Raw From All This

Posts by ookami and kentish hit a nerve for me yesterday--one that that seemed to have been skinned of any protective covering.

I meant what I said, but, am afraid I pointed my words at them when the release of those words was just the culmination of listening to and watching so many others daily in my life, who don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves and aren't afraid to wrap themselves in the constitution to do so.

I do not believe for a minute that the above describes either of you. I let you be the catalyst for something else.


I feel skinned to the bone.

Had to lay off many dozens of employees who have been with me forever like family when this began. Just now officially allowed to have them back with with restrictions.

When this happened I just put my head down and bulldozed on doing everything I could on my own with a skeleton crew working from home to keep things going. In the mean time putting up plexiglas dividers, stocking up on masks and sanitizer and putting up signs and finding hospital grade disinfectant. And still I'm scared to have them back but so grateful they are excited to come and anxious to follow every guideline.

So now they can come back I have allowed myself to finally fall apart and let it hit me.



And then, in his state, I see those saying they have a RIGHT to do as they damn well please. Guaranteed by the constitution they say. And, they close the park a ways away in the hills where people pack into the trails like maggots on dead cow and they all come up our canyon road instead with out masks in groups and walking down the middle like they own it so you have to honk to get by. Or they run past me with their sweat and breath flowing behind them when I just read a scientist who warned they are leaving a fifteen foot trail of droplets. Do they care? The news has people packing into churches and restaurants and bars like it is nothing. Sure that God, or their youth, or the flag will protect them.

Talking to others who are definitely going to lose everything or go through hell to rebuild their businesses, their lives, but care about doing the right thing and so follow the guidelines tat protect everyone. And I feel deeply for them. And then open the paper to read how various celebrities are weathering the storm or people freaking out cuz their hair looks so bad and they can't get their root touched up.


Gets to me. Is erring on the side of caution really that hard?

The heart of the Constitution is for the greater good not to make sure spoiled brats get exactly what they want when they want. I love everyone who gets that. I want to actually believe that all the phony baloney commercials on TV who start with "we are all in this together" weren't full of crap.

We are not all in this together. Many have opted out.

“Many have opted out.”

As a former TBM, I can really appreciate their passive aggression.

This whole calamity exposes the selfish bastards among us. I just had no idea there were so many.

Yes, I find the apparent prevalence of selfishness in our wider society to be very disheartening.

The TV special that I saw last night (that followed doctors and nurses around a Bronx, NY hospital for a week -- If that couldn't scare the **** out of people, I don't know what would. What really got to me was when one medical worker talked about how dangerous it is for them to intubate someone. Apparently there are droplets in the lungs that are forcibly expelled when a patient is intubated. And they might be intubating ten patients a day. Yes, the doctors and nurses are wearing PPE, but even so, one physician and one EMT in their hospital got Covid anyway. Thankfully, they both recovered.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole calamity exposes the selfish bastards
> among us. I just had no idea there were so many.

Kathleen:
I have found throughout my 84 years on this planet that the human beings which inhabit it will always do that which they "PERCEIVE" to be in their best interest. Now it may not in fact be in their best interest but if they perceive it to be so they will so act.
I agree with your statement because I did not realize how many selfish there actually were. selfish and totally egocentric

Some of that attitude at play up here in Canada too. And some in denial about the virus...as their neighbors and coworkers are sick and dying. Protests about the lockdown, etc. In the darker corners of my cynical, contrarian heart I secretly hope their actions come back to bite them.

"How dare you think about the greater good instead of MY personal needs and wants! It's like you think you're King George!!

"Give me Liberty AND give me Death cuz I'm totally worth it!"

_______

The above does not necessarily represent the thoughts or beliefs of the body I currently inhabit.

Kentish and ookami are good people. I'm pretty sure they can handle momentary irascibility, especially from someone normally as warm and supportive as you.

Correct about all three.

An internet & web service outfit in my area closes their radio ads, "Remember! Informed customers remain loyal customers!"

I'm sure you're on top of this, but it bears repeating, to remind your customers and clients that you look forward to serving and providing for them as soon as you can. Everybody knows that everything is suck-ville, but reminding them of what you've done, and will do, can only help.

Same for your employees and subordinates.

My son does graphics. I had him make a window sign for my barber, "Welcome Back! I'm happy to fix that home haircut!"

