If you have left the mormon church, are you now completely free of its influence?

In what ways does it seem impossible to escape it?

If you are completely free of mormon control, how did you do it? What sacrifice is required to cleanse yourself from its touch? What effort or will must be exherted to free oneself from its grasp?

I need to know...

My growing up was mormony. I can never grow up any other way.

So one answer, even if it's just part of the total answer, to the question, "Where are you from?" is 'mormonism'.

I guess it's like our friends who named their son Nephi. He left the church at 18. Unless he legally changes his name, the mormon background will follow him.

I hated mormonism as a child so when I finally was allowed to go inactive at 13 years old, I was delighted. I returned for a mission and started BYU in my 20's, but after just a few years, I had read enough to know it was all made up, and again, I was delighted at not having to be mormon.

For me it was always a relief to ditch it.

The only lingering effect is between my TMB siblings and I. We get along great, always have, but I know I can't have a relationship with them unless its all filtered thru mormonism, and I really don't enjoy that, so I really don't have much to do with them.

My TBM relatives see everything through their mormon goggles. I try not to let it bother me, but it gets tiresome. I don't think they are trying to convince me. It just defines everything about them. It would be hard to avoid without avoiding them.

Does anyone who was on active duty in Vietnam or Afghanistan or Iraq for multiple years ever really escape completely?

How about a child whose entire childhood was in abusive home?

Hi LW,

If I follow you, great point.

Being involved with mormonism can be a trauma. I imagine it is something that is hard to ever completely put into the past.

To be totally fair, my DW has nothing but good memories of her life as a mormon. She would not want it any other way. She sincerely does not understand how I see it differently.

It is really only after I decided that mormoniam was a fraud and was harmful that I viewed it as a trauma. It is a trauma that follows me every day.

You do follow me.

I was making two slightly different posts. The first is that many of us experienced trauma to the point of experiencing PTSD as attested by the frequent stories of nightmares years or decades after missions. I don't think such a person, whether the shell shock was from a war or some other form of extreme personal pain, ever fully recover from that.

The other point was that we are who we are, the sum of our personal experiences. Some people view childhoods spent in Mormonism as largely positive, others consider them net negatives. But a person's character is largely formed in childhood and, for better or worse, we can never go back and do it differently.

My son, a former US Marine, was deployed multiple times to Afghanistan in heavy combat. He came home, utilized the GI bill to it's full extent, and is now heading to medical school. He's escaped...depends on the person.

And yet I'd bet there are elements of his character, for better and worse, that changed permanently.

That's my point: that humans cannot ever really escape their pasts. We are the sum of our experiences, so any lengthy and intense episode inevitably leaves its mark.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Does anyone who was on active duty in Vietnam or
> Afghanistan or Iraq for multiple years ever really
> escape completely?
================================

No.
Can still identify helicopters just from the sound: the type, their speed, whether heavily loaded - and a dread in the stomach forms.

But now I know what it is - and what it is not.

Good analogy.

Well, I exist because of Mormonism and polygamy.

I avoid some TBM family members because their Mormon-ness is tiring and we have little in common. But it was that way back when I considered myself a good Mormon.

Like a lot of folks here, I had nightmares about being a missionary again, but those have stopped. Now I have nightmares about work, even though I've been retired for seven years.

I'm left envying those who were wild and crazy in their teens and twenties instead of worrying about their eternal fate, like I did.

But day to day, I very rarely think about Mormonism. It's just not an active force in my life.

I am not sure if you used the term nightmare metaphorically, but I still have dreams of days gone by.

I drempt earlier this week that I walked into our ward building and my wife was drinking beer with the wife of our departed stake president. Bizarre...

I told my wife about it. We both had the best laugh...

I was fortunate to be the only Mormon in the family. When I was active, it was something that made me sad. After I left, I was grateful for that fact.

I would say that the Church doesn't affect me directly. I don't even feel like an ex-member anymore. I just feel like a non-member. If someone asked about any church affiliations that I might have, I'd probably just say, "No, I wasn't raised with religion," which is true. Now I kind of feel like the old me, before I ever got involved with religion.

