Solid Rock Church in Cincinnati is ignoring social distancing guidelines (now mandatory in many of the states in America as well as in Canada and many other countries). The church is planning on continuing to hold mass gatherings. A reporter recently spoke to several people driving into the church parking lot, asking them why they were ignoring expert medical advice that people avoid congregating in large groups. "Because I'm covered in Jesus-es blood" one woman responded, with a big smile. "But what if you contract the virus and/or are asymptomatic and you go back into town and infect someone else?" the reporter asked. "What if they infect ME?" was her reply (which doesn't answer his question and makes no sense).

He asked another woman driving in and got the same answer "Jesus-es blood, baby" she shot back, and quoted a scripture about the blood of Jesus. "Look it up!" she called out merrily. The reporter asked her the same question about any concern she may have that she could contract the virus and then pass it on to someone else. "They could give it to me!" she said. (Again, this makes NO sense. What possible justification is that to take a chance on infecting another human?).

The piece then showed the reporter speaking to a Jesuit priest, Father Martin and asked him what he thought of this church and its followers. The priest replied that it is "a false distinction between faith and science". He said "They are selfish - they will infect others if they are sick". He said it is a strange idea of God - that only "sinners" will get sick. It is "an immoral action" he went on - "unnecessarily dangerous" and "not pro-life". The latter comment is one I hadn't thought of but it's a very good point. If you say you care about preserving life why are you taking a chance with not only your own but that of anyone else you may come into contact with and may inadvertently infect, including strangers and loved ones?

Father Martin said "There are many creative ways to love and serve one another" - that don't include being bone-headed enough to continue to mass gather as if your religious belief renders you immune to a killer virus, he didn't say.


From Journal-News, Butler County:

...

“Any pastor who brings people together in close proximity to each other, a large group of people, is making a huge mistake,” [Ohio Gov] DeWine said. “It is not a Christian thing to do. It is not in the Judeo-Christian tradition to hurt people.”

"He noted that many other faiths and congregations have cancelled their in person services and have gone to remote or virtual services during the pandemic."


(Still from Journal-News): A church statement read, in part:

“If there has ever been a time in the history of our world when we all need God’s help, it is now. For that reason, we believe that the doors of Solid Rock Church should remain open. It is in these times of crisis that the church should play a critical role as a place of refuge … A place where anyone can come to pray, to worship, and to find healing and hope.”

What about not needing refuge or healing if you don't expose yourself to the exceptionally virulent and contagious virus in the first place?


Re "the blood of Jesus" - from one religious web site:

"Compared to the precious blood of Jesus Christ, the most valuable things of this earth (like silver and gold) are reduced to meaningless, perishable things. That is because the blood of Jesus gives Christians salvation of their souls, forgiveness from sins, access to God, victory over the enemy, and the power to live with a clear conscience, something that the gold and silver items in the Old Testament temple could never do. (Kevin Halloran, Minister)


A popular fundamentalist Christian hymn states:


What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! Precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus…



The phrase "blood of Jesus" appears often throughout the Bible. Here is just one verse of the many similar ones that some Christian denominations take and morph meanings:

Ephesians 1:7 says that, “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.”

-----


Perhaps because I wasn't raised to be intensely religious or maybe from being a squeamish nurse, I don't find a huge emphasis on blood to be spiritual or inspiring in the least. The way the fundamentalist believers referred to above interpret the concept of being "covered" or "washed" in his blood, almost literally in some cases, and the fact that they seem to glory in the idea appalls me. It's so very distasteful. All that warm stickiness. And the splashing. It's gruesome. And undesirable. And potentially germy.

If even one worshipper from this church is asymptomatic at the moment they enter that building but has contracted the virus and is shedding it and contaminating others, who then go out into the community and also pass it on, it will be gross negligence, at best, on the part of the pastor, and exceptional ignorance on the part of the congregant. And a potential tragedy for the innocent victim of a careless contaminator.

The reporter asked a man passing in a truck the same question he had asked the women, with much the same response. The man insisted nobody at the church was sick or would get sick. "How do you know?" asked the reporter. "Because I'm the pastor" was the unexpected answer. "And if you publish any fake news about me, you'll be hearing from me" he added, with a big fat phony smile.

It is to cry. And wail. And gnash one's teeth. The sheer stupidity is astounding. Of the pastor. Of his flock. Of anybody in that town in power who could Make It Stop.

Does not public health trump stupid?

It takes a lot for me to be angry and baffled enough to refer to someone as stupid. But in this case, it's no contest. They are STUPID with a capital S. I guarantee one night with a fever of 104 and the chills and the rigors and the chest constriction and the fear will wipe that stupid smile off their stupid gobs.

Thus says Nightingale.
On the somewhat more rational side of the religious spectrum. (At least, in my own mind!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2020 11:56PM by Nightingale.

Well, covered in blood at least. . .

I was going to say that, LW, but I couldn't think of what would cause that, if you mean catching COVID. I was going to say they may end up covered in blood but not the way they expect it to go. But it doesn't work that way with CV, as far as I know.

Covered in dirt, perhaps. When the virus gets 'em.

I meant "covered in blood" the same way she did: as a metaphor for sin or its atonement, the guilt that stems from killing others.

Oh. Too clever for me!

Nah, I had to think about it for a minute, too. If we say you and I are on the same page, I'll feel flattered.

Me too!

I read that Florida's governor has okayed religious gatherings because he considers them essential businesses.