And everybody: when you get back to going out (irony unintended), overtip servers, ride-share drivers, bartenders, etc. if you can. Everybody has a lot of catching-up to do.

Maybe I speak for many here by saying, to lose one of my own would kill me faster than the virus.

If everyone would just look out for just ONE extra person, if that's all they could do, the world could overcome a pandemic.

I understand. I feel ramfeezled about practically everything.

I feel this whole thing could have been handled differently with a consistent plan with scientific guidelines and consensus (not just scientists who agree to a certain view for fear of losing their jobs) from the top leadership at the beginning.

People at risk could have stayed quarantined while practices/behavior could have been modified to maintain businesses. The supply chain and manufacturing could have had better directives probably instead of everyone just winging it like a bunch of pirates.

Unfortunately everything intentionally is being used to divide and confuse everyone. People wear seat belts. There are many other things we do to protect ourselves and others. Where is the feeling of accountability? I do understand it could get ugly if people are starving on the streets. It didn't have to be this way if things had been presented differently IMO.

I am tired. I am involved in hyperimmune plasma development and manufacturing where I work for a global company (I have huge issues with big pharma but that's another topic). I am disappointed about how confusing this has all been due to the lack of scientific support from the top. We do not yet know if what we are producing will help as a treatment, but many of us are trying.
Don't get me started on the testing kits and regulatory oversight of them (specificity, efficacy, etc.). I feel bad about what has happened with CDC and WHO. There is information and standardization that could have been shared but we (the USA) have a screwed up relationship with too many scientists and organizations now, IMO.

I'm afraid we are doomed to repeat history. Maybe we can still make 2 steps forward while taking one step back.

Honestly, this sounds harsh I know, but there are people out there who don't deserve the benefits of science given how hard they work to hinder it. The irritating part is they won't ever care or know about the people they make sick. They don't care about how much harder they are making things. I believe we could have met half way with better guidance and presentation of how we could balance our practices for working and protecting the public.

Thank you.

Especially this: "I feel bad about what has happened with CDC and WHO. There is information and standardization that could have been shared but we (the USA) have a screwed up relationship with too many scientists and organizations now, IMO."

It seems like with certain leaders it's been "shoot first ask questions later" after claiming victory.

Mission accomplished!

Ready....fire....aim!

Or in our case:
Fire....Fire...Fire. No need for Ready or Aim apparently in any order.

hahaha.R the order is so funny. And not. Cuz it's true. Oh dear!

Haha I just got that. I'm so slow sometimes. Been a long time since that sign went up hasn't it.

Done & Done,

Your posts are always so well-thought out and expressed superbly.

Our daughter who lives in Southern California was fortunate enough to be able to work from home; but she was assigned the awful task of having to lay off employees. One thousand were laid off. She knows them all and they are like family to her; especially those on her team.

While she was in the middle of doing this, it got to her mentally and physically. First, she broke down emotionally; so much so that she started to feel physically strange and thought that she was either having a stroke, or a brain tumor. Her aunt passed away from a brain tumor at a young age.

It was getting scary,but we were all face timing her, and she finally started to pull out of it. She is in constant communication with all of the employees, to answer questions and provide updates. Recently, a food drive and distribution was organized by management for the laid off employees.

As far as selfish people go, our son-in-law's brother's out-laws are as "Me First" as it gets. They are TBM. The mother is a real estate agent and the daughter has a small hair salon business.

Just before our daughter Tiffany went to New York, they made some real asinine comments on facebook.

The daughter posted "a shout out to the BANKERS who work around the clock. If you think hospitals are overrun right now, talk to a banker!!" When I read that, I wanted to drop kick her to the moon.
Her mother's comments were even worse. She thinks her "rights are being trampled on, and said that this is all a conspiracy, and that "Everyone has an expiration date anyway!"

Oh really. Let's haul your sorry a$$ on the next flight to any hot spot and check your expiration date!

Every time I hear that insipid line: "We're all in this together", I want to throw my shoe at the T.V.

Perhaps your daughter was applying for a loan?

Seriously, your post captures a lot of what we are collectively going through. It resonates.

Thank you for the expansion.

My second shoe at the TV is for the phrase "In these uncertain times . . ." Enough already, cuz, I happen to know what they are paying for those commercials and what else they could to with it.
Feels like when as missionaries we were told to look at the survivors in obituaries as golden contacts because they would have their hearts softened and b "prepared by the spirit to hear the truth." Now I need another pair of shoes.

