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Posted by: Life is changing ( )
Date: June 18, 2020 11:26AM

How deep fear of feeling shame can people really have? Seriously?

I have known my family member for almost 30 years. He have always had this tendency to be very angry and childish during times of stress.

He is a person that are so afraid of being ridiculed that he hits first. He puts people down to feel better. He feels bad about it and show up with goods or food, especially candy and treats. He never says that he feels bad about it but he makes reparations. He just can not say he is sorry. If he is confronted about it he gaslights and tell people that they overreact.

Lately, the past two years, I have started to feel a bit of unease around him. Everybody in the family are not getting any younger and it is time to grow up. He have to grow up and stop emotionally abuse people and try to get away with it. If he needs a therapist he should get it. I am all for it but it will never happen because he will deny there is a problem.

How does a person think that just have to do all this crap? How much fear of feeling shame can a person feel?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 18, 2020 02:53PM

Your relative lacks coping skills. He knows this in some manner and that's why he tries to make amends. But the bottom line is that you and your family members do not deserve to be hit nor treated abusively.

You are correct that he needs professional help. This is beyond your ability to handle.

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Posted by: Uh huh! ( )
Date: June 18, 2020 04:25PM

I know people who have this issue. It goes a lot deeper than just lack of coping skills, although that is definitely part of it.

Three of the people who I've met who are bullies have a pushy nature and are ultimately only interested in themselves and their own agenda. But most of the time they try to bully only certain people who are their victims, people whom they think won't challenge them or try to fight back.

Generally, if people don't cater to their whims or desires, they belittle them and attack them in various ways. When they see that the people whom they've pushed around are hurt or upset, they bring treats around as if to make it all better. The ones who put up with their behavior and fall for the "gifts trick" eventually notice that there is no real behavior change, and the cycle continues.

The ones who don't put up with it become their enemy, whom they attack verbally and often behind their backs. The reason the bullies go on the attack is they literally don't understand how to have real relationships based on mutual caring and sharing, so they copy tactics they think might help, which only get them so far.

Feeling sorry for them or putting up with them doesn't stop it; setting clear boundaries can help but if they don't respect the boundaries, which is often if not usually the case, there is no other way to manage than to break off contact.

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: June 18, 2020 11:28PM

They cannot apologize because they do not have the emotional strength nor the maturity. They generally do not seek counseling because they would have to admit to themselves they are flawed. That is unimaginable for them to admit. You are beating your head against a brick wall if you think things will change.

They have to want to change and it doesn't sound likely in this case. Just take care of yourself.

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Posted by: Life is changing ( )
Date: June 22, 2020 10:04AM

Thank you for your feedback.

The likelihood that there will be any chance are close to zero. So I will take your advice and change the forms of the relationship.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: June 22, 2020 06:39PM

Don't forget, "forgiveness" contains the word "give".

*You* are the only person that decides whether to forgive or not; you can't owe forgiveness to anyone, that would be a business transaction.

Forgiveness means *they* owe *you*, and they must be totally aware of that fact. Many abusers, narcissists, and bullies don't really believe that. They will try to turn their guilt around on you to make you feel like you must forgive them.

You should always refuse to forgive such people until you honestly want to forgive them--but be ever-so-careful with these scoundrels. Like high pressure salesmen they will want you to sign the contract immediately by ginning up fake urgency.

Like your signature or your money, forgiveness is 100% yours. They can only request it. you can withhold it or give it away but it should be truly your decision.

My technique with people like that is to say "I hear what you're saying and I'll think about it. If I decide to forgive you I'll let you know."

Chances are they won't like being made to wait, because when they apologized and asked for forgiveness they were actually working their way toward something else.

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: June 22, 2020 11:50PM

Interesting take. I will have to remember this posting. Thought provoking.

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Posted by: Life is changing ( )
Date: June 23, 2020 04:07AM

There is a dynamic in the communication that is very skewed. What is the goal with it all? I sense that he try to equalize the situation. He have a skewed vision on how it can be solved. The problem is nothing is being equalized. All that is done is just that he tries to distract and shift the perspective for his own benefit. If people feel emotionally sick or get angry that is not a problem in his world. He just want to get away with it quick.

Things just getting worse. So there will be no change.

It is like living in a house getting more and more damaged by water leaks. All that is done is moving to another room instead of fixing the water leaks. We are running out of rooms, soon the whole house because all the moisture are making it rotten to the core. All the time we could use to stop this have been used instead to move around and blame the person who is feed up with it all.

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Posted by: Life is changing ( )
Date: June 23, 2020 04:08AM

The fake urgency is a distraction from the real urgencies.

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Posted by: Recovered Molly Mo ( )
Date: June 26, 2020 11:32AM

Sounds like you have an emotionally immature family member.
Since you are both adults and no one is forcing you to be together, you can opt-out.

If he approaches you on why you opt-out of social interactions explain very specifically which behaviors but a barrier between the two of you.

Other than that you have NO control over what a other person says, thinks or feels. You can control how you respond to it.
DO not waste your time or energy trying to figure out why he does not comprehend his actions.

If you are in a situation where you see something said or done that belittles another person-speak up calmly and directly.

Sometimes saying "If you can't say anything nice...."

Are the harsh words truly offensive, abusive or aggressive?
Is this person just socially awkward and mad at the world?

Respond to situations that need back up. If they do not, butt out and back up.

RMM

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