Just had a conversation with someone implying that being spiritual could only come through religion--the implication being they were more in touch. Grrrrr.

Went to look up what the world in general had to say about the odorless, tasteless, invisible subject.


Ha!

OMG. There is no end the interpretations of that word. Spiritualism. A chameleon of a word. Claimed by everyone as their own. Seems to be anything and everything. Harder to pin down than who is Schroedinger's God du jour. (Said with kindness Schroedie) The Deepak Chopra stuff really freaked me out. Drinking hard liquor may even come into this. Call 'em Spirits for reason you know.

But, seems to boil down to two things---in general. Connecting with the dead or the pre-living--or-- connecting with yourself, with the consideration that there is a separate spiritual entity to us that should not be considered part of the self. Of course this would already be inside our selves already connected. Uh . . .

So which one are you aiming for? Outies or innies? Seances or the mystic within?

For me, until some people you can see through make themselves known to me which hasn't happened yet, I can only concern myself with door number two---the Caspar within.




Perhaps the first rule of spiritualism is to not follow someone else's lead letting them tell you how to fulfill your life? Accepting that they know and you don't! Seems to get people in trouble every time. Or into a cult. Or bed?

Whether I have a spirit or not, the times I feel the most spiritual is when I listen to myself while eyeing what others say suspiciously though eagerly. To me, feeding my spirit is cramming as many life experiences into the the cocktail shaker where the various parts of my brain are hanging out and allowing them to mix and match ideas as they choose. I get lots of "aha moments" that way from the frontal cortex with cerebrum, cerebellum and all the other lobes hopping until it's practically a group tango. That feels spiritual to me---tingly even, because the stomach and toes are connected and waiting to "feel it."

New things that come from collisions. They jigger your life. Being jiggered. That is spiritualism--the opposite of stagnation.
This will leave you "fascinate-able" which should be the goal rather than wanting to be fascinating.


"Being spellbindable is my fate." Wayne Koestenbaum.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> New things that come from collisions. They jigger
> your life. Being jiggered. That is
> spiritualism--the opposite of stagnation.
> This will leave you "fascinate-able" which should
> be the goal rather than wanting to be
> fascinating.

Could we want both? :)

May I be the first to say you have a way with words, D&D? (Or the millionth & 1st?)


I learned during my numerous trips through fundy groups that spiritualism is bad, bad, bad due to Bible verses mandating against messing about with spectres and such. Therefore, to them, spiritualism is decidedly not synonymous with spirituality. Even still, one elicits an aversion reaction in me (being wrong, wrong and wrong) and the other has a positive connotation for me. (I know that's not the case for possibly 97% of RfMer's).

Definitions from Wiki, because I’m lazy:

Spiritualism:

“Spiritualism is a religious movement based on the belief that the spirits of the dead exist and have both the ability and the inclination to communicate with the living. The afterlife, or the "spirit world", is seen by spiritualists, not as a static place, but as one in which spirits continue to evolve.

“Spiritualism. Spiritualism, in philosophy, a characteristic of any system of thought that affirms the existence of immaterial reality imperceptible to the senses. So defined, spiritualism embraces a vast array of highly diversified philosophical views.”


Spirituality:

“Spirituality is a broad concept with room for many perspectives. In general, it includes a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life. As such, it is a universal human experience—something that touches us all.

“Traditionally, spirituality referred to a religious process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man", oriented at "the image of God" as exemplified by the founders and sacred texts of the religions of the world. The term was used within early Christianity to refer to a life oriented toward the Holy Spirit and broadened during the Late Middle Ages to include mental aspects of life.

“In modern times, the term both spread to other religious traditions and broadened to refer to a wider range of experience, including a range of esoteric traditions and religious traditions. Modern usages tend to refer to a subjective experience of a sacred dimension and the "deepest values and meanings by which people live", often in a context separate from organized religious institutions, such as a belief in a supernatural (beyond the known and observable) realm, personal growth, a quest for an ultimate or sacred meaning, religious experience, or an encounter with one's own
"inner dimension".


From compellingtruth.org: “In contemporary society, Christian spirituality is generally defined as a set of beliefs, values, and way of life that reflect the teachings of the Bible, the holy book of Christianity.”

I don't know who "compellingtruth" is but this is the definition with which I am most familiar and comfortable.


(Eek. My lamp just fell over all by itself. Right when I'm "delving into" spiritualism. That was creepy. Jolted my heart).



D&D: "New things that come from collisions. They jigger your life. Being jiggered."

I did not know that 'jigger' could apply to a person who dances a jig. Ha! See what you learn when you look stuff up. That just gave me a pleasant memory - my dad loved words. He is the only person I have ever known who actually sat and read the dictionary. He taught us kids a new word every day. Even yet, every time I utter one of those "big words" he gave us I think of him. I bet he never imagined that his lessons would be recalled decades later. I remember 'panacea' the most. Not a word you casually drop every day. In fact, I haven't used it since Grade 10. Until just now. :)

There's an old expression (that Dad also used): "Well, I'm jiggered", meaning surprised or astonished. It can also mean broken ("my car's jiggered"). It has a close connection (like a synonym) to another meaning (classified as vulgar British slang) that I cannot write here. Due to the latter, I will not be likely to use this word. Even though most people who might hear me may not know this meaning, I do, so wouldn't be comfortable with uttering it. I only know that meaning because my English dad was the master of all cussers ever in the entire universe. Funny how that didn't rub off on me - I prefer non-profane language (except if it stays inside my head where it's quiet, yet satisfying under exceptionally trying conditions). To be clear, Dad didn't use this word in its worst connotation but still we knew it - funny that.

As for collisions creating new things: I like that idea. Yet again, collisions can be bad things and yet with this usage is likely positive. The world is full of paradoxes. Makes it interesting.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2020 07:45PM by Nightingale.

