If "God" is eternal going forward in time, did God always exist going infinitely back in time?

Or was God the Father once a man on some distant planet, who became an exalted God by memorizing secret handshakes, donating a lot of money, and blindly believing lots of whimsical and nonsensical stuff?

On 9/6/77, Spencer W Kimball spoke to BYU about "Absolute Truths" which is basically a lot of religious, whimsical, nonsensical stuff. You can look it over here:

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/spencer-w-kimball/absolute-truth/

"The Gods organized the earth of materials at hand, over which they had control and power. This truth is absolute."

and more "The Gods organized and gave life to man and placed him on the earth. This is absolute. It cannot be disproved."

. . .and TCOJCOLDS is the "only true and living church that is fully recognized with the authority to perform for Him, and the only one with a total and comprehensive and true program which will carry men to powers unbelievable and to realms incredible. This is an absolute truth. It cannot be disproved. It is as true and the near-spherical shape of the earth, and as gravity; as true as the shining of the sun."

Fast forward to 1988 Relief Society manual: one section has a BOLD heading: GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN

1997 TIME magazine (8/4/97) Kimball, on whether the church still holds that God the Father was once a man: "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it...I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it".

. . . and now. . . SCIENCE:
"Spacetime" is a mysterious 4-dimensional substance that controls time, light, and energy and will ultimately determine the fate of our universe.

"Singularity" is an infinitely dense and infinitely small point with incomprehensible gravity, from which the "Big Bang" created the Known Universe about 13.8 billion years ago.

but wait. . ."Quantum Mechanics" theorizes that in the subatomic realm, nothing can be infinitely small or dense, and therefore "Singularity" is impossible.

Quick sidetrack: there are mysterious dark areas on the outer edge of the universe, and here's a possible explanation:
Our universe is actually just one universe out of a vast number of universes. Think of a universe as an expanding soap bubble in a vast sea of bubbles. When one bubble (universe) interacts with another universe, a mysterious dark area occurs at the area of the disturbance.

A really wild theory is that "Quantum Spacetime" explains that 13.8 billion years ago, our current Universe was created out of the remnants of a dying and collapsing previous Universe.

Going one step further, the "Infinite Spacetime Cycle" theorizes that there is a continual cycle of Universe birth, death and rebirth. This could continue infinitely into the future, but the mind-boggling thing is that this cycle also exists infinitely into the past.

Even with a combination of the smartest physicists/scientists in the world with the greatest super-computers, complex mathematical formulas/equations cannot explain all the wild theories above. To make the mathematics work a little better, physicists theorize things like "dark energy" and "dark matter".

Advanced Scientific Theory (over the head of 99.99999% of humans):
the Universe consists of:
68% Dark Energy
27% Dark Matter
5% Normal Matter

Most stuff is dark, the way I see it.

Wasn't Kimball long deceased in 1997?

Spencer Woolley Kimball (March 28, 1895 – November 5, 1985)

Kimball was quoted in the 1997 TIME magazine article.

Hinckley was quoted in the 1997 article.

You can read it here if you have an account

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601970804,00.html


For those of us who don't have an account, there is this

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,138108,00.html

"And not just the converts. In an interview with TIME, President Hinckley seemed intent on downplaying his faith's distinctiveness. The church's message, he explained, "is a message of Christ. Our church is Christ-centered. He's our leader. He's our head. His name is the name of our church." At first, Hinckley seemed to qualify the idea that men could become gods, suggesting that "it's of course an ideal. It's a hope for a wishful thing," but later affirmed that "yes, of course they can." (He added that women could too, "as companions to their husbands. They can't conceive a king without a queen.") On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain, "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

oops

looks like I got Kimball and Hinckley mixed up

oh well . . . . they both had rather "mixed up" religious theories and beliefs . . .

My question is Can you accept anything that is not in your current paradigm?

Hey! How come you never mentioned Einstein even once?! How are we supposed to trust you?

Humble yourself in the face of Science you 99.99999% of humans.

Methinks OPie is among the 99.99999% of people who doesn't understand science.

Humble yourself in the face of your 99% DNA commonality with chimpanzees.

Einstein died April 18, 1955 in Princeton Hospital, and so his incredible scientific work was accomplished entirely without the benefit of powerful computer assistance.

In 1917, Einstein applied the general theory of relativity to the structure of the universe and discovered that the general field equations predicted a universe that was dynamic. As observational evidence for a dynamic universe was not known at the time, Einstein introduced a new term, the cosmological constant, to the field equations, in order to allow the theory to predict a static universe.

The "cosmological constant" was later discarded by Einstein, and some considered that to be his "biggest blunder". But was it really a "blunder"? Normal scientific progress requires advanced theories that are later revised or disproven.

