Keep yer crap god out of my life. Don't make decisions about my choice to have a child based on what you think your crap god wants. Don't make decisions about who I can marry based on what you think your crap god wants. Don't make decisions about where I can live, what I can eat, and what I can wear based on what you think your crap god wants.
And, hey. What you think your crap god wants is really what *you* want or you'd find a new crap god more aligned with your opinions.
A decent god would not only do something about poverty but also would realize that as god, they're eternal, which is kind of how the god thing is supposed to go.
If god exists, that's one sadistic fuck.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2020 06:37PM by Beth.
Lot's Wife Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Poverty is also caused by low taxation
Eisenhower loved high taxation but even he admitted "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
That is where most taxes really go. They take money off people who make it and it lines the pockets of government and the military.
Beth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm just trying to see what taxes have to do with > an omnipotent and omniscient god.
You want "freedom from religion", i.e. freedom from God. FFRF want it out of government, yet it is clear that government itself is the issue with or without God.
Remove God from the equation and you still have the poor with you.
Poverty exists because a) people can't make much money, b) their money keeps being taken off them so they can't save up, and c) poverty is subsidized by government.
The last one doesn't make sense on the face of it. People on welfare can lose money or housing when they get a job, because suddenly all that is taken away from them and they end i. The way welfare is set up creates dependency, and also doesn't help people get higher paying jobs. It also undermines small entrepreneurs.
Hi Beth. Yes, I get your question. I was just saying to bradley about welfare - I thought it sounded like he was criticizing recipients. It is easy to do unless one is in dire straits themselves or sees others who are.
Somewhat related is a situation here in Canada at present where the federal govt is giving $2000.00/month to anyone left out of work due to COVID-19 (for a four-month period of benefits but it may be extended). It's a "gift" not a loan - no need to worry about repayment. Manna from heaven, so to speak, for those suddenly left without an income due to the shutdowns of businesses caused by the virus. It's not a huge sum to try and live on but it certainly keeps the wolf from the door in the immediate future for those who need it. However, the rule is that if a person finds enough work to earn more than $1000.00/month they are no longer eligible for the $2000.00 from the feds. (So there is the allowance of an income of $3000.00/month but not a dime more). Well, a slight problem occurs. Of course people want the $2000.00 from the govt plus the $1000.00 they're allowed to earn from reduced employment, not only the meagre amount of $1000 + $1.00 that would erase their eligibility for the govt $2000.00. So let's see - you can get the fed's $2K + earn your own $1K OR you can earn your own $1001 and render yourself ineligible for the additional $2K because you went over the allowable $1K limit. Who would willingly opt for the lesser amount?
Critics are saying this govt program is a disincentive for folks to go back to work. Could be true enough in many cases. But there's a lot of pushback and resentment from the recipients as those against the program have a common and irritating tendency to proclaim that recipients are "sitting around at home collecting $2K for doing nothing".
Sorry - I took a long time to get to the point, which is that it's disheartening and insulting and maddening to hear the refrain "sitting around doing nothing, collecting handouts (etc)" when people got drop-kicked without warning due to the pandemic and most DO want to get back to work as before but had no choice but to take the govt assistance in the midst of an unprecedented worldwide event that wiped out work overnight and otherwise challenged the best of us on every front.
I see it as being the same with welfare - easy for some to complain about people needing assistance but the other side is that people are in genuine need and couldn't survive, literally, without some help. Very often through NO fault of their own. It's tough to live like that and then be criticized and misunderstood on top of it.
But yeah. Of course. Why does it happen? Sickness. Death. The Bastard COVID. Utter tragedy. What the hell is the point of it all?
Such are the questions that lead people to religion for answers. Like me - as a teen - finding the JWs - "The Truth" as they call their faith. The Truth that promises all the answers. Especially the part about Paradise Restored. Who wouldn't yearn for that? Still waiting... :/
They all have answers for why, why, why. Some more lucid than others. Not many all that satisfying. Or verifiable. Or coming to pass as far as we can tell.
So many questions.
Bugger all answers, as my father would say. (So this is just proxy swearing on my part). :)
near Vancouver. She went to college in Vancouver and has stayed in Canada pretty much since. She got a large inheritance from her grandfather and she bought some property on that island for several hundred thousand dollars.
Guess who is getting that $2000 a month? I think it is unethical of her to do that. She hasn't worked steadily in a long time. Her mother gives her money from her millions if she needs some.
It would be different if they looked at the actual financial situation of all those receiving the extra money.
..to slay your family members? The prince Arjuna's kingdom was usurped by his relatives, but he doesn't want to fight them because "they're family." Krishna urges him to battle, though.
You know this is an allegory, don't you? Arjuna is one's true self, and all the usurping relatives are one's habits and false identifications. The urge to fight them (hey, war metaphors were like sports metaphors--which are actually war metaphors--now) means to free oneself from their control--no matter how long you've lived with them & how they've brought you up.
What about those who believe that the bible is the word of god to be taken literally?