We’re all in this together creates the same response from me. No, you are not in it with me, you still have a freaking job. My job, never coming back. I work in travel, I’m old enough to retire in 5 months, I’ll still be laid off....don’t just don’t.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2020 08:41PM by sbg.

In my TRULY IMPORTANT TO HUMANITY OPINION
THE WHOLE THING WAS A MASSIVE SCAM!!!
So jump on me! It won't change what I believe!!

The wind chimes are so beautiful as the air rushes through.

Desertrat1,

Please just look out for the rest of us.

Yes in so far as it is possible

Go to NYC. Ask the medics, the cops, the firefighters, the paramedics, the transit workers, reps from all walks of life. They have seen the gates of hell and passed through them in the service of others. They have risked their own lives, and some have given their lives, to care for strangers.

Ask families grieving for lost loved ones who, absent SARS-CoV-19, would still be here enjoying long weekends, the coming summer and family gatherings. It will take you a while to get through the next-of-kin of the 22,304 New Yorkers who are casualties of Covid. Then repeat the experience in all your other states.

Don't miss a stop at the White House where the virus has also visited. Despite what anybody wishes or prefers CV is a thing. Even there.

Ironic that on a heartfelt thread regarding difficulties dealing with the menace among us and people's real life day to day challenges you want to yet again be the contrarian, against all evidence.

You can't be convinced by seeing ICU cases, bodies and lung x-rays but you're all in for the book about an extraterrestrial god Annunaki.

You might want to fine tune your scam detector.

I found this useless shutdown somewhat relaxing. Maybe we should have another one next year.

The US was designed to be one big Petri dish. It’s functioning as designed, so what’s the problem?

"Gets to me. Is erring on the side of caution really that hard?"

erring for a couple of weeks...no.

Being "cautious" for months on end, while many including those you mention in your post, as they lose jobs, business, money...then food...there is a thing of too much caution.

We have to look at for them...and printing more checks doesn't do that. It turns us into Venezuela.

We will see in a couple of weeks after the current reopening how lethal and widespread the virus is. The question becomes how high a mortality rate the majority thinks is acceptable.

Most people living on a pay check will accept any amount of death that doesn't involve someone on whom, in some way or another, they rely.

Because in such an instance, it's just numbers. Look how well we did getting over WW II.

I definitely can sympathize about losing a regular paycheque, especially without warning. I'm in that same boat. From one day to the next, poof, my income totally dried up, no notice. Almost simultaneously, shortages of essentials occurred and food prices shot up. (That I am more ready to believe could be somewhat by design - I have definitely noticed what can only be described as price gouging in certain places. I saw a 12-pack of TP the other day priced at $19.99 - usual price around $10.00 - in my regular grocery shop while in another grocery around the corner it was only $6.99. That much taking advantage of people should be outlawed, especially as the first, more expensive store, reaches out and caters to elderly customers who are likely on limited income).

It seems, though, that a lot of people have missed the purpose of the entire approach - Slow. The. Spread. Try to balance out both medical and economic concerns to achieve the least loss possible, both financially and in terms of casualties.

Too, it's not just a question of people dying and some thinking oh well, your number's up, why is that my concern - it's the suffering before death occurs. Think of a time when you've been the sickest you've ever felt. Multiply that by a huge factor. Then hold your breath until you're bursting for air. That's just the beginning of how a person with CV-19 feels. If it was a quiet sweet death in a person's advanced years, well, that's how it goes and it comes to us all, hopefully as easy as possible. But it's the unnecessarily high casualty count and the untold and appalling suffering that is a major feature of the situation that likely not enough people stop to ponder. If you knew you could cause a person to suffer like that, would you not do everything you could to avoid passing along a contagion that is known to be extremely virulent - powerful enough to take out many strong, healthy, tough, young people as well as the vulnerable elderly and chronically ill among us?

I've said before that when I had the monster flu last year, I had NO CLUE it was possible to even feel that ill and I would likely do almost anything to avoid that type of experience ever again. I definitely feel my own mortality after that. And yet it was a walk in the park compared to how sick a COVID patient feels. To compound the misery, the shortage of equipment, at least in the early days, meant that not everybody who needed a ventilator could get it. (Not that being ventilated is a picnic either but most would choose it over the grim alternative). Imagine feeling like you're drowning and nobody can help you, not even when you're in a hospital.