You made me love your Dad, Nightingale. I couldn't read the dictionary--would prefer to find words along the way, like you--hearing your Dad's favorites.

I like my words shaken, stirred, and jiggered. I like my life that way too.

Looking back, it was all the collisions that made it worth living. The smash-up with Mormonism that turned into a pile-up and woke me up. The knock-down with bullies that uncovered my own muscle. The flattening that left me nowhere to go but up. And running smack dab into the wall on which was written, "Mormonism robbed you of a personality," which made me see myself for the first time as a blank slate and know that from now on I would be the only one to go crazy with the chalk. Lots of colored chalk.

So all these decades later I see that all the jolts through my life coalesced somehow into that fabled thing that is a whole lot greater than the sum of its parts and wouldn't be the same without every one of those parts.

Look what electricity did for Frankenstein.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You made me love your Dad, Nightingale.

Your comment touched my heart, Done & Done. Thank you.


> ... from now
> on I would be the only one to go crazy with the
> chalk. Lots of colored chalk.

I love this visual. Lots of coloured chalk. Yes, indeed.


> ...a whole lot greater than the
> sum of its parts and wouldn't be the same without
> every one of those parts.

This is a great way to look at all the cuts and scrapes and deeper wounds that combine to make us who we are. Usually much richer in myriad ways than we would be if they had not occurred. Less plastic, more steel. Fewer fortune cookie platitudes and more knowledge, know-how and warmth.

"spiritualism can only come through religion" I would say there is some partial truth to that statement.

For most people spiritualism should have a foundation or training in some kind of religion, or they would never recognize the out of the ordinary. It's like learning to read,... Someone has to point out what the alphabet is. Students need a teacher. But there may come a point when the student out grows the school. Or finds out the school is teaching the wrong stuff, even though they learned along the way helpful information.

Interesting topic :)

I have more faith in most humans than you do apparently, Mac. Especially today where there is so much information and varied life experience at our fingertips to internalize and cause great introspections. Church fosters extrospection which is the enemy of exploration. Watch "Babette's Feast" and tell me who was the most spiritual after.

Are the pews really the best class room? The temple with its Dick and Jane play? I remember when mass was in Latin. Little hard for the Catholics from the Great and Abominable church to learn much that way. Handling snakes while pretending to talk in tongues? Which religion makes it partially true that spritualism can only come through them? Maybe some Eastern relgions? And maybe not.



When someone else tells you what is what and you accept that and accept that they "know" and you don't, personal exploration--the key to spirituality, stops. Mormons aren't the only ones with the "I KNOW" problem--they are just a little more out front about it.

Even the Bible warns against this in the Bible if you know how to read the Bible. In other words, don't let anyone interpret for you, tell you what it says. Figure it out yourself if you claim it is the be-all-end-all.


For instance, "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither. do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly. Father feedeth them."

In church they will often tell you this means to trust in God no matter what. All is taken care of. Looking at it another way, what this bit means is don't think or act for yourself. God will take care of every thing. (If you do as you are told--from the pulpit).That is lousy advice that stunts spiritual growth.

Sez I.

And yes. Everyone and their mother has interpreted the Bible for their own purpose,so, why not me too?

The first thing a religious nut will tell you is that she/he is not religious. He/she is spiritual.

Spiritual.

Definitely the most valuable word in religion. Can't be seen tasted, or sniffed and if you try to touch it your hand goes straight through and you won't get any on you. Convenient.

From birth it's spirit, spirit, spirit no matter which brand of religion your parents chose at the God Mart.

"I felt the spirit so strong," when said in church translates to "I am so special." So important to know the true meaning of all of religions best lines.

Hard to top the Holy Ghost whispering in your ear to guide you although he is only going to do that if you are on the right track and don't need guidance. Touch yourself once and it's all over with him. You're on your own now kid.


"The spirit of God like a fire is burning" or, "They're going to think something is wrong with you if you aren't feeling toasted, so better fake it like everybody else."



Feelings. Whoa whoa "woe", feelings . . .

Dave, it's also used by a lot of people who were raised in a religion, but outgrew it.

I was raised by a dad who didn't just buy into anything. I just found out recently that he told my brother the word of wisdom was bullshit. Sounds like my dad. We were raised to think for ourselves, except where he was concerned. We were to do what we were told. I've said before that he kept asking me if I knew my "husband" was gay before I married him. Then he finally told me I was too intelligent to have done that. Then I told him I knew and some of what transpired.

I never bore my testimony unless forced like at girls' camp. I never fit into mormonism and there are many reasons I didn't.

My mother always told me I was her most spiritual child and she told me that when I told them I was no longer going to be mormon. She said you can be spiritual without being any religion.

I tend to have good intuition and I always thought I had to base that on my mormonism, but now I do have experiences that I consider spiritual, but I don't share them with many people. Most people don't know very personal things about what makes me tick and why I live and think the way I do. In reality, most of the people I'm around don't want to listen to me. I'm only here to listen to them and so that is what I do.

Other than those few what I call spiritual experiences, I see my ability to predict things as my intuition. I picked my daughter's husband 6 years before she finally married him. I told her that is who she would marry and she did everything she could to prove me wrong. I knew for a few years that my old boyfriend would be coming back into my life, but I didn't tell anyone about it. I still was surprised that he actually did. After 27 years, wouldn't you be? It is just a matter of when I I am paying attention.

Paying attention!

That may be all spirituality is. You may have distilled the whole thing to its essence, cl2.

I am reasonably sure whatever it is that it is not on one's iPhone and doesn't require your thumbs spasming out castrated words.

I don't think that religions or religious people get to be the gatekeepers of spirituality.

Yet they ended up running the asylum.