...just like Game Stop?


Every religious person who dies, the survivors in their congregations will suppose they simply weren't faithful enough.

Where are the numbers? How many COVID19 victims believe they are immune by the blood of Jesus? We don’t get those statistics, do we? For all we know, they are. If someone could be bothered to prove them wrong, they would.

In our society, people have a right to die for their beliefs. It’s called religious freedom. We made our bed but don’t want to die in it? I’m all for cheating, so understand the sentiment to stop these gatherings. It’s all academic to me. I won’t get the virus. If I do because I’m not living right, I’ll knock it right out like the cheater I am. Let them do Civil Disobedience like real Americans.

This is a foolish post.

You might as well say people should practice civil disobedience by driving at 60 mph through a residential neighborhood or shooting a rifle towards an occupied sports stadium. People may have a right to die for their beliefs, but not as a byproduct of doing things that put others in mortal danger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2020 03:43AM by Lot's Wife.

Look at it the other way. This isn’t going to be over until everyone has had Coronavirus. Otherwise, starting up society again just starts another wave. Social distancing is to slow the spread. Too much social distancing makes the spread go too slow so it takes too long for people to get sick and build an immunity.

We’re all going to get it. They’re trying to match the rate to the availability of ICU beds, which is a secular solution to the problem. It leaves a lot to be desired since it wrecks the economy. These “Jesus freaks” found another solution. Letting them test it is not only scientific, it would be a boon if it works. That makes it the moral thing to do.

>>Look at it the other way. This isn’t going to be over until everyone has had Coronavirus.

Not so. Physicians got a handle on Ebola by using antibody treatments. They didn't wait until Ebola wiped out half of the population. The antibodies are extracted from the blood plasma of survivors, and could be available more quickly than a vaccine.

Our parents and grandparents didn't just roll over to polio either. They behaved in a cautious manner for as long as they needed to, when polio was running rampant in the U.S. They got the vaccine when it became available. My brother got one of the earliest polio vaccines.

As for the 1918 "Spanish" flu, if you look at photos from more than a hundred years ago, you see a *lot* of people wearing face masks. They didn't have the medical technology back then to fight the flu, so they did what they could until they could ride it out.

bradley,

Not everyone will catch this disease. You are right that the goal is to keep the number of ICU cases below the maximum capacity of the hospital system, but that really matters because people are dying not just from COVID-19 but also from the lack of treatment available to others.

Also, we are not trying to manage the spread until everyone gets infected. The goal is to manage the spread until a vaccine or something comparable is developed. Once that happens, infection will drop towards zero and huge numbers of lives will be saved.

Finally, if you think this is harming the economy--which it is--imagine what would happen if the US lost 500,000 to 1,000,000, and perhaps more, lives suddenly. The effects of that would be devastating. Don't assume that situation would be much better than the present lockdown.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article241715346.html

"Seventy-one members of the Bethany Slavic Missionary Church near Rancho Cordova or people associated with congregation members have been afflicted with the virus, county officials say, making this one of the larger outbreak clusters in the country. One parishioner has died, officials said, and the pastor is sick"

How many others are endangered from these 71?

Maybe they were doing it wrong. This is what happens when religion is a social club rather than a spiritual practice.

Rather like the young Mormon men who have to keep repeating the Sacrament prayer until they get it just right? /s

>>In our society, people have a right to die for their beliefs. It’s called religious freedom.

What they don't have a right to do is to willfully endanger (and perhaps kill) other people.

I liken it to drunk driving. Yes, people have the right to drink alcoholic beverages. What they don't have a right to do is to drive seriously impaired, thus endangering others. People who are amassing in large gatherings, including church-goers, are the equivalent of drunk drivers. They get together, acquire germs, and then go out into the community, and spread the germs. And these are not relatively innocent germs such as a cold or the flu. These are germs that can easily kill.

So you’re suggesting we change the culture. They have their culture, you have yours. You don’t want to honor their beliefs because you fear disaster. Isn’t that like Dallin Oaks fearing gays because too many will cause God to do a repeat of 3 Nephi?

All that is belief. It doesn’t feel good to be endangered. But isn’t being endangered part of the social contract? That’s why we have wars. Okay, maybe not the only reason, but willfully endangering humans (especially the enemy) is part of the game. Why does America have a third world rate of infant mortality? Willful endangerment. Homelessness? Willful endangerment. Healthcare that’s inaccessible to much of the population? Willful endangerment. Willful endangerment is as American as apple pie.

You see, I’m not crazy. I’m just ahead of the curve.

I saw it too. Shocking that people could be so damn selfish. They were all hugging at the door too. One of the idget women went on to say how she was going grocery shopping. Good job (bad word). Roll around in germs and go spread them to others. Hubby and I just looked at each other in shock.

We are staying in the house. God, protect me from your followers.

And foolishness is not restricted to religious people either. Examples: Thousands gathering in beaches for Spring break and large crowds gathered in NY to watch the hospital ship dock. The longer the lock down goes on and people are not infected the more likely they are to take risks.

As a believer who understands the purely symbolic nature of being "covered by the blood" within Christian theology, it does not offer immunity from stupidity. I stopped attending large church gatherings well before the lock down was determined here in Idaho. Seeing how it was growing into a really big thing in Europe from where I had returned, I did not share the seemingly unconcerned attitude prevalent here and fostered by those in authority. We are seeing the result of that apathy.