The entire CV-19 response was a temporary fix to an overwhelming and exceptionally severe situation. Care for the casualties, plug all the loopholes, balance all the other urgent considerations. Take a pause until we can see what we're dealing with and how best to address it for the greatest good.

Another major factor on top of the acute medical situation has been that at first the scientists and physicians and other experts didn't know 100% what they were dealing with. That's the "novel" part of the "novel corona virus" that is COVID-19. So they put more caution into the pause. The lack of absolute knowledge continues. This is a virus that at first was thought to be respiratory. Then, step by step, it became more and more apparent that this virus attacks many body organs and systems. Experts were scrambling. They're still finding out more about it all the time, such as the serious effects it has on some children.

The entire approach has been to not only save as many lives as possible but to squelch the spread so as to avoid the complete calamity of a rogue virus loose throughout the entire world at the same time, without enough vital equipment and supplies to combat it and ending up with a much higher casualty count than would have occurred with mitigating measures in place.

Leaders have characterized CV-19 as combat and some use military language to describe their approach to dealing with it. "We're all warriors." "This is a war." "Front lines." "Attacks." "Fight." etc. Going with that then, would we send our troops into harm's way without sufficient equipment to keep them safe? Would we allow their supply chain to be under-resourced or absent? Would a general yell "Over the top!" to his troops blindly, willing to sacrifice them all to gain no ground? Of course, in a war, casualties are expected. But would a rational qualified commander give orders that put troops in harm's way without doing everything possible to minimize the body count? You would hope so.

Only completely oblivious or overly entitled people dismiss the economic woes associated with the medical calamity. With this thing, as the song says, Everybody Hurts. Regular folks, that is, at least. Some have lost cherished family members as well as income, double, triple, quadruple gut punches for all too many. Even more pain if they're left to think it didn't need to happen this way.

WWII has been mentioned here often, with comparisons made to the widespread upheaval, uncertainty, economic woes, loss of personal freedom, and unexpectedly high, and sudden, death counts. What I have heard most often in my life about that war is the community spirit that bolstered the "war effort". Neighbour looking out for neighbour. Sacrifices made for the greater good. Agreement on what the fight was all about. And a common vision for what a better future would look like.

Just a few of those approaches and a common sense of purpose would unite rather than divide us now.

(This is a general statement, not directed at you, EOD - my intended reply to your comment went in a direction I didn't expect).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2020 03:30PM by Nightingale.

I do some work for a hospital complex in Canada. I did the unit where they send people who are dying. The people I typed up did not have COVID, but the families are kept out of the hospitals there, too, EXCEPT when they saw that the patient was going to pass away soon, they allowed the families to come in to be there as the person died and to be able to say good-bye. I was touched. That is how it should be.

wearing masks for a few months now. They take their temperature. They have shields on lunch tables. No one has caught COVID. There are about 1000 people who work there. He has felt that most companies could open under these conditions. They also have social distancing.

We wear masks all the time. We are in a very limited case area. We were just changed to yellow today from moderate. Movie theaters are opening, but no new movies are out to view. Numbers haven't changed in terms of infecting others.

But we do choose to wear masks. I do go out, like I've said. I walk my dogs in several places. Few people. I go to the store a few times a week. I have my family to get things for and my 2 disabled brothers. Myself, I've had to go to the doctor twice and need cataract surgery BADLY. But I have to wait and that is fine with me.

I can say this, we don't always know what is causing another person to act like they do. I have a son-in-law almost here from Alaska. He drove alone. My daughter flies in tomorrow. Lost their jobs. I have many things going on in my life like making sure my 2 brothers are taken care of. Many people might think I go too often, but they don't know my story.

You just NEVER know why someone does what they do.

You missed the whole point. People are going back to their normal routines. Some with masks and some without. Some care about others and some have your attitude.

We are back to work now manufacture has been opened up --our whole company and we are having a blast even with all the safety precautions in place as we err on the side of decency.

"Some care about others."

That's the nutshell of the whole thing.

How’s that going to work if serological assays from hard-hit areas like LA County are showing an antibody rate of only 3%? They’re opening the economy because they are under intense pressure to do so, not because we’re ready. All this and 97% of the population is still vulnerable? I guess we’re all Swedes now.

If I had a manufacturing operation with some semblance of a budget, I would duct sterile air (created with HEPA filters and strong germicidal lamps) to workstations and put in exhaust vents to the outside or treat the exhaust if it has to stay in the building. Everybody gets their own air. A guy could make a living refitting facilities for COVID19.

