we teach that...

"How can you trust the leadership and judgement of a group of people who have a lie as their foundational claim to authority? Why would I follow someone based on their authority and abandon my own judgement? Why would I follow a group that accepts dogma so clearly set against basic human dignity and morality?

In my experience, the mormon church teaches its members to lie. Its leaders lie. Its advertising lies. Its constantly revised history lies.

The mormon church lies and does not fulfill the basic oath sworn in US courts, "To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

It changes facts to suit it. It leaves out critical details and it spins its tales to mislead."

That's a masterful summary, Lowpriest :-)

What's more to say?

Always heard about the glow as a young Mormon. Lived in an all Mormon community so there was no need to even have electricity.

Heard non-stop that nonMormons always commented and noticed something special about us that they couldn't put their finger on. Geez.



I read an exit story, I believe here, a long while ago of an exmo whose journey out, first flicker of doubt, aka HUH???, came when he went somewhere to volunteer and it was going to be a lot of Mormons with a lot of non-Mormons and he figured he would be able to tell who was who by their glow.

You can guess what happened. But it actually shook him enough to stop and think. The first step out seems small at the time. Almost unnoticeable.

I loved that story. Sort of like mine. When I got into the mission field, the natives weren't glowing but I could tell we weren't either.

Do you need a glow plug ?

Lowpriest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How can you trust the leadership and judgement of
> a group of people who have a lie as their
> foundational claim to authority? Why would I
> follow someone based on their authority and
> abandon my own judgement? Why would I follow a
> group that accepts dogma so clearly set against
> basic human dignity and morality?

You won’t unless you’re at an impressionable age (such as 18), the people you love the most (such as family and friends) are telling you it’s all true, and you’re actively trying to convince yourself it’s all real, “I know this church is true.”

For many Mormons, the thinking stops here. From Kohlberg’s Stages of Moral Development this about a Level 4–I’m a good person who follows the rules. IMO, most EXMOs are at a stage 5–I’ll use my own reasoning and moral standards to assess whether something is good, moral, or true.

Thanks for sharing this Lowpriest.

But I did join the mor mormons when I was 16. Makes me wonder...

I was 18. Yeah, if only I knew ... here some comfort—if we knew and felt NOW the way we did back then, we probably would do same things.

So, because we now know and understand we we say, “I was young, innocent, naive, and needed something in my life that Mormonism filled. I’m glad I figured it out.”

"Why would I follow a group that accepts dogma so clearly set against basic human dignity and morality?"

Forget glowing. Why would I follow a group that promotes dogma so clearly against basic human nature yet offers so little in place of it?

If our nature is to glow I don't know if I would go with the glow but we all at times get to pick and choose when, where, and how we can fight our own natures. I don't know why it is I'm doing something so clearly human when I know I should have the ability to control it. But to accept dogma clearly against my being human for the reasons Mormonism gives me is clearly distasteful and often abusive in my opinion.

Why would I love my child less because of some organization? Why would I judge another human being based not upon my experiences with them but a dogma so clearly against basic human nature?

Getting people to go against their own nature gives the church leverage when we inevitably fail.

But you asked a different question.

Why would we choose that?

I imagine that I was somehow convinced that there was something wrong with me. I'm not sure how that idea started.

It was not until I stopped disliking myself that I started to reject the claims of the church. Mormon doctrine teaches that we are broken, flawed and irredeemable without the atonement over which they claim to control access.

I live near Temple Square. I see lots of Mormons when I walk around downtown. Lots of homeless too. Interesting combination. And lots of software developers.

The Mormons are easy to spot. It's not just the clothing, though that is part of it. There is also a way of walking, general body language, facial expression.

I wouldn't describe it as a glow. It is hardly universal among Mormons, but it is common enough that it is distinctive and a pretty good rule of thumb. It doesn't exactly creep me out, but I tend toward mild avoidance behavior when I see them.

Come to think of it, I do the same with the pan handlers and the software types, the scooter-on-sidewalk riders and the skateboarders. :)

Comments to me about my “glow” and changes after I left TSCC was confirmation to me that I had made the correct choice to leave.