But I'm affected in that I lost a friend that I'd known for over 30 years. Her kids all called me Auntie and there are six of them, so it's a big loss there.

The friend that I interact with the most is still very TBM, but her membership doesn't really affect me. We can spend a day together and just have a nice day. We don't talk about religion. We never seem to run out of things to talk about. But I'm always aware of her affiliation with the Church. I have to watch my language around her. She gets upset if I overdo it, so I keep myself in check. I talk to her every day, so it's worth respecting her feelings in that area. She respects me in my beliefs, so I can support her in her beliefs.

The friend I've had the longest association with - since we were in the same Grade 7 class - has just decided to rejoin the Church. I was a little shocked. I sure didn't see that one coming. But it's going to be something new that I'm going to have to deal with.

She's a rescuer. It's her nature. So I'm going to have to make it quite clear that I'm not in need of rescuing. I can't seem to talk to her without her bringing up religion. She can't seem to help it. I keep trying, but I don't know. We'll see.

I am reluctant to identify myself in term of something that I reject. That seems to give them power.

Yet, I will always be a disaffected mormon. Damn.

That's how it is with my two friends as well. The one who is going back even acknowledged that Joseph Smith was a fraud, which shocked me. I never thought I'd hear her say that. So I asked her why on earth she'd go back. She gave me the same answer as my TBM friend who still believes wholeheartedly in the Church.

They say that it's still a great place to be. I don't understand how a fraud is a great place, but what are ya gonna do? They feel that way, so whatever. I dont' get it. But whatever.

For years I played along, because the mormons seemed to be supporting, "family values."

However, I realized that saying that you love families is undermined by being associated with lies and fraud. How can good be promoted by bad?

In the end, I felt guilt for being part of a lie, even if the lie was well intentioned.

I am still slightly affected when driving past church buildings. It has gotten less over time. I used to flip them off and especially the cross on buildings or jesus statues. I was never a true believing mormon like say my family and others here. Never did the temple weirdness for example. When i first read the BoM i noticed the bible plagiarizing right away.and thought what the hell is this doing here and more importantly how did the bible get into a separate book on a different continent from a different timeline. I always wanted to get away and live a somewhat normal life like say my friends in school were allowed to. Getting away from a cult permanently is no easy task, i tried doing it without professional help around 18 or 19 but i failed miserably because i did not have a counselor and i did not know that it was a cult for sure at that point or what a cult was.

All i knew about cults was the ones that everyone dies with the leader in the end somehow(obvious to the eye from the outside ones) like jonestown for example not the ones that keep people alive(barely) and draw money out of you continually like mormonism and scientology.

i just coped with drugs that numbed me out to block out the bad memories in my twenties and my chronic pain after a car accident. The pain meds took care of both numbing my cult memories and abusive events alongside my chronic pain issues. They did not have the technology or knowledge back then that is in my body now like the nerve stimulator for example. and stop my pain issues.

Anyways, overcoming trauma especially connected to a religion or a brainwashing cult is not easy and i will not sugarcoat it at all. I can only speak for myself that it has been a very hard climb to this point and i have had a lot of help and i have complained a ton along the way. From the medical field to the counseling to this site for the most part to youtube meditations to the many books i have read both about how cults work and the methods they use to keep people in and totally dependant on them so any chance of escape is freaking impossible it seems(on purpose). Studied the BITE model that most cults follow in some way. Behavior control, Information control, Thought control, Emotional control. These are the 4 key areas on how to control a human being or a group of human beings in this keys.