The bars and restaurants are going to be packed when they open. Those places are where people go to talk. I’d be leery about trusting other people’s homemade masks to keep their infection out of the air.

It's been two months, and people are starting to get back to work.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- my maternal grandmother lost her first husband to the Spanish flu, and that resulted in *three years* of extreme hardship for her and her young children. There were no safety nets back in those days. Try losing your family's breadwinner(s) permanently, and you'll see what hardship really means.

There is more than one kind of economic loss.

works for Princess Cruises in Alaska at Denali. If you want to feel raw, let me tell you what she told me the other day.

Princess/Carnival/Royal Caribbean (all one company) have 10,000 workers on ships around the world. No country will allow them to get off. There are no cases of COVID on any of the ships. They have people from all over the world. They pull into the ports and they will not let the people from their country off.

The workers are despondent and one jumped off the ship and killed himself the other day.

It isn't just about those who get COVID. There are so many out there who are SUFFERING. I believe we've gone too far. If you really care about lives, what about these people? That's half of who have died in NY and they are getting NO HELP from anyone except their company and they aren't being paid.

I get really weary of hearing about ONLY those who catch the disease. I have been POOR, so poor I was behind 4 months on my mortgage. I lived in absolute FEAR. I fed my kids on $10 a week. I'VE BEEN POOR. I've said it before, I'd rather die than not be able to feed my children. This is much bigger than the illness. Sure, they need to wear masks, but sometimes people miss the whole point. There are other people suffering besides those who have COVID.

So 10,000 people suffering is comparable to 20,000 dying?

How about the 90,000 that have died nationally? What about the hundreds of thousands who would have died without the quarantine measures?

In short, how many human deaths should die to alleviate one person's suffering?

Just one - Jesus

Too bad Jesus didn't die for our suffering from disease instead of "sins."

Better yet, too bad he didn't die for God's cruel design which is indifferent to suffering.

How much money is a human life worth?
How many jobs is a human life worth?
How much suffering is worth a human life?

The irony of it all is that many people with pro-life views often align with the opposite of valuing life first in this situation.
If fetuses only were impacted by the virus or if the virus prevented pregnancy, maybe they would care more. Go figure.

On top of that, many people who are upset about their liberty to do whatever they want are fine with invasive rules about the liberty of women's reproductive rights. I guess the government is fine to take away liberty for items they agree with.

It's complicated and confusing to balance all the conflicting views.

If that was the idea it didn't work very well, did it.

The disclaimer is in the apocrypha.

Really. Are you kidding me? There are 10,000 they can SAVE easily and they aren't doing it. So we should only focus on those who get COVID and not those who are in other dire circumstances?

Are you kidding me? I've lost all respect for some people on this board. I can't even begin to imagine the desperation this person felt when he jumped off a cruise ship to his death.

So those who are committing suicide don't count. I wonder how many have committed suicide.

We should be saving ANYONE we can save. I'm in shock over the lack of caring for EVERYONE. Of course, I obviously don't care for those with COVID. I CARE ABOUT EVERYONE, NOT JUST THOSE THAT CUOMO SENT TO NURSING HOMES TO DIE WITH BODY BAGS. I'm in shock over the lack of compassion for EVERYONE, not just those with COVID. As I've said before, a few weeks ago we were driving home from Ogden and it said in Utah 134 people had died on Utah highways. Even now a few weeks later, we are barely halfway there in COVID deaths. Should we all stop driving. Should they outlaw cars?

Don't be so ridiculous that you would say to someone like me that I don't care. Why don't you ask people who know me if I care. I do more for people around me than most people ever do. You could ask my dad and mom if they were still alive. Ask my younger brother. Ask my neighbors. Ask my gay husband WHO LIVES WITH ME after he treated me like shit and broke me. I care about them all. My heart is broken over what is happening. But COVID patients ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES DYING.

Boy, I'll say it, I'M DONE with this place. DONE. Many of you are extremely narrow-minded. Raw? I'm done. The people who USED to be on this board had a heart. This board has become just a bunch of people trying to act out who is smarter than the other.

"This board has become just a bunch of people trying to act out who is smarter than the other."

Hell of an observation.

It can be rough when you feel for others deeply. There is an endless supply of suffering.