ETA: There are people who prefer a literal reading. They’d rather believe that each word came from god’s mouth as intended. I find that choice to be disturbing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2020 10:56PM by Beth.
Jesus was probably speaking metaphorically when he spoke of the sword, for he objected when his disciples took up weapons in the Garden of Gethsemane.
But I don't think there is reason to doubt his willingness to rend families, for his call was to leave everything and "come follow me." Given the strength of Judaism and the sedentary responsibilities inherent in farming and basic trades, the documented gathering a band of itinerant followers cannot plausibly be read as compatible with traditional family structure.
And that, I believe, was Heartless's point: in that regard Modern Mormonism is consistent with Jesus's teachings and practices.
I was raised Catholic. "For ye have the poor always with you" is to me, simply a statement of fact, perhaps mixed with a certain degree of world-weariness. One of the positives of the Catholic church is that it does a great deal of charity work with an emphasis on helping the poor. But the Catholic church does not expect the problem of poverty to ever go away.
Again, context is important. This quote about the poor happened the day before his crucifixion, hence the reference in the passage to it being an anointing for his burial. It is not an injunction against the poor but it is a direct reference to Deuteronomy 15:11 "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
Tevai can perhaps clarify more fully but OT scripture gives numerous injunctions on taking care of the poor, including the official cancelling of debt at intervals and crops being sown especially for consumption by the poor.
There is also an admonition that when when reaping the harvest, you should not do so meticulously lest there are no gleanings left for the poor. I believe that was a general rule as well as one regarding particular plots although I don't remember the latter.
Thus Ruth the Moabite was gleaning in Boaz's fields when Cupid impaled them.
I was told recently that i chose my traumas and being born in a cult and all that horrible stuff i went through on purpose before i was born and i was like why would i do that to myself? Crazy thing i actually believed the person a little bit. It explains why it seemed that there was no help or any God that was going to defend me or help me out. I was not helped on purpose for most of my life because i had to learn certain things the hard way i guess(brutallity of being born and raised in a cult to shitty parents including a narcissist as a father or something like that) a false environment from the get go. Pretty messed up huh that i may have chosen that for my soul.
You didn’t choose it, Sweetheart. When I was in my early 20s, someone told me that I chose my abusive parents. In a way, I wanted to believe it. I don’t know why. At that age, I didn’t know how bad things had been. When I was about 25, I met someone who was never hit by his parents. I didn’t know that there are people who were raised without physical violence.
Trust me; we don’t choose them. We don’t. For someone to tell a victim that they chose to be victimized is twisted, ugly, wrong, and adds another layer of abuse.
You didn’t choose it, Adam.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2020 11:20AM by Beth.
I see. It never really clicked in my brain that physical abuse was odd to receive from adults like parents or a church leader was wrong until i was in my 30's. It took people OUTSIDE my family and that "religion" to make me realize this was an abnormal upbringing and these people should have gone to jail for what they did to me. But i can not dwell on feeling like i got jipped in life. I did learn some things and still am learning about cults and narcissists that use religion and cults as a control mechanism and for cover. Mainly learning about narcissist personality disorder lately because my father has this disorder and i know how dangerous it is. I was targeted because i could take all the punishment and anger dished out without going down or dying. Empaths and narcissists attract so i have to be careful throughout life. I have a guy on youtube that has been a really good coach and knows his stuff when it comes to narcissists. He is a warrior like myself but is definitely more healed and happier than i at the moment. If i can be as happy as that guy then i would be satisfied i think.
Being pissed at god was just wearing me out so if i think i chose this road than it makes it easier i guess. Maybe.
I have to get out of the self-pity mindset as well which i admit is still a struggle for me. I am realizing that permanent no contact is the only way to go and breaking the trauma bond that my father created. Breaking a trauma bond is not as easy as just getting physically far away. Its harder than it sounds. Its like a crazy emotional and psychological thing that has been very difficult to figure out how to break permanently.
When you realize what has happened to you, when you realize people whose one job, their One Job, was to protect you and they did the absolute opposite, that's a terrible thing to contemplate. You don't want to contemplate it because it's so abhorrent. So, yeah. As you try to live your life and try to unlearn that behavior, there will be times when you will be triggered right back to the place and time when you realized that these people whose ONE JOB was to take care of you and who literally held your life in their hands intentionally hurt you.
It's not self-pity. It's more along the lines of, "WTF WERE THEY THINKING? These people *love* me? No. They did not. But I *had* to love them and live with them and try to make sense of something that I suspected was very. very wrong, but I didn't have another experience to compare it to."
I'm not OCD, but I did create rituals and checklists that I hoped would prevent a beating when my mother came home from work. She terrorized me. I never knew which mom was coming home from work, so I made sure that the house was clean, the TV wasn't warm (she caught me in a lie by putting her hand on the TV), there were no dishes in the sink. There was milk for her coffee. (God forbid there wasn't milk for her coffee.) I had to make sure that there weren't any sticky places on the kitchen floor where something might have spilled. Once there was a hair in the sink. BAM.