Einstein considered a steady-state model of the expanding universe many years before other geniuses. However, Einstein's steady-state model contained fundamental flaws.

Bottom Line: Einstein and contemporaries produced scientific advancements and theories without the use of powerful computers (and the early telescopes were quite limited in power). Early physicists were way ahead of their time.

"it cannot be disproved" ...

At the very beginning. Which, oddly enough, was the Stone Age.

Started with Thunder and it's been all the way tot he bank from there.

Keep guessing.

You didn't get the memo ? god is outside of time and space.

But god is inside of Walmart. He used to be the blue light special at K-mart, but they were not worthy, so he changed marts.

+Dave the Atheist:
"You didn't get the memo ? god is outside of time and space."

==Ah, that old christian line that gets repeated over and over with no evidence.
If he is outside our time and space, then he is inside some other space. Either that or he is no where.

~~~~iceman9090

mrx Wrote:
>
> Advanced Scientific Theory (over the head of
> 99.99999% of humans):
> the Universe consists of:
> 68% Dark Energy
> 27% Dark Matter
> 5% Normal Matter

Great post.

But who's the .00001% who's figured out what Dark Matter/Energy consists of?
I must have missed the news about the Nobel Committee awarding her a Nobel Prize for finally resolving the biggest remaining mystery.

And, if God has ALWAYS existed, what had he been doing all that time before he created the universe? (He can't have been practicing, or he would have done a better job on this one, instead of having to destroy it in a flood and start over)

I tend to think of the word God in the same terms defined by cosmologists and string theorists, as in, 'nature'.
So your question, could be restated, "If Nature exists, when did Nature's existence begin?"

Nature does exist, otherwise we would not.
And when did it begin?
At least since the Big Bang.
Which leads to the next question,
What about before the Big Bang?
Answer: We don't know, since, Nobody's seen back that far, yet. But suspect it was the singularity.

And before the singularity ?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And before the singularity ?

One eternal round.
It recycles, just like the singularity at the center of the black hole in the center of our galaxy. It swallows stars and planets whole and radiates out an equal amount of Hawking Radiation, plasma jets of ionized gases, that coalesce as star dust, which is slowed down, gains mass and becomes matter. E=mc^2 and m=E/c^2
Super symmetrically.

God is a black hole.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God is a black hole.

Since nobody knows what exactly a black hole is or if it even they exist, it's fun to speculate about it.

It seems entirely possible that what we see as a black hole at the center of our galaxy, and every other galaxy we can see, is really a portal to a parallel (alternate) universe that exists beyond the 3 (or 4) dimensional universe we inhabit. (Interstellar was based upon that premise and Kipp Thorne and Stephen Hawking consulted on it.)

or a shortcut to the other side of the universe, or another universe in the multiverse.

Since our black hole, SagA* is 25,000 light years away from us, perhaps the Hawking Radiation flowing out of it, is really a projection of the 4 dimensional universe inside the "black hole" and what happens here, already happened 25,000 years ago, in a parallel universe and what we see as real (5% matter) is really just light slowed down, by the God Particle (Higgs Boson) long enough to matter.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since our black hole, SagA* is 25,000 light years
> away from us, perhaps the Hawking Radiation
> flowing out of it, is really a projection of the 4
> dimensional universe inside the "black hole" and
> what happens here, already happened 25,000 years
> ago, in a parallel universe and what we see as
> real (5% matter) is really just light slowed down,
> by the God Particle (Higgs Boson) long enough to
> matter.

I've read this 5 times. I think the flaw is nothing comes out of a black hole right? So Hawking Radiation isn't able to project anything in it right? And maybe God is in the black hole and sacrificed themself to become a black hole so we all could live?

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I've read this 5 times. I think the flaw is
> nothing comes out of a black hole right?

Wrong, at least according to Hawking's last theory, Hawking Radiation. According to him, there's no such thing as 'Black Holes', since the energy radiating out of them (Hawking Radiation) equals the mass that spirals into the holes, not just the hole at the center of the galaxy, but the hole at the center of all the galaxies, not just in our galactic neighborhood, Laneakea, Immeasurable Sky, but in all the galactic neighborhoods. Since finding out, thanks to the Hubbel Space Telescope, that Laneakea is hurtling towards a dark mystery in the sky at a speed of over a million mph, pulling along with it, all the galaxies in her, towards the Great Attractor.
Not, just Laneakea (Immeasurable Sky),
but all the Neighborhoods of galaxies, are being born out of the trail of stardust, left behind, by the Great Attractor, 100 million light years ahead of us, and accelerating, like a hole, going faster than light, to another dimension, we will see in about 250 million years from now. (one full rotation of all the stars and planets in our Milky Way)

400 million light-years in size located around 250 million light-years away.

Think about that.