I understand what you were trying to say, Done & Done. We're dealing with a highly infectious disease and some self-centered jerks only want to ignore the problem and damn any inconvenience meant to keep the infection from spreading.

One of the other reasons I don't go out as much as I used to is because I try to follow safety guidelines and I keep seeing people ignore them, "La la la, I don't care, la la la." Combine these people with the NWGs, politicians declaring premature "victory," and the folks who don't care how many people would be infected and die as long as their precious economy lives, and you have the SNAFU that we're currently in.

The idea was to have a government that protects "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." I'd give up some of my pursuit of happiness (or convenience) if it means that others, including myself in ideal circumstances, get to have life.

And don't be afraid of calling me out when I do act like a dick.

ookami Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand what you were trying to say, Done &
> Done. We're dealing with a highly infectious
> disease and some self-centered jerks only want to
> ignore the problem and damn any inconvenience
> meant to keep the infection from spreading.
>
> One of the other reasons I don't go out as much as
> I used to is because I try to follow safety
> guidelines and I keep seeing people ignore them,
> "La la la, I don't care, la la la." Combine these
> people with the NWGs, politicians declaring
> premature "victory," and the folks who don't care
> how many people would be infected and die as long
> as their precious economy lives, and you have the
> SNAFU that we're currently in.
>
> The idea was to have a government that protects
> "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." I'd
> give up some of my pursuit of happiness (or
> convenience) if it means that others, including
> myself in ideal circumstances, get to have life.
>
> And don't be afraid of calling me out when I do
> act like a dick.
DON'T WORRY!!
ON THIS FORUM YOU WILL GET CALLED OUT WHEN NECESSARY!!!

Thank you ookami. You made me happy this morning. Well, is happy even possible nowadays? :)

At this time, I'd say close counts.

D&D, this is what I do when I just can't take any more. I am sure it is boring for most but there are always a few people watching and it runs 24/7 with nightcam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzl5MYQ4x8c

These jerks who consider themselves experts on politics, military affairs, economics, the climate, public health now think they can inspire us with their social virtue and "talent"

Love it Susan.

I miss the days when “Mormon Stupid” was the worst kind I had to deal with.

There is a lot going on in your post that hits a nerve in me as well. Allow me to do as you did and launch off tangentially.


I’m far more tolerant of the growing divide of opinion on Covid-19. It’s inevitable, given the confusing, contradictory and in some cases laughable messaging from our leaders (of all parties and multiple professions). Also, I’ve long understood the growing distrust many people have towards ‘Science’, and also think it is sadly too often warranted. And just as finger-wagging vote-shaming doesn’t work in politics, finger-wagging intellect/moral-shaming doesn’t work in getting people to go along with scientific opinion, either.

I’ve seen a sharp increase in Covid scepticism in people around me, including from people I would have never suspected. A niece, in health care administration and part of the team tasked with creating the processes for hospitals to meet the anticipated but non-arriving spike in ICU needs, has become almost cynical. I’ll refrain from repeating her reasons, but they weren’t incoherent. Some of what she shared was rather troubling, actually.

We have to accept that the items the following Italian politician articulated publicly and on the record are thought and believed by millions and that it is increasing:

https://twitter.com/TheSharpEdge1/status/1261396443903885312?s=20

Wagging our finger and calling people dumb or selfish or what you will will not suddenly dispel this point-of-view, if anything it emboldens. This can’t be hand-waved away with pejoratives.


So we delayed the virus’s spread, more or less. It’s temporary, but good.

Good or not, though, the health effects of the lock-down may prove worse than the virus. I have access to internal, unreported numbers (Police/health care) that point in that direction. This story isn’t being told, but it’s still a ‘fact on the ground’.

We might just find out that allowing naturally occurring herd immunity, in the end, is the only option, and that our precautions have largely been for nought, overall. We’ll see.

In the meantime, let me apologize on behalf of all us snotty-nosed runners dribbling drops of death 15 feet behind us. I understand why you believe the scientist who scared you with this idea, and I understand those who don’t believe this scientist. It’s fascinating observing the kinds of things we are sceptical about and not sceptical about. In the end, though, as always, there’s a place for good manners. I promise not to get my snot directly on you, should I be running past.

Human, constitutionally sceptical

I don't want physicians being put in a position of having to decide who gets a ventilator and who doesn't. Or who gets treatment and who doesn't. For me, it's basic courtesy to the health professionals who are working hard on our behalf, that we not put them in this position if we can help it.

