Have no data just some life experience from my small context where I live in the world. So this is just my opinion.
People do not mellow or grow humble around here, most people just stagnate or let their defense mechanisms expand. They are interpersonally impossible, cranky, self-serving, short-sighted, endlessly conflict-seeking. It just get worse and worse. No end in sight.
Some days ago I saw a video on youtube, an old man told the viewers that you must study and read all your life because one day you do not want to find yourself a porch somewhere without knowing where you are, who you are or what is happening around you in society. Very true words.
That is what is happening around here. They are completely clueless. When I grew up here I thought people would become decent and humble like my grandparents but they do not. There is not even possible to compare.
I saw and experienced this contrast when I moved to another town to work for some months in a new industry. As soon as I came back home it was like hitting a wall.
20 years ago it was nothing like this around here. It is brutal to see this process. I hope I will be able to move out of here in the future.
Older person here. Not a goal of mine to be mellow and never a goal to be humble. Humble? Heard enough of that as a goal from the Mormons, from the G.A.s. Emphasizing humility is a control tactic. Humble is code for malleable.
Stubborn? Nope. Done with piddly ass bull is all. Lived too long to put up with other people's unimportant minutiae and personal agendas. Don't like most people ---but for good reasons. Not just cause I got old.
Know a lot of elderly who are still the bread winners and taking care of the young messes. (Not saying ALL are messes--that would be incorrect.) I currently work a 65 hour week in my seventies with a lot of wonderful wonderful young people. Very reciprocal work environment. No piddly bull.
I ask one thing of a person which is what I ask of myself. Keep getting better. Never Level Off--- is my motto. That's only good for those flying machines.
You find the right older people they will fascinate the hell out of you and you won't be able to keep up. Otherwise you found the wrong old people--- like the messes who aged, and like a big percentage of Mormons. Like my family where Mormon is number one and it doesn't even matter what is number two.
The More-so. Yes. I could have a tendency to be like I was when I was younger and have to fight it. I am winning I think. Which means I am more willing to be outspoken and not just go a long to get along as I was taught to do as a Mormon and as my natural personality lent itself to being.
I was the worst at trying to be what others thought I should be. I would rather come off old and ornery and stubborn than go back to that.
It is a constant battle though because of the "more-so."
bitch when you cross me. Otherwise, I must be okay as strangers always stop me in stores to ask me which comforter they should buy or tell me their life story. I'm 63. I work 2 jobs, I clean my house and my boyfriend's house, I enable my whole damn family (siblings). Oddly enough, the 2 disabled brothers are the ones who don't call me for support all the time.
I've had some really horrible things happen to me in the past few months that have and will change my life for the rest of it and I still get up in the morning and do what is required of me.
My dogs keep me happy, at peace. Maybe these old people you talk of need a dog, a companion.
If you aren't old, give it time. You will be. When your body starts falling apart and every move hurts.
My dad was a farmer and a school teacher. He worked harder than anyone I know. My one disabled brother, who lived with hem all his life, was worried about my parents dying and my mom died first and 2 months later my dad died. My brother kept telling my dad that if he'd get up and do more, he wouldn't die. My dad was upset by that and I told him, "If there is anyone I know who would get up and do everything they could it is you. You aren't laying there to be lazy." He was on pain pills that were strong enough he wouldn't remember I had visited him. He had prostate cancer, Parkinson's disease, heart disease, his knees needed replacing and they wouldn't touch him. He refused to use walker, but could barely walk. He'd get in his pickup every day and drive to the farm and sit and look at it, enjoy it. His greatest love. I just learned recently that it was a homesteaded farm by my great great grandfather. We had to sell it. Broke our hearts.
So wait until you get old. I type for a living. My hands hurt so bad I can barely bend some of them. They are on fire half the time. And I still type. You have a lot of learning to do.
Court reporter here. Sometimes I feel like you are my secret sister.
I am 67 years old. I work all the time. My hands hurt something fierce. I've been rubbing them with various ointments. Comfrey seems to help, but maybe something else would help even better. Bathe them in water with lots of epsom salts.
