Well, things are calming down where I live. We went back to level 2 so I came home to check on things and all was good. I went back to St. Helens and we loaded up mom and came home on Saturday. We still have heavy smoke and level 3 across the street, but neighbors have returned and are bringing home their livestock. Its very dewy and wet in the mornings and rain is on the way.

So here's the interesting insight....the neighbor that told me about arsonists etc., in our area.....he's a 20 something, drives a big red truck flying a confederate and US flag, the horn plays "Dixie". Has a Blue line flag in the yard and had a Trump sign (its his father's house but he lives there with him).

He came walking down my driveway with a hunting rifle on one shoulder and a shot gun resting on the other. Told me detailed stuff....arsonists tried to torch the cafe, got caught and beat, then hauled away by police. Said he saw ninja type guys on motorcycles, bottle rockets in the woods, etc. Sat all night on the roof guarding the house ready to shoot.

This was rather disturbing news as I was about to evacuate and not return until it was safe from fires. I spent a couple days worrying our house would be burned, or looted and glad I moved 95% of my music gear out.

Then when I returned on Saturday, I talked to the neighbors whose son is a good friend of this guy and told them what he told me. They rolled eyes and said he says a lot of crap and none of what he said was true. he told them Antifa tried to blow up the Bonneville dam....not true.

So......here is a right wing, gun toting, Trump supporting, ready to kill someone dude....THAT IS BLATANTLY SPREADING FALSEHOODS, SPREADING FEAR, LYING!!!!! WHERE THE HELL DOES HE GET HIS INFO???

It was obvious he was in his element with the conspiracy talk and guns in hand, ready and willing to shoot. This is the mindset of many in this country and seeing it face to face was very strange and discomforting. I'm all for guns and protecting life, but this was different.

There have been reports of some looting and some arrests made in other areas, and spent fireworks were found in Corbett I believe, but this guy was off the map...and ready to kill.....and it was all based on actual "fake news".

To a guy like that, fake news is anything that disparages his dear leader. Real news is anything that he can use to justify grabbing his guns and shooting someone....no need to know if its true or not in either case.

If this too political, delete it. I just find it bizarre and a scary sign of our times.

Many profas (as opposed to antifas) appear to be cultishly following the signals they are getting to do whatever they can to cause chaos and keep dear leader in control.

Somehow they convince themselves in an Orwellian way that this is law and order. I find it bizarre and scary too. I fear that both sides are going to escalate crap like this and things will get worse.

Exhibit A: Many humans don't learn a thing from history.

"Profas." That's good; it states clearly who so many of those people are, the advocates of unconstitutional dictatorial rule. We see it here all the time.

The historical parallels are clear. Governments create their own fake news--"what you see isn't happening"--and then use propaganda to unleash more or less unorganized thugs and sympathetic parts of the police system. Minority ethnicities and foreigners are targeted for abuse and society gets to vent its primal impulses at those scapegoats.

We've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
===============================

Bingo.

In another post you illuminated how we're evolutionary psychobiologically "wired" to run around in small related groups (of 12 to 20 -- any bigger and that's why we get cliques). So the first question when confronted with a stranger is: "is this an 'Us' or is it a 'Them' because if it is a 'Them' I have to kill it." This biological tendency is proving very exploitable.

The second evobio phenomenon is the need for a leader. We automatically arrange ourselves to find and follow a leader.
Have come to call this phenomenon "the lemming problem."

Altogether, am not optimistic.

Would you please define "profas?"
What is the evidence for them?
Is there any evidence that these "profas" are responsible for these fires"

So you are anti-anti fascist.

You mean like the accusation that the imaginary "antifa" is starting fires ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 01:31AM by Dave the Atheist.

I made it up. If someone is not anti fascism (like the word made up to describe people not in the current admin's camp) it only makes sense to assume they are in favor of fascism. It's really not hard to see that is ultimately the choice before us based on the tactics of the autocrat in charge.

I have no idea who started any of the fires other than that nut with the gender reveal party. I have seen vigilante types waving around guns in support of the autocrat but I have no reason to believe they are related to any fires. Heck, even you sound like a bot half the time. It takes sound verification for me to believe anything lately.