Maybe if your niece went and volunteered in a NYC hospital, she would feel differently about the situation. There are definitely some areas where the virus is not very prevalent. It sounds like she is in one of those areas. When I watched the TV special last week that followed doctors and nurses around Monifiore Hospital in the Bronx, NY for a week, none of them thought the virus was a joke. They were behaving like they were in a MASH unit in a war zone. They had 70 patients die of Covid just in that one week. They had colleagues who got sick from it. They were HAPPY when they are able to close their overflow CCU unit -- happy and relieved.

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that the public health measures would stop the virus -- just that it would keep the numbers manageable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2020 07:04PM by summer.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want physicians being put in a position of
> having to decide who gets a ventilator and who
> doesn't. Or who gets treatment and who doesn't.
> For me, it's basic courtesy to the health
> professionals who are working hard on our behalf,
> that we not put them in this position if we can
> help it.

So get the virus in the population slowly so as to not overwhelm the Health Care System. Right.



> Maybe if your niece went and volunteered in a NYC
> hospital, she would feel differently about the
> situation. There are definitely some areas where
> the virus is not very prevalent. It sounds like
> she is in one of those areas. When I watched the
> TV special last week that followed doctors and
> nurses around Monifiore Hospital in the Bronx, NY
> for a week, none of them thought the virus was a
> joke. They were behaving like they were in a MASH
> unit in a war zone. They had 70 patients die of
> Covid just in that one week. They had colleagues
> who got sick from it. They were HAPPY when they
> are able to close their overflow CCU unit -- happy
> and relieved.

She is in one of the worst areas in N. America, the Cargill outbreak. But yes, maybe.



> I don't think that anyone ever claimed that the
> public health measures would stop the virus --
> just that it would keep the numbers manageable.

All kinds of claims. New Zealand for example claims zero now. The premise for achieving zero was administering a complete lockdown. But we knew back when we were watching this thing drift to us from China, so to speak, that Americans would never tolerate a complete lockdown. Spring Break proved it might be hard in some places to even administer any kind of lock-down.

But yes, we agree. Manage the spread of the virus evenly through time, now that the curve has flattened (in Canada, anyway). The re-open policies I have read seem to do just that. (Calgary Civil employees projected to be back in offices in Sept.)

Done and Done, no rancor here from me. My only reason for response was that I thought you had taken my comment the wrong way. Even that would be fair since this is a discussion board that is made better because of different viewpoints.

Your post above has been a good wake up call for me. For the past few days I admit to being in somewhat of a depressed state feeling sorry for myself over the restrictions current life has imposed on me that seem to have no end. Compared to many I have it good. I am at a point in life where staying home represents a lot of days anyway; my income, SS and such, is constant; and I have family nearby who have been unbelievable in their support. Despite this it is easy to dabble in self pity because simple things like going out for breakfast have been denied to me. And then I read your post and am reminded of the reality of what is going on in the real world around me.

I have been asked often what retirement is like and my best description is that it is like living in a world where a massive, noisy parade is taking place, but it is a couple of streets over from where I only hear the muffled sound. The problem comes, I think, when I sometimes start to believe that the parade of life is the distraction rather than the heart beat.

I don't know if this makes any sense but the reality is that my middle ground on the topic does not in any way mean I disagree with your viewpoint.

Thank you kentish. Very appreciated.

I'm not retired though past that age--and probably won't, but the older I get the more I would like the parade to move even more blocks away. I will have to remember your take on it and see it as the heart beat as you do. I may not be capable of that anymore. I dunno.

Those who think the economy should trump health and people should do what they want, cuz constitution, will be happy for us here today cuz we are working. However, I am happy to have the happy medium rather than that outlook: Plenty of work, all precautions in place, and may even need to hire more.

Just need to get used to it so I don't have to hide this gnawing sadness and uncertainty that comes from loss of control--the real enemy.

I don't think Hubby will ever retire, he is 71 now. He can't even take vacation and not check on work. It took about a week for work to get him set up on a computer here at home and it drove him nuts even though he could do a lot on his phone. There are parts of his job that are very physical and now he has guys that help with that and I put a hard OH HELL NO on him traveling right now. It is hard negotiating the stages and changes of life.

Being home is easy for me. I have my dogs, my koala cam, news/pics from my wombat group and enough sewing and craft supplies to last me for many years. I might actually finish something lol!