Just came across a fascinating bio, George Watts, first English convert who taught himself stenography. He is the reason the JoD exists. He also invented the Deseret Alphabet.
He eventually left the Church, which wasn't easy to do back then, especially when you have six wives and god knows how many children. Anyway, when I finish the book, I will write a short review and post it here.
Anyway, I always read your posts, and always enjoy your stories.
Every citizen in any society must uphold the credibility and dignity of their citizenship by practicing decent, honest, and civil communication standards. It is of great importance that everyone is aware of the risks of spreading erroneous information or creating interpersonal unease. Being rude and short-sighted have consequences in that matter. It is hard to be fair and balanced if strong emotions and untempered behaviour give colour to the base-levels of communication.
I understand the frustration that many carry in life. But during my transition to a new life I felt most safe with people that followed some civilized behaviour code.
I do think in many cases we become caricatures of ourselves as we age.
I have more confidence now. I don't feel the need to suffer fools anymore. I am comfortable with who I am and would rather be alone than in a group. I mostly avoid known irritant people who would waste my time or make me cranky. I'm mostly kind and patient with anyone I randomly encounter IRL. Life is too short to hang around with people who take emotionally and never give. I only have so much energy and so much time.
Maybe that is being stubborn but I don't think it is unkind.
One of the few stories I ever heard in Mormondom that sort of made sense was about a man who moved to a new neighborhood. Shortly after moving in, he saw a neighbor out working in his yard. The new move in walked over to the neighbor and asked, "What are the people like around here?" The neighbor replied, "What were the people like where you moved from?" Newbie answered, "Well most of them were onery, unfriendly & would hardly speak to me. " The neighbor replied, "Well, you'll likely find they're like that here too."
+Hobby: "Some days ago I saw a video on youtube, an old man told the viewers that you must study and read all your life because one day you do not want to find yourself a porch somewhere without knowing where you are, who you are or what is happening around you in society. Very true words."
==I agree with that. It is the best attitude to have.
"That is what is happening around here. They are completely clueless. When I grew up here I thought people would become decent and humble like my grandparents but they do not. There is not even possible to compare."
==Clueless about what? What is going on? Can you give me an example?
You can't possibly have any idea of how they treat seniors. I've seen a lot of senior discrimination and they dismiss us as if we aren't there. Go in a store to buy my daughter something and they act as though "what are YOU doing in here?"
I'd say the younger people have a much more difficult time being kind than we old people do.
Vanity and avarice grow stronger with us. As for kindness, it depends on whether age depresses you or not. It is easier to be kind when you aren't hurting deep inside regardless of the hurting of an aging body.
I agree with Kathleen's "more so" theory. I also think there are aspects of growing old that are both daunting and disappointing. Many older folks are faced with the realization that some dreams will never be realized. None of us have perfect circumstances, but for many of the elderly and for many of those approaching bona fide old age, finances, health, or both are grim and may only get worse. We're all dealing with our own mortality, but it's in the nearer future for most of them than it is for most of us. As for stubbornness, practice makes perfect. They've been thinking and doing things in a particular manner for a long time, and they're convinced it's the right way.
Some of the older folks I know in my personal life and deal with in my professional life manage to present a cheerful outlook in spite of it all, and in situations certainly no better than what would be considered average for their ages. Others obviously don't pull it off. If I live to an old age, I hope I can maintain a mostly positive demeanor, and I'll give it my best shot, but I have no clue as to what the future holds. I think I get it where those who are a little dour in old age are concerned.
One of my best friends who used to call me everyday crying about her problems, told me I'm not as nice as I used to be when I finally started taking care of my mental health and told her to stop calling me.
I don't think I've become more unkind, just less tolerant of toxic people in my life. If toxic people think I'm unkind because I want them to stay away from me, I'm glad.
There was an old 70s movie called "The Swamp Thing." Basically this guy who was smart, kind, funny, intelligent, falls into a swamp and turns into a monstery-looking thing. But despite his looks, he comes out as a monster who is kind of like a superman character--superhuman strength, helpful, adored by everyone.
