My sister showed me an invitation she had received to view GC online this weekend. "You might be interested if you're not doing anything else" she said, laughing.

I cannot repeat my response. But be assured, it was in the negative.


The invitation reads in part:

"... celebrat[ing] the Bicentennial Year of the Prophet Joseph Smith's First Vision, which ushered in the Restoration, the defining event of our faith! Church Leadership will offer messages of faith and hope that will inspire and uplift us. It is also a wonderful educational opportunity to learn about the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ in our dispensation.

All of the sessions are unique in their messages, keynote speakers and music. This extraordinary historic event will leave us with messages of faith and hope!"

-----

Not to be rude, but in what universe would a nevermo who has never expressed any interest in the Mormon Church want to spend an entire weekend watching GC?

Even in the time of a global pandemic when other choices are severely curtailed.

I would clean the basement, mow the lawn, wash the walls, disinfect the laundry room or turf out all the closets and have more fun and do myself more good than sitting watching the same old same old that this lady defines as inspiring and uplifting. The noise a woodpecker is making outside my window, driving me insane, is more welcome and more inspiring than any memory I have of the GCs I endured as a Very. Confused. Convert.

I actually feel sorry for anyone who thinks GC is inspiring. There is SO MUCH more to life. Especially when it's not even live. Or I mean, live but via video. Horrifically boring to the power of 10.

OK, I'll shut up about it now.

Trying not to be rude. :)

woodpecker noises can be very soothing OPie ~

Nightingale:

I submit this is a numbers game; out of say, 1,000 people, X will be in a state of emotional or other flux / distress.

of 'x', Y will be searching perhaps open to change.


those the people that the lady was 'thinking about' most likely as a result of ChurchCo indoctrination....

@Nightingale:
I am an atheist and a nevermo.

By GC I think you mean General Conference?
If it is going to be a standard priest at the podium talk, I am not interested, such as Jesus said this and Jesus said that. That kind of stuff does not mean much to me. The person who says “it” is not important at all. What is important is what is said, what is the reason for saying it, can you provide a rational reason, can you provide evidence, can we sit down at the table of “society” and discuss it like adults and come to a decision.
No. Instead, the Bible is just a set of injunctions. No justification is given for the rules. Some of the commands are useless such as don’t steel, don’t murder.
It does not offer in technical, scientific, engineering information about this universe. That makes sense to me since I am an atheist.
Don’t eat pigs, shellfish and a few other animals. What a bunch of silly sounding rules. How about explaining why I should not? What is the problem? It just saying it is not clean to you. What do you mean by clean Mr Doctor or Mr Universe? Is it supposed to be a secret?
Then Jesus comes along and suddenly, all those rules go out the window.

These religions claim to come from some super hyper intelligent being but there is nothing intellectual in it. It can’t even write his own book, make his own VHS or DVD or appear live on TV or make some extremely beautiful art, beautiful music.

Don’t get me wrong. I am interested in learning about religion and the people.
However, I want the full facts. There were multiple claims by Joseph Smith: one of them is with 1 Jesus, then there is one with Jesus and his god, then something about 3 guys.
I want to see the original papers, original photos.

“OK, I'll shut up about it now.”

==You don’t have to. I am open minded and want your version, your point of view.

“Trying not to be rude. :)”