Learning to trust anything outside of a cult is very hard and i still have trust issues with anyone or anything still but it has to be done. Like right now i am struggling with can i really trust that the government knows what the heck they are even doing with this lockdown calculation or not. Not sure honestly. All i know is that allowing other humans to do the thinking for me or trusting that other humans know what is best for me(especially humans in authority positions or patriarch positions) has ended in disaster for me every time and i end up barely alive after they are done Reiching their havoc for a long period of time. I have real problems with people in authority positions. I have not been totally cured of this and i admit it. Been forced to do a lot of sh#t in my life without question that i did not want to do and i ended up the one that was destroyed. I assume once i hit the five year mark i will be more normal or more human. Not sure. All their ideas and indoctrination and fear tactics and guilt and intimadation tactics will be off my shoulders by then completely. I am about at the 2 1/2 mark.

Sorry for all the writing. But it does take effort. One of the professionals i see said the mind always wants to go back to what it knows even it was pure abuse as it was. A lot more mental and emotional abuse then i ever gave credit. Way more. The physical stuff was just the easiest to remember. Anyways, the goal is to create a new post-cult self. The greatest success according to hassan are the people that combine the pre-cult self with the good parts of the cult self. Not really sure if i am doing it right. I think everyones healing path is quite different honestly.

No one has the same healing path towards their better selves or real selves that is dying to come out. It is scary to step into the unknown. Its almost like a toddler learning how to walk. Most people that come out of a cult can't even sit down and read one page of a book. The comprehension will not be there. The thinking part of the brain had been shut down for so long. Thats why if they read any facts about anything it does not sink in on any level. The logic part of the brain does not work anymore. Thats why any conversation with one of them goes nowhere. They have a pre-recorded tape response for every question you ask them.

At the beginning of my healing road i could not even read someones post if it was this long. It would not sink in. I kept thinking why can i not read like i even could in grade school? And then i read hassans book about 'combatting cult mind control' and he explained that even he could not read one paragraph from a book after he left the moonies and he was one of the main leaders in that operation. Basically being in a cult made him a complete idiot. I truly believe that cult adults are dumber than kids in elementary school. The free thinking part of their brain has been completely corroded away. They can't think outside the box basically. They don't question a d@mn thing. People may get mad at me that i question the governments actions but i just say 'remember the cult?' Sure the government is a less extreme example but still the same rules apply for them as they do a cult in the end. Neither operation is the most trustworthy and honorable thing that we have ever seen

Erm, Mormons don't use the cross on their buildings! :/

Was there a time when mormon churches displayed crosses?

I like the idea of creating a post-cult self.

Also, I still flip the middle finger when I pass mormon churches when no one is around. I would never want to be mean to the people. I feel like most mormons are victims at some level, too.

I wonder if their security cameras pick that up?

50+ years in TSSC has affected me in countless ways.

But I choose to focus in on the most positive thing all those years did for me — they helped me find my husband of 34 years. TSSC is how we met (at a Gold and Green ball), and even though I regret having our marriage ceremony in a small room with lots of mirrors, the commitment we made to our union that day has sustained us through both difficult and easy times.

That sounds like good advice. Thanks!

I'll participate in your informal survey.

Lowpriest Wrote:
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> If you have left the mormon church, are you now
> completely free of its influence?

No.

> In what ways does it seem impossible to escape
> it?

I'm married with children. I'm the black sheep of two of their units - first unit I was born into and the second I helped create.

> If you are completely free of mormon control, how
> did you do it?

I'm not.

> What sacrifice is required to
> cleanse yourself from its touch?

Are you really asking this? I left Utah. I didn't leave my family.

> What effort or
> will must be exherted to free oneself from its
> grasp?

You sacrifice everything and maybe you will be a little more free from its influence but if you were formed from its womb either from conversion or conception, it will always reside in you until the joy of forever forgetfulness embraces you with its cold grasp.

> I need to know...

That the church isn't true?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2020 08:22PM by Lowpriest.

I had my name removed from the Mormon church records in around 1992. The most difficult parts for me were/are to change my own beliefs which I knew in 1990 I had to do, regardless of what it might cost me. The biggest lies are easy to disown and not look back on. The subtleties take longer to root out and renounce. In some ways, you have to change who you are. That's okay. It's a wonderful journey. As you accept healthy things as the new reality, the burden that you carry around all of the time grows lighter.

