That is how many the church claims as members vs world population and probably about the same odds Oaks had of a pretty girl talking to him in college.
I think people just said it was 'true' because of strong social pressure and parents. I didn't think it was true but everyone else did so i said it was true a couple times in the all powerful microphone when i was very young. In the back of my mind i had about a million questions that i was too afraid to ask because i would get the robot tape " it will all be answered in the millenium"
And i am dead certain from what i have read of jesus in the new testament, the guy did not strike me as a guy that would do death oaths or secret handshakes or chant. He actually was against secret combinations but mormons do not read the bible, like, at all. Even though the bible is probably mostly if not all false it still contradicts mormonism. Hell, the real jesus alone by himself contradicts mormonism. New testament jesus i mean when i say real jesus.
You'd be amazed what people would say is true for survival purposes and social pressure to fit in to the herd. Like in the book 1984. Insane pressure was put on the guy to convince him that 2+2=5.
Keep in mind this if the numbers the church claimed is true. It is more likely 1/3 of that so 0.006% or about the same odds as Bednar getting into heaven.
Great point, LW. When I was an active believer, I often wondered what people meant when the testified that "They knew the Church was true." First, what is "the Church" exactly; and second, as you say, what does it mean to say that an entity (particularly a social or religious entity) is "true?"
I suppose one could try to identify a set of "necessary" tenets of Mormonism (beliefs) such that believing in such tenets would be deemed required to identify oneself as a Mormon. Arguably, (A) belief in a literal interpretation of the BoM would be one; and (B) belief that JS was directed by God (a prophet), would be another. There are a lot more tenets associated with Mormonism, of course, but maybe for purposes of discussion these two are the defining tenets that can be used jointly to evaluate whether "the Church" is true. Thus, we might ask, as the OP, what are the odds that A and B (jointly as a logical conjunction) are true?
Since the odds of (A) being true can be objectively evaluated; and since such odds really are close to zero; that fact alone would logically falsify the conjunction.
If (A) and (B), then T; Not (A) Therefore, not T (Where T= Mormonism is true)
In short, given that (A) is almost certainly false, by objective standards, it is also highly improbable that "the Church" is true.
Another way of looking at this is to argue that unless a Mormon can somehow show that the BoM is "true," the entire foundation of Mormonism collapses; and in particular arguments about JS, or any other tenet, become irrelevant to the truth of "the Church."
Right, the greater the number of parts that require proof, the less chance of the whole being true. I'm no math wizard, but I suspect each part you add geometrically decreases the likelihood of it being true.
The "church" is an inanimate object.It cannot think, speak, sing hear nor listen.H O W E V E R those who have gained power positions can! And do! They in the holy name of "Mother Church" forcibly interfere with the rights of whomsoever will allow them to do so
For me now, there is 0% chance. There is simply too much evidence to show that Joseph Smith was nothing more than a Jim Jones or a David Koresh typical cult leader.
I believe that playing the ghawd lottery, via the Mormon church, is like playing the lottery with a forged ticket that they sold you without telling you that you had to make payments on the ticket until you died.
The Mormon definition of “truth” (which is shared by many other religions) conveniently avoids pesky facts. Truth is revealed by emotion, not evidence.
Moroni 10:5 states that by the power of the Holy Ghost you can know the truth of all things.
This is how the mormon church manipulates (brainwashes/converts) everyone who believes in it. It’s seems quite effective too. My new feelings trigger me to feel it is definitely BS. Mormons say 100%. I’d say 0%. Also convenient for them is that you can be perceived as being influenced by the spirit of evil if you disagree with them.
With Mormons, it's either a three step process, or a never ending loop.
1) read the BoM 2) pray 3a) you receive a spiritual witness, you have proven that it's true 3b) you receive no witness. That means you weren't sincere enough, or sufficiently humble, or your heart and mind aren't pure enough, or the Lord is trying to test your patience. In any case, return to step 2 (or maybe step 1) until you get it right.
ChurchCo doesn't follow-thru with Honesty & Kindness, they're ONLY lip service (ask if U don't believe me!); instead, they substitute Mormon stuff as their real objective(s), Actual Christ-like living is ONLY a distraction.
Therefore, since they've effectively abandoned the underpinnings of Christ's gospel that they advertise to 'get gain' ... In what possible way could they be 'true'?
Answer: NONE.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2020 11:56AM by GNPE.
The same question JW's ask of themselves. Is the Watchtower true? How about Scientology? How about the True Church of God just down the street from me that I pass all the time? The list is endless. Our brains get wired in a particular way when we have been in a cult for awhile that makes us accept absurdities and it takes time to rewire them to think clearly. There is no way the Mormon corporation is God's (if it exists) true corporation.
Eric K Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There is no way the Mormon > corporation is God's (if it exists) true > corporation.
Hegel's thesis, antithesis, synthesis might be at work here and the Geist of creation is to make a Borg Church?
Kwaku doesn't agree,and he keeps coming up with "evidences". But they end up not holding water. I was once like Kwaku, young and believing all kinds of spurious evidences. That was before the internet era.
What are the odds that there is only one correct religion on Earth and that my family members and I just happened to be born into it? Quite small, I would say.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2020 01:42PM by scmd1.
The evidence doesn't allow for it to be true. It's simply contradicted everywhere evidence is available.
The only path forward for LDS claims is under a trickster god premise such that evidence is no longer evidential. But then there is no working premise for any form of knowledge.
Ha ha ha. It is true, a true collection of buildings and dupes. That's not fake. Now, as for the god part, everyone tells ghost stories. The smart know fiction from fact. For those without a clue, no doubt the church is true.
The odds of the church being true are about the same odds as waking up one morning next to a sea-bag full of unmarked bills and being struck by a falling coconut in eastern Washington.
The same odds as Moses parting the Red Sea, talking donkeys, 1000 year old men, Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, JC walking on water and evangelical healing not being fake.
I think the church could be viewed as a collective cultural hallucination. Joseph knew how to induce them, at least with the eight witnesses (who saw the golden plates with their spiritual eyes) and the Kirtland temple dedication.
The effect is similar to a “pipe dream”, which comes from the days of popular smoking of opium. Superstition, spiritualism, and magical thinking we’re so ingrained in the public imagination at that time that more people were susceptible to Joseph’s special mojo.
Missionaries troll for investigators who get a contact high from them and want more.