I grew up in 50 and 60,s. We were taught suicide was a terrible thing. I had several of my friends commit suicide but always felt they were okay but church people around me said “no church teaches that this is a major sin.” This week I read somewhere that suicide is okay. It will all work out and these people are not committing a sin. So the question becomes is or has the church been lead by prophets or just men who think a certain way and that is the way it is. I am getting the impression I should not be following the prophet as what he says could be changed in the future too.

THe Lord cant make up his mind.

The Lord is Guiding his church through these new and ever changing ages of information. You cant expect him to be consistant.

God is a small naughty child hiding his creation quietly in a closet. This is why we are not supposed to pray to heavenly mother, she might find out and shut the whole thing down.

And I will still go to church every week.

We had a rather spirited and near violent discussion about this in priesthood meeting back in the late 60s or maybe early 70s.

The first part was about what is suicide?

If a person with a terminal illness refuses additional treatment is the suicide. Likewise refusing a dangerous operation with a low chance of success. (Current church teaching is that medical treatment is a personal choice.)

That devolved into making choices for an elderly relative, spouse or child and if withholding treatment was murder.

Somehow we got to mercy killing. Things were heated at this point. Some said yes, others weren't so sure. The scene in the movie Blue Max came up where the hero kills his friend who is trapped under a burning airplane.

It nearly came to blows when a veteran said in combat if a buddy was beyond saving they'd combine morphine shots and help him along with as little pain as possible.

Finally it came full circle that a person could choose to end their life if it was too painful.

We settled on a version of the scripture in D&C that basically says you can't commit adultery with a person you're married to so.... You can't commit murder/suicide if a person is going to die no matter what you do.

Fun time before correlation!

The anti-suicide thing was concocted by the catholic church because priests were committing suicide to be with god.

I don't know where you got that one from, but it's far more basic: Judas Iscariot committed suicide.

The church's stance on suicide has mellowed over time, which IMO is a good thing.

The original McConkie position in "Doctrine" was "Suicide is murder, pure and simple, and murderers are damned. There is no more justification for self-murder than for the willful destruction of another." Not a whole lot of room for forgiveness there.

The first time to my recollection that the doctrine was loosening was in 1987 when Russ Ballard published an op-ed in the Ensign called "Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1987/10/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not?lang=eng

Now we have Renlund gaslighting in the Desperate News, calling McConkie's position "an old sectarian notion" as if TSCC had itself never taught it. "Yeah, it was only those other so-called Christians, not us!"

https://www.deseret.com/2018/7/2/20648210/lds-apostle-totally-false-that-suicide-leads-to-permanent-hell

I think it's good that the church has lightened up on this subject. But it's a stretch to assert that it says suicide is "okay."

The church gets to pick and chose what defines "suicide", which is a necessary and oh so useful ability.

Free Agency: A loving ghawd's gift to his children, by which he allows them to be free to do exactly as he tells them or else he'll spank them FOREVER!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 09:28AM by elderolddog.

You should never follow someone that wouldn't follow you.

Do you follow me?

moremany Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should never follow someone that wouldn't
> follow you.
>
> Do you follow me?

If we follow each other, we'd be wandering around in circles.

Shalako Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> moremany Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You should never follow someone that wouldn't
> > follow you.
> >
> > Do you follow me?
>
> If we follow each other, we'd be wandering around
> in circles.
Does that mean we should circlevent the issues?

Hey!! It give you something to do on Sunday instead of relaxing and enjoying yourself.

Isn't it a 'good thing' when expectations are in line with customs & culture of the era?

'should' ChurchCo have stuck with polyg & racism (more than they are Now)?

certainly our thoughts about medical treatments, costs, & life outcomes are more realistic now than in the 60s, palliative care, etc.

"IF I were ghawd" I wouldn't want 'my people' to be obnoxious just to example some crazy stuff that was 'right' for old testament times but Crazy now!
Example: the changes in temple garments; the older ones weren't 'more right' than today's styles, they were just different!

But: Core Values- Honesty, Kindness, trust shouldn't change!!

Yes, 'the times they are a-changing'!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 12:28PM by GNPE.

Commenting on the subject line, which has very little to do with the subject:

Um, if nothing changes, you don't need a prophet.

Ponderize it. Take all the time you need.

Exactly!!

But, Mormons fudge on core values, their walking back (diluting) the Honesty requirement for a TR is my best example, the other striking one is their (unspoken, but very real) toleration of divorces.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 02:41PM by GNPE.

Dodging the Tax Man.
Critical component.

Everything else is Potemkin Fluff. To maintain the appearance of caring and of being an actual church.

Changing things - but never actually pronouncing prophecy - seems like they aren't too clear on the job description.

It allows the ongoing regurgitation of religious dogma

Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic is good busy work.