==In my experience, that is not possible. Theists will get offended.

~~~~iceman9090



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2020 11:59PM by iceman9090.

If it is going to be a standard priest at the podium talk

Oh Iceman9090 it is so much worse. It is hard to even describe. A lot of bragging and boasting. A lot of going on about how special they are. This one will be a lot of "God is testing us" crap too.

It is hard to describe. You could watch it online and find out?
As you are an atheist I take it that you are simply interested intellectually in understanding other religions. Kudos to you for that and for coming here. I have yet to ever have a conversation with a mormon that follows normal rules of debate and mutual understanding - they are so brainwashed and won’t listen either.

The problem with the mormon organisation might be all of the usual stuff that you could take issue with in religion generally. But on top of that, the whole thing is based on provable lies in relatively recent times. Add to that another layer in that its leaders deliberately covering up those lies, and telling the members that to question things is a sin...Those who question too much, are in fact taken to mormon “courts of love” and either disfellowshipped or excommunicated. There is no room for questioning your mormon leaders, no conversation, and no room for doubting. One thing I heard over and over in both general and stake conferences was “obey, obey, obey...”

So what is the outcome of all that? On the face of it, some nice things such as, be kind and look after your family, serve others, love Jesus, pray to god. But really, nothing good that is unique or couldn’t be found elsewhere or determined on your own through basic moral reasoning.

However, if you know all of the above it becomes apparent that it is all very Stepford Wives, Truman Show stuff. It has a dark underside. What I remember from general conference is a lot of story telling, emotional acting, repetition and a lot of commandments. I remember hearing a lot about paying tithing, going to the temple, not questioning your leaders. There will usually be a talk from the member of the quorum of the twelve where he goes on about how much he loves Jesus and how much Jesus loves him and how he loves us all; he will cry - but listen to the subtext because what will then follow is some commandment to obey your leaders or something similar. It’s manipulative. It’s also mostly just rehashed stuff. But mormons believe these men are literally speaking for god in real time. In my experience if you listen to what they’re really saying, it’s not nice stuff.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2020 04:31PM by Third of Five.

I never heard much talk about Jesus in my three years in. As a supposedly Christian religion, that is a bit startling. Smith and Briggy were front and centre and the Mormon prophets of "these latter days".

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By GC I think you mean General Conference?

Correct.

As an aside, I avoided using GC for a long time to refer Mormon General Conference. In nursing, we used GC to denote a patient's lab results indicating positive for gonococcus (the bacteria that causes gonorrhea). Therefore, I felt rude using GC for general conference. But I'm over it now. Besides, it's a common abbreviation used on this site.


> If it is going to be a standard priest at the
> podium talk, I am not interested, such as Jesus
> said this and Jesus said that. That kind of stuff
> does not mean much to me. The person who says
> “it” is not important at all. What is
> important is what is said, what is the reason for
> saying it, can you provide a rational reason, can
> you provide evidence, can we sit down at the table
> of “society” and discuss it like adults and
> come to a decision.

Mormons don't have priests in the sense that nevermos may mean, such as Catholic priests. I never did figure out the hierarchy of the 70s and various presidents and stake this and that. Because they do their ruling bodies in threes it seems redundant and confusing to me. The talks will be standard Mormon fare but not much about Jesus, in my experience (not that I saw that many GCs). There is usually a LOT about Joseph Smith and about missionary work and how successful the church's outreach is. I'm not the expert around here about what goes on at conference. I can't think of anything new or inspiring that ever struck me. I think there is a general opinion, at least amongst exmos, that there is a lot of hype about GC and not much delivery - I never found it spiritual or innovative or stimulating or exciting or educational or inspiring at all. A lot of noise and hype about nothing.


> No. Instead, the Bible is just a set of
> injunctions. No justification is given for the
> rules. Some of the commands are useless such as
> don’t steel, don’t murder.

I don't know what you mean by 'useless'. Of course, most people live by those ideals anyway. In that way, many of religion's basic tenets are obvious and widespread.


> It does not offer in technical, scientific,
> engineering information about this universe. That
> makes sense to me since I am an atheist.

I can relate to that. Of course, many Christians feel that it contains all the answers and may impute more to it than is literally there.


> Don’t eat pigs, shellfish and a few other
> animals. What a bunch of silly sounding rules. How
> about explaining why I should not? What is the
> problem? It just saying it is not clean to you.
> What do you mean by clean Mr Doctor or Mr
> Universe? Is it supposed to be a secret?
> Then Jesus comes along and suddenly, all those
> rules go out the window.

I'm not a Bible scholar, it goes without saying, or even a lay expert, by any means. The way I learned the interpretations of the Bible, from various Christian denominations, fundamentalist and more mainstream evangelical, is that the Old Testament rules, that you mention above, applied to the Jews. I learned that apparently in those times the injunction against certain foods was to protect them from contaminated food. That could be totally wrong but that is the meaning I learned. So it was taught by some groups that the injunctions were God's way of protecting his people (the Jews). It could have been literal at some point and later adopted a spiritual meaning.

The way I learned it as a Christian is that yes, when Jesus "came along", "all those rules go out the window", because "Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law". According to Christians. That is not a Jewish teaching as I understand it. Hence the big divide between the two faiths on the subject of Jesus.

I sure hope I am not giving a totally warped interpretation here, leading to misinformation. But I'm just saying the way I learned it, or how I understood what was being taught by various Christian denominations I attended.