The other main character is this little dweeb of a guy who tries to figure out the secret of the Swamp Thing and finally finds out where he got his superhuman abilities. He figures if he just gets some water from the swamp and drinks it, he can have the superhuman strength and intelligence without looking like a monster. He takes his dip from the swamp and turns into a weasel.
The secret to the swamp was that it just made them into more of what they already were. The superhero always had those personality traits and the weasely guy was always a despicable weasel. I look at old age the same way. I'm a senior myself so I guess I'm ratting out my own. But I've seen old people who were always kind and just became more that way as they aged. Even if they got dementia, they didn't think ill of others, were kind and appreciative. This was my maternal grandmother.
And I've seen people who were always somewhat self-centered, controlling, and stubborn and who become downright mean and nasty as they age. My father was that way, even though he tried in his own way to be somewhat kind most of his life, he sure got nasty toward the end. My grandmother was the swamp thing and my father was the weasel.
Who will we be? I guess it will be those left behind who will decide what we took from the swamp. I do think we can make a cognizant effort to steer our destiny one way or the other.
Old people accumulate. Usually it’s an accumulation of aggravations because, let’s face it, life ain’t easy and bad experiences takes a toll on you. With any luck there were a few positive experiences to soften the tough exterior that was grown over many years.
Most old people give up trying to mask the aches and pains of life and tell it like it is. Too much effort is required putting on a happy face. Besides they’re achy and have no stamina...
A lot of ex-Mormons feel uncomfortable when their views are challenged. Getting out in the real world can bring some nasty realizations in that regard--particularly if one denigrates the best science there is on things like face masks, for there such views pose a threat to the credulous.
There maybe some truth to this that people become unkind as they age. But from my experience what I've seen is that people become more horny as they age. I've had some relatives (in their 80s) who really enjoyed this time in their life, slapping womans behinds, lots of flirty talk at the store with the pretty 20 year old girls. Dimples and winks. And the females I've known in this age group have a sudden interest in porn movies as well.
This is just my experience take it for what it's worth :)
The true question from your post is why you think anyone should be "humble" and just what you think that is. How is your own "humble program" going? What needs do you have that are not being met by those that you consider older? What "humble service" are you doing for them? Maybe get off your pity pot, humble yourself, and be of service to others no matter what their age.
You're hanging out with the wrong kind of folks. Not age-wise, but not nice folks. Why would you do that?
I see my husband, who is in his 70s, his body is breaking down, he has COPD, heart failure and defib. He's frustrated. It does sometimes make him more curt than he used to be, and we all see it. But, he's working on it. It is up to us to understand what he is going through and be patient with him.
Me? I'm in my 50s, and am dying of metastatic bone-cancer. I'm in pain a lot. But, I'm still working from home. I have a policy of allowing myself one complaint a day. And, I announce it. "This is my one complaint today!" and then I say it. I have found that I'm more understanding and gentle with people than I used to be. I know that they are going through things that I don't know about.
It really depends on the person.
And, no, I wouldn't say that all millennials are shits. My nephew, who lives with us is a millennial. He is very kind and helpful. He would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it. My step-daughter (who I helped raise) is the same way. But, she lives across the continent. My step-son is a very thoughtless person. He was raised by a different mother and was spoiled and coddled. I really think that a lot of the attitude of some millennials are because they simply weren't raised right. So, I put a lot of the fault on the parents that raised the little shits. Hopefully, the millennials will do a better job at raising the next generation than we did.
When I was younger, I was a "bow your head and say yes" person. In 2015, I woke up and resigned from TSCC. The way I've changed is that I know BS when I hear it or see it and I don't tolerate it the way I used to before that time.
I'm an only child, so I grew up associating with older people and I enjoyed listening to them and their stories.
IMO, you're spot on, Heidi: not all millennials are self-centered and entitled. The same way that not all old folks are mean and stubborn. There's good and bad in everyone.
My hubby and I are very fortunate that our "kids" are wonderful people that think of other's needs and we really enjoy associating with them. They all have a lot more wisdom than us, even though we've had more life experience than they have had.
I wake up relieved and glad that I have another day to enjoy both big and little things in life.