I had family members comment that I no longer had my previous glow.

When I first left, I started playing organ for other churches. I had several members there comment that I had a special glow about me.

I discovered their glow sensors were nothing more than confirmation bias of the individual, although I am much happier out of the church and living my fabulous life.

You can pick them out as you know their habits and, if someone moves to Utah, they will learn those things they do like the clothes they wear, etc.

My boyfriend says I still look mormon. My son definitely does not. My "husband" screams mormon. My daughter does, too, but she is one. She dresses a lot like the mormons now. Too many layers for one thing. She does dress nice, but more mormony than she did in her teens, etc. If I'm with my boyfriend, I know I don't look mormony. He does NOT look mormon.

As for the leadership. As others have said, we were told they had a direct link to God. I was taught to follow my leaders. Then when mormons found out my situation, including my husband's lesbian sister (she denies it now) told me she would never have listened to the leaders about this situation (well, I guess she did, she's been married a long time). She is OVER THE TOP mormon. It has to be true for her as she has spent her whole life in an unhappy marriage and not even happy as a mom.

BUT when I found out my boyfriend/future husband was gay, I thought if I could just talk to the bishop, he would have answers. Nope. The SP. Nope. So a friend told me to write to Boyd after he had read "To The One." My friend was a bishop himself. I thought now for sure I would find out. All he had to do was ASK GOD. WRONG!

To follow men who don't even know us, care about us, give a shit about us is insane. I did it. Look how well it worked out. My dad knew better than they did. I should have gone to him, with his drinking, chewing, coffee ways, cussing, not attending church, etc. He knew the answers. But they told me NOT to tell ANYONE, especially my parents.

I'm just an old 62-year-old lady so maybe I've lost the glow now. I make sure the mormons see me being a heathen.

"The Glow".

In Mormon women, it's that glassy-eyed stare, when they baby-talk to you, in their little-girl voices. It is very distinctive, in that they can look at you, without really making eye contact with you. Behind their vacant eyes, it seems like nobody's home.

What they say seems scripted, somehow, yet they speak as though they are saying something very profound and sacred.

Their "glowing" smiles are unique, and we refer to it as the upside-down smile, like in the song. It seems affected, because it is not a natural smile, at all. I can't do it, but my daughter can immitate it, perfectly. It's a fake smile, but the corners of the mouth turn downward, the nose crinkles slightly (like it's smelling a bad odor) and the eyes are crinkled up by the nose, externally, but not relaxed and widened and lit-up internally, as in a real smile.

I see no difference in Mormon children; however, I can usually spot children who are being abused.

As for the men--they affect the GA's in all their mannerisms, and there is absolutely nothing that "glows" there. It isn't cool for Mormon men to smile, I guess, and when they do, it is often at the expense of others--backhanded ridicule or sarcasm.

I suppose if you washed a pig and put a white shirt and dark tie on him that he would "glow".

Nah, I think the "glow" is just another thing Mormons made up to prmote themselves.

>> "I am glad I lost the glow."

So now you have "afterglow" right?

Now you really have it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLx6udRjqEzSq59muOHiCsygBhwf4cplgi

I used to glow. Now I perspire. One day I'll sweat.

Wasn't afterglow one of those mormon boy bands from the 80s?

"Sure they make mistakes, but they are just men. Men are not perfect."

Always ask, can you give me some examples?

If you look at old Heaven’s Gate cult videos, the followers have the same glow. Mormons have a glow because they share the same fantasy. It’s so nice to be special.

The glow of complete devotion sans critically scrutiny of their devotion.

I told a friend yesterday that truth matters to me. The real truth. Not fabricated fantasy forced onto children. I actually have something most men do not have and that is real honor. They with held a lot of truth on purpose and it caused a lot of wreckage and some actually ended their own lives. It is very very serious what they did to my friends and i.

And the real truth is there is no TP at any store right now. That is real time live action truth. No fantasy about it.