http://www.solstation.com/x-objects/greatatt.htm

> So
> Hawking Radiation isn't able to project anything
> in it right? And maybe God is in the black hole
> and sacrificed themself to become a black hole so
> we all could live?

If it can happen, it might have happened 250 million light years away.

which might as well be in another dimension we will never see, because by the time we see it, it's 250 million years old.
What we see happened 250 million years ago.

Yet, if it's 250million light years away and it's 400million light years across, that means we're probably inside of "It"

And if the whole universe was smaller than an atom, before the big bang, at the singularity, that means it could have been the size of a God Particle,
Meaning, you're in it, and it could be in you.
You're swimming in god (particle) and it is swimming in you.
It's everywhere,
Continually turning inside out.
Perhaps what we call 'god'
Is just short for 'nature'
and yes, we are created in her image,
her genius
as is anything else that matters
or energies



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2020 01:16PM by schrodingerscat.

Dang spend-thrift Black Hole, radiating out the same amount of matter it absorbs!

As for Hawking radiation, that's a total growth industry for a Black Hole: it gains the exact amount of Hawking Radiation it sends out.

I'd probably read your Einstein comic book series!

"The Gods organized the earth of materials at hand, over which they had control and power. This truth is absolute."

Yeah. Absolute BS.

Time could be cyclical. Then there would be an endless series of Big Bangs. It’s like walking around in a circle that looks like a straight line but when you get to the end it’s actually the beginning. So it’s turtles all the way down.

Time could be an artifact of consciousness in an animistic universe. I like that one because then everything is made out of love and a supernova is a cosmic orgasm.

There are important issues at stake here. Like, do Hindu gods have to sing Happy Birthday 4 times when they wash their hands?

And does a lamp powered by dark energy suck light out of a room?

Tell me all you can about Urim without mentioning Thumim.

If you put batteries in a flashlight backwards it sucks in light.

Hold it, hold it, hold it. Things have changed. It doesn't matter what the past Prophets have said. Some anonymous guy recently wrote an essay on the church's web-site, that has changed everything in the eternities. You don't get your own universe. You don't even get your own planet. You only get to be "like god"..... I guess that's what you get for joining a cult. It's a bait and switch religion. They promise you happiness if you will join their cult. Then they take away your happiness and promise you godhood if you will give them ten-percent of your income for the rest of your life. Then they take away the godhood promise and just say that you can become "like god"............. whatever.

Weren't we all made in God's likeness? We are already like God.

+mrx:
“To make the mathematics work a little better, physicists theorize things like "dark energy" and "dark matter".”

==Those things are called placeholders. This is because science has a predictive power.
For example, when the periodic table of the elements was developed, there were multiple holes. It was predicted that those would be elements that are not yet detected. One was below aluminium and was called eka- aluminium, one was scandium and one was below silicon and was called eka-silicon. They were able to predict their oxidation state, density, mp, atomic mass.
In particle physics, the same kind of thing happens since a few thousands particles are discovered, so nature has a pattern and it is possible to predict how nature functions, what exists.
Another case was with neon. It was discovered during spectroscopy (atomic mass spectroscopy) that there are 2 masses for neon. It was discovered the same for copper and on and on it went until someone predicated that there must be a new particle, quite massive, it adds about the same mass as the proton to the atom and is neutral.

“Fast forward to 1988 Relief Society manual: one section has a BOLD heading: GOD IS AN EXALTED MAN”

==That’s nice but can Mr Relief prove anything? Can he explain and demonstrate something for the rest of the experts to see.
The answer for religion has always been no.
We call these things just-so stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story

~~~~iceman9090

god is a snake eating its tail. When the tip of the tail pokes out his back side, his head circles around and starts eating it again.

It never ends.

Human centipede.

With nothing but left feet.

And holes.

MRX to answer your question: June 15, 1952.

That is when Bednar was born.

Pretty sure God exists in his own mind and that he is God.

If "God" exists, when did God's existence begin?
In the cool cool cool of the evening!

Dark matter=black hole=sun=all life. Some people made up cruel robotic gods and Goddesses and made all religions pro war instead of pro life. From what I said with my different names on this website, midnightseahorse, Sungoddess, and now SunGoddess, I refuse to believe in a violent God. This is why I got kicked out of all those Mormon and Christian churches. I even got kicked out of Satan, Wicca/pagan, and Taoist groups. I guess I'm not a good robot. I guess I'll just stick with good angels and be my own peacefull SunGoddess.

Dog ceased to exist when ChurchCo dumped Honesty & Kindness, etc.
after that, Mormons all became slaves to the org;


you can't disprove that!

Honesty and Kindness without a yellow t shirt?

I don't know that we teach that.