I accumulated and compiled a mental list of all of the things I did that resulted in a beating hoping that if I could take those away from her and try to anticipate what she'd want next, I might be safe.
ETA: What made matters worse was that my mother was charming and beautiful. No one believed that she could do the things she did. When I was an adult, and I told people what happened, they didn't believe me. I'm sure they wouldn't have believed me when I was a kid. Believing me would alter their view of my mother. How they saw my mother was more important than what happened to me.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2020 05:58PM by Beth.
>"When I was an adult, and I told people what happened, they didn't believe me. I'm sure they wouldn't have believed me when I was a kid. Believing me would alter their view of my mother. How they saw my mother was more important than what happened to me."
It can be difficult for people to visualize or especially to feel another person's pain unless they look beyond their own experiences and feelings. Many have a tendency to assume that we are all having the same life experiences. It's easy to do.
A recent general example is the revved up discussions around living while black, in both our countries, and living while indigenous (First Nations) in my country (Canada). It's all too easy for people like me (white) to assume everybody is living the great life here in a beautiful wonderful country and if you're not, what's wrong with you kind of attitude. Because it's not *our* experience we don't think about, or know about, or can't imagine the world through somebody else's eyes, experiences, lives.
I can understand that as I'm guilty of it myself in some ways (such as thinking for too long that everything's pretty fine around here) and because I know that many people aren't all that introspective or aware of things that are not all that evident to them or even completely invisible.
That doesn't mean it's OK, just that it's a reality.
A recent example leaps to mind: There are amazing areas of natural beauty and wonder and history here, several of which are in aboriginal territory where there is some limited tourism (i.e. Haida Gwaii in the Queen Charlotte Islands here in B.C.) Haida Gwaii is billed as a national park reserve with remote islands and temperate rainforest, with trails, beaches and ancient totem poles, amidst other "attractions". Who wouldn't want to visit. But in the Pandemic Times aboriginal leaders are saying Tourists Not Welcome. When they've received a bit of pushback from wannabe visitors they get more blunt. Such as saying, in effect, we don't want potential virus-carriers on our lands (includes waters) - we still remember your previous epidemics that decimated our peoples. It can be shocking to hear and feel such sentiment yet indigenous leaders are just looking out for their people and many non-indigenous folks don't get the picture until it's in their face - that many of the remote indigenous communities are highly vulnerable, with little to no immunity (especially to the current pandemic where immunity is non-existent altogether) and survival comes first.
It is something you may not think about or be aware of until you hear the blunt message and then you think oh yeah, of course. That applies broadly - I think partly as humans in general tend to be selfish at least in the way of being self-absorbed to varying extents. I generally give people a bit of a pass in that life is challenging for most and it's hard to think of others and muse about their experiences if we're facing our own challenges, which most of us do as we travel our various paths.
So. That's why. In my limited and humble opinion.
Then again, some people are selfish as hell and that explains everything you need to know about them.
Your mother sounds like my father. I was scared sh#tless before he came home from work for the same type of reasons. And yes my mother was bad in her own way but i was not quite as terrorized by her like my father terrorized me. This is why i am studying his bizarre personality disorder. Being around him was some scary sh#t. Like if i left his precious religion i did feel he would have killed me. But same thing was he was charming as hell to everyone else. NO ONE would have believed me if i talked or at least that is how i felt. A well known person in his community and in the religion. I felt i was in an absolute unwinnable position. Cornered if will. My mind still can not make sense of it all. Decades of this and i was still the one who crashed and burned for their actions. Backwards sh#t. They made me the bad guy to make them look like the perfect and flawless good guys and the entire family including extended family believed it. It was backwards sh#t. And i just pretty much shut my mouth about everything and do avoidance behaviors like not being home or playing video games and tuning everyone out like i am an empty vessel. Crazy what my mind did to survive. I had a bitterness toward life and god for all of this for a long time but i am not quite as angry as before. I refused to live life for real even after i was physically away from these toxic people because i was so pissed at god. I was just like screw this life. But as i have walked this road i am starting to see that maybe the guy from the new testament is the real deal and i was put through hell on purpose to teach me some hard lessons. Despite my view on most of the bible being made up and all religions false. I have to admit i have been helped by something or someone that has been through some serious hell like i have been through. All i can think is the jesus story. I did not get this far on my own i am pretty sure although i have tried to the best of my abilities to get somewhere. I've been a no count most of my life in every humans eyes yet the universe knows and thinks i am more than a no count human just to be discarded and ridiculed by all for some reason. Not sure what to think really.
The first person to believe my story was a psychologist that evaluated me a few years back. I mentioned nothing of being abused during the one hour session but by the end of the session she could tell i was abused as a child plus religiousity as in cult indoctrination or brainwashing had taken place as well. First person to believe me and i did not even mention being abused. Crazy adam not telling a lie? Nope. A lot went down. A lot. I get new memories all the time that i have completely blocked out. A lot of my life had been blacked out in my mind. To painful to revisit i guess.