I am free of the church's external influence on me. I don't care to who I say it, mormonism is a fraud. If they knock on my door, person knocking stands a good chance of losing their testimony by talking to me even though I will treat them with respect. But it just takes time to fix the internal damage. The mormon church I so detest is the one that existed thirty years ago, when they taught me that some races of people were cursed by god and that their dark skin color was a mark that god put on to them so that I would know who these cursed people were, to be able to discriminate against them. I never believed it. The mormon church that I know issued tacit threats to cut my throat open from ear to ear as a "penalty" if I ever revealed their secrets. I know that they don't teach these things anymore. But much of the underlying dishonesty base is still there in their religion. Since I left, I have not regained the full sense of social integration that I felt as an active member and probably never will, and that is okay. But my sense of self realization has never been as free and fully developed as it is now.

My mood about the church varies from one day to the next. Some days it bothers me, sometimes quite a bit. Some days I could care less or don't think about it at all. But I wouldn't show up here routinely if I went weeks without it entering my mind. The fact that my annoyance of the church returns tells me that there is some lesson that I haven't gotten yet. Growing pains would be there with or without the church. So you accept the pain which lessens over time anyway. Sometimes life gets so full of busyness and joy that you don't even think about it for a while. The pain lessens over time when you do think about it.

"The most difficult parts for me were/are to change my own beliefs which I knew in 1990 I had to do, regardless of what it might cost me."

This is my challenge. Sometimes I feel like I need to deal with the difficult things to get back to the real me.

I grew up in the church and gave it two years of my life. All of my extended family is Mormon going back generations. I live in Utah where 80% of the representatives are Mormon. There is really no separation of church and state. I can't buy alcohol at Trader Joe's. My Joe Biden signs that I place in my yard are torn down.

Yes, Mormonism affects my life Every day it affects my life.

Thanks for responding. I sincerely hope things work out for you. Your environment sounds oppressive, but I hope you can overcome it!

I left the Mormon Church the day I left my parents house at age 18, and I officially resigned when I was 25.


My family has been Mormon for generations. Both of my brothers and my parents remain active, as well as most of my cousins, so no, I haven't escaped its influence. I've never told any of them that I resigned, but I suspect my dad knows. The Church has a huge influence in their lives, and since I wish for them to remain in mine, it has a secondary influence on me.


So, I haven't completely escaped it, but I have learned to take control of my own life. "No" is a complete sentence. You don't have to justify any decisions that you make. Someone asked me recently why I'm a vegan, and my response was that one day I looked at the roast beef on my plate, and I thought, I don't especially like eating meat, so I'm just not going to do that anymore. My exit from the Mormon Church was very much the same. I thought, I don't like being a Mormon, so I'm just not going to do that anymore.


I'd say that learning to say "No" and not justifying any decision you make is the first step to cleansing yourself from Mormonism's grasp.

"So, I haven't completely escaped it, but I have learned to take control of my own life."

I am still working on controlling my own life. Thank you for lighting the way!

I have more anger towards those sick souls who refuse to accept reality. But I also exert loads of pity their way too. It is so sad that they enjoy being manipulated to apply judgement and cruelty to the ones who walked away. Cult behavior is so messed up. To think I was a part of it. Sigh.

Overall I am happier and at more peace controlling my own destiny. I just try to avoid the special messed up group from the tscc.

"Overall I am happier and at more peace controlling my own destiny."

That sounds great. Thanks for creating hope.

I affects me in that I cannot get free from it. I'm done with it in every way I can be, but because wife it TBM, I suffer through much of its BS. I'm too nice no freak out on her about the reasons it is all wrong and a business.

It would be easier for me if she was meaner, but she us a great person.

Mormonism has lessened in my life the more I have learned the value of boundaries.

You know, the luxuries that normal people have been able to enjoy for so long. Once you try it, you will see what I mean.

There is no need to allow people in who knock on your door at random times without any prior notice.

There is no need to be guilted into moving someone because of their inability to plan, etc etc

The ward list goes on...and on

Just start living the lap of luxury and be good to yourself!
Even you can start a real life today!