I don't remember ever having a gender reveal party. Is it too late and how do I do it ?

You could always pull a Chris Evans.

You made me google Chris Evans so now I get the reference. *LOL*

Looters are a problem, though burning to death would seem to be a bigger problem, and moreso for the looters.

Hey, if I were an urban rioter and looking for a place to loot, I'd drive around rural Oregon setting fires. I bet I could score a flat screen tv and as much of a side of beef as could fit in my hatchback.

How the hell does looting from a motorcycle work?
<\s>

Your neighbor never outgrew playing GI Joe. Bet he has a full collection of Avengers movies.

Your neighbor is a f***wit, very possibly a Q supporter.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/09/rumors-about-antifa-wildfires-in-oregon-are-false-law-enforcement-says.html

https://apnews.com/d294693de30f859f6c028122fd99bf11

Other stories:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/us/antifa-wildfires.html

https://www.foxnews.com/us/rumors-far-right-far-left-setting-fires

And now, a hayseed Oregon sheriff's deputy has been suspended for fueling the false rumors:

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/12/clackamas-county-antifa-rumor-sheriff-deputy-leave/

My experience on wild fires, when an area is under an evacuation order, road blocks are set up to keep people out.

Generally if someone comes to a road block and says they need to go in for one reason or another, they are turned back. If someone needs something, like medication or medical device, the people staffing will take information like name, address, reason, time they expect to be back.

If they want to check their house out, they'll be denied access.

There are areas where there are numerous way of to beat the road block, if the trespassers are caught, they can be fined and maybe jail time.

It isn't possible to keep people out 100% of the time, law enforcement do the best they can.

Then there is the possibility of people getting in declaring the rights under the 4th Estate,ie, the right of the press to go anywhere. It something that can be debated, just watch some of the video of the riots/protests and people running around with some type of id on their clothing that states they are the "news" or the "press".

Beyond the partisan issues, it sounds like your neighbor is mentally unstable. Unfortunately, there are people and groups who are trying to use that instability to their advantage.

I am just glad that in California at least these fires are restricted to the poorly managed state lands leaving the majority controlled Federal acreage free of fire.

My heavens, Kentish, I don't know where you got that idea but did you bother to check it with a map?

The bulk of the land that is burning up is under the direct control of the Forest Service, a federal agency. The fires are not the result of a failure to rake.

Irony.... Irony, LW.

For that one I deserve the Golden Whoosh with Tasselled Epaulets.

No problem. I fully understand that many are not born with the irony gene we Brits are born with. Not to even mention our massive humility gene.

But what about the teeth? /s

And the split infinitives. The NHS made progress with the teeth but the split infinitives are running amok!

I heard split infinitives are caused by chewing ice, bad for the teeth......or are you referring to one universe breaking apart into two?

Rainbows are infinitely annoying. One sometimes wishes they would just go up in smoke (like everything else).

To steal from a great man it is perhaps only in America that it is something up with which they will not put. Language is first and foremost about communication so why not split infinitives? In many cases it improves clarity and can help remove formality from said communication.

Blasphemy!

Next thing you know Kentish will be telling us we shouldn't require Latin in elementary schools!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 06:52PM by Lot's Wife.

A preposition is something you should not end a sentence with.

Let's not go there.

yes, the first response to any 'out there' statement in the British/Commonwealth world is 'surely they're taking the piss!'

FINALLY I get something that Lot's Wife didn't.

raise the roof!

Watch it, Beth, or I'll send my agents to reclaim your Order of the Whoosh with Carious Teeth and Pomegranates.

May I just have this one thing?

Of course, my friend.

But do get those teeth looked at.

I'd love to, but my dentist is only seeing emergencies right now.

We're having a bit of a COVID issue here where masks violate some sort of enumerated right imagined by the people who yelled at me at LINCOLN CREEK HARDWARE because hoax.

This post would be overly political, except for the horror imposed by the fact that they believe their motives are sanctioned directly by God. For these people, politics is a religious expression. Part of their agenda (and they have one, as opposed to the gays) is to dispense with that part of the Constitution and establish a state religion. So you are entirely appropriate.

OP should send missionaries to his house.

I love you. I'm glad you're safe.

I have idiot relatives like this. They take any