> These religions claim to come from some super
> hyper intelligent being but there is nothing
> intellectual in it. It can’t even write his own
> book, make his own VHS or DVD or appear live on TV
> or make some extremely beautiful art, beautiful
> music.

Many people consider Christian art and monuments to be beautiful. I think of cathedrals and other landmarks to be in this category. Stained glass windows. Churches and cathedrals I have seen in England (London) and France (Paris). Of course, if a person is totally turned off religion they may not seem so attractive. I enjoy them as history as much as art, not from any deep religious attraction. In fact, the way I feel about some religions, there is a stain on some of them, definitely. But as pure ingenuity and beauty (in construction: Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, for instance; Westminster Abbey in London also) as well as history, I appreciate them.

As for music, there is some Christian music I enjoy and a few hymns and as I mentioned here recently, Bach's Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring is my favourite piece. I think it's surpassingly beautiful.


> Don’t get me wrong. I am interested in learning
> about religion and the people.
> However, I want the full facts. There were
> multiple claims by Joseph Smith: one of them is
> with 1 Jesus, then there is one with Jesus and his
> god, then something about 3 guys.

"Something about 3 guys" LOL. That's among the best summaries I have heard of Mormonism! As I said above, they do everything in threes. I, for one, found it very confusing.


> I want to see the original papers, original
> photos.

I think it's possible to see facsimiles or repros. Original - not sure about that.


> “OK, I'll shut up about it now.”
>
> ==You don’t have to. I am open minded and want
> your version, your point of view.

Thank you. Is there something else I left out that you are wondering about?


> “Trying not to be rude. :)”

> ==In my experience, that is not possible. Theists
> will get offended.

LOL - I am in the theist camp still. Not affiliated with any particular denomination any more though. So I guess you could say I'm in no wo/man's land, as I'm among the great Undecided crowd.

I try not to be too rude or condemnatory about other religions as it would be unseemly of me, in my opinion. And perhaps silly - to criticize their faith beliefs while holding fast to my own.

I can see both sides to it all. Often a strange, even uncomfortable, middle ground to be on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2020 06:04PM by Nightingale.

Kabuki theater

If the church was true, then all they would have to do is to print the bom, and people would come get it on their own. No need to threaten and intimidate or try to manipulate their feelings. No need to send young people to peddle and bother folks.

Of course the church doesn't work that way. Missionaries go out telling the same untruthful story that fails to impress on any level.

Don't get me started about church leaders. When I was a member, I loathed hearing BKP speak. If I was at the stake center for the broadcast, I walked outside or even hit the can. That's what I thought about them then.

Oh, I was a missionary when Elder Scott gave that famous talk about victims (rape in particular) needing to take RESPONSIBILITY in such cases. I felt embarrassed because we had an investigator attending GC. That was it and we were told to move on. Later, the mission president was furious that we missionaries had invited non-members to attend GC.

>>"... celebrat[ing] the Bicentennial Year of the Prophet Joseph Smith's First Vision, which ushered in the Restoration, the defining event of our faith! Church Leadership will offer messages of faith and hope that will inspire and uplift us. It is also a wonderful educational opportunity to learn about the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ in our dispensation."

The language used in this is so specialized to Mormonism that IMO the majority of nevermos would turn off to it immediately. Words and phrases like "restoration," "dispensation," and " the prophet Joseph Smith" would send many running. It's like listening to kids discussing the value of various poke-balls in Pokémon Go. You don't understand it, and you come to the conclusion that you don't need or want to understand it.

As much as I would really, really like to spend my weekend watching general conference, that is the time I have scheduled to index my string collection.

I'm thinking of starting a dust-bunny collection.

Tell them that you're committed to painting a wall in your house and that you must watch the paint dry. :D

I will be drinking coffee with booze in it and watching something more uplifting like say..."I Married an Axe Murderer" lol...while Rusty and Co. are spewing forth.

Nightingale said, "Not to be rude, but in what universe would a nevermo who has never expressed any interest in the Mormon Church want to spend an entire weekend watching GC?"

Good question-

It is the same universe that contains the planet kolob, where people live on the sun, and where people live on the moon and look like Quakers.

In other words, in a universe invented by the head con men of the mormons, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

The 200th anniversary of the "defining event which ushered in the Restoration..."??

Sorry, when the mormon church began in 1830, NOBODY had ever heard of the event now called the "First Vision."

When Smith and Cowdery wrote the first attempt at a church history in 1834 (IIRC) THEY said that the beginning of the restoration was when Moroni the angel appeared to Smith in 1823. They didn't even mention 1820 and the so-called "First Vision"... Because Smith hadn't yet made up that story.

Please translate this part of the invitation, for us NeverMos:

... learn about the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ in our dispensation."

In our dispensation? What on earth does that mean??

Thanks all you wise ex-mos for the enlightenment!

Exactly my thoughts. How would a nevermo understand the wording?

They wouldn't. It's complete gibberish to a nevermo. You might as well be talking in Klingon. The person who wrote this (I'm assuming it's an ordinary member) has been inside the bubble for so long that they can't see out.

Googled it. It means we are currently on God's radar!

"The LDS Bible Dictionary says: A dispensation of the gospel is a period of time in which the Lord has at least one authorized servant on the earth who bears the holy priesthood and the keys, and who has a divine commission to dispense the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth."

As opposed to the thousands of years when God was ignoring everyone and letting all the "false" religions run amuk?


I heard that term, dispensation, in awe inspiring tones all my life and this is the first time I even bothered to see what it meant.