I hope I could start a real life, but I doubt it. My life is beyond that.

It's a struggle for all of us who have spent significant time in the cult. But for me, every year away brings new freedoms, new wonders. Just the other day I noticed that some important old ways of thinking were now wholly gone. I'll never fully escape fully, but things get better all the time.

I suspect it is the same for you, Lowpriest. You write with insight and empathy, and your ability to perceive the damage probably gives you an advantage relative to less introspective people.

So rather than thinking of it as a binary matter, I'd suggest looking for shades of gray. I'm confident you have already moved out of the darkest places and are moving rapidly towards the light.

I appreciate your kind words.

Honestly, I find myself wondering what will happen next. I am not sure that things are getting better. I imagine that they will get worse. That sounds negative, but...

It's not like I fear anything anymore. I don't worry so much about what could happen to me. I do have concern about my family.

So many things in the world seemed to be designed to set us against each other. Mormon vs. Non-Mormon, Liberal vs. Conservative, Mask vs. No-mask, US vs China, Black vs. White, BYU vs UT... You name it. My family is caught in all this controversy.

Part of me has always gone along to get along, but that seems wrong and unproductive now. On the other hand, picking a side and fighting with everyone around you seems like it will end up destroying everything.

For a man in my 50's I have no sense of direction. I only see a world without solutions and loads of contention. It's easy to pretend, but it does not help me sleep at night.

I come to this forum to speak my mind and to make observations about the crazy world we inhabit. The largest controversy for me is the damned mormon church, but I get the feeling that is my problem because it is trap that I stepped into when I was young. There are probably millions of people who stepped in other traps.

I think my real frustration is that the human race seems to have lost its collective mind.

Anyway, I think if I met almost anyone from this forum we could be friends. Maybe that is a start.

Only positively.

My visiting female "Messenger"(?) only stands at my door now-a-days, to give me something nice--as always--because of the C. virus, and my H.T. does like-wise, about two or three times a year, with some home-made goodie for me, made by his wife.

Also, my Stake President called me on my birthday (by my name, not by "sister") and asked me if I was OK, and if there was anything they could do for me. He also thanked me for all the good things I had done for others in the past.
----

When the fruit trees in my backyard are in season (an orange tree and a lemon tree), I share these with my church visitors, as well as my neighbors--and even to the person who delivers my mail.

As you can see, life is very good to me.

My only complaint this year is that no-one could give me See's candy, as the whole mall is closed. (Wow!)

Also, because I no longer work outside my home, I feel VERY sad for those who no longer have jobs.

It doesn't come up much in conversation these days but the fact that I graduated from BYU sort of haunts me.

Most people who don't know me well assume I graduated from the local university because I wear their gear and even have my email address through them. I don't correct anyone from thinking that.

I come to this website to find out what sneaky thing the profit and his entourage are up to so, yes, I'm still affected.

Cults (and not only religious) work by knocking out the foundation; by knocking us off our feet so we are unable to stand alone, unaided, confident. One is perpetually fearful; this is the whip.

So the remedy is to build a foundation upon which we might stand, on our own feet, without apology. It really is a making oneself whole; not trying to find another belief to substitute for one's own, another tribe to belong to.

Easiest way to start is to start with something physical. Start working out. Because of the "mind-body connection" (via the striatal complex) this changes one's mood, decreases anxiety/depression, increases confidence.

Next, take a break from the news cycle, limit it to a discrete corner. The stuff is toxic, designed to make one angry.

Do what you like to do. Give yourself permission to do things you actually want to do, regularly. These two things (off news, doing what like) gives one a little space to reflect on things, to consider -- this is how one learns to think for oneself, because I become aware of and interested in what I am thinking, not what someone tells me I should be thinking.

That's the beginnings of a foundation, and you go from there. Standing on one's own feet comes with a sense of being somehow impervious to all that is going on: yes I can see it, but there is no sense of being hazarded. Life goes on, yet it is somehow not so desperate, so serious.