A friend has said there is a difference that you must demand both or you will still bwe counted in their 'census' membership.
I will be happy when that number begines to decline, but I think the cooking of the numbers will prevent that.
Are dead members removed? My uncle who is a Temple Pres said no. EX-Comm's? Id be supprized. Resigned? NO, they are classified as 'Resigned members' or so im told.
in the 16 million +, is Joe Smith still member numero uno?
I’m pretty sure that no matter what you do, you’ll still be counted in the fictional 16 million total.
If you die, it depends. If you’re active, they’ll (reluctantly, I assume) no longer count you. If they have lost track of you (which for many countries is the majority of the members) you’ll be counted until 110 years after your birthdate.
The 16 million includes millions who don’t consider themselves Mormons, or are dead.
By "name removal," I presume you mean that you're wiped off the books entirely, as if you were never on the rolls in the first place.
My understanding is that name removal, in that sense, does not and will not happen. The church is not legally bound to do that. The best you can do is resign; your name then gets moved over to a different file or database. It will never fully disappear whether you demand it or not.
In Europe there is a law that compels the church to wipe the names, but *personally* I doubt the efficacy of that law, since (a) the master databases would certainly be maintained in Utah, out of Europe's reach, and (b) you can't prove a negative.
"Name Removal", as LDS Inc uses it, is a euphemism for terminating your membership. In that that euphemistic sense, they do name removal, which is to say, they recognize that you are no longer a member, and their records reflect that.
In the literal meaning, no, they don't literally remove your name. That's why it's called a euphemism, which is calling something other than what it actually is. It is deliberately misleading. That's the whole point of euphemisms.
The difference is spelling. Period. The exact same action is taken by LDS Inc.
They refuse to use the term resignation, because you don't ask to resign. You resign. You give the order, and they have to comply. They hate that.
They insist on calling it name removal, because it makes it appear like they are in charge of the process. You ask for name removal, and they grant your request. That of course is misleading bull****. They have no choice. They must agree to your resignation. Whatever you or they call it, it gets processed as a resignation.
From what I've learned here, they "remove" your name from one data base and place it into another. You are never truly removed entirely from their records. Sort of like going from the active file to the pending (further action) file. They will eventually move you to the deceased file and have you re-baptized making you a full fledged member again. That's why I like to call it a pending file.
Resigning suggests to most people outside of Mormonism that you have chosen to completely detach yourself from the organization. In Mormonism there is no such thing as completely leaving. They represent God on earth so they decide your status for you. And they decide what terminology is used. You are not allowed to forget who is truly in control of your life.
Dave the Atheist Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Either way your name is not removed.
The church has two sets of records. One set is present members of the church. The other set is FORMER members of the church. When you resign, your name is removed from the active list. They (like magazine publishers and other legitimate enterprises) keep a record of former members, in case the now-non-member ever wants to come back, so that they get fast-track treatment.
I am certain that when the church announces the number of members, they do not include former members or members that they know are deceased or dead people who had their ordinances done posthumously (contrary to many assertions by posters here over the years).
You can easily check to make sure you are not on the "present members" list by telephoning church headquarters, membership records department, and ask. You will have to give your name and date of birth.
I have done this, and was told that I am NOT a member. The very nice clerk then checked the other list and gave me the date that my name was removed as an active member.
What more do you want?
Don't be like the exmormon I used to know very well who had resigned, and then complained to his mother's ward clerk that the ward members list showed that she had no children.
Some people want their cake and eat it, too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2020 10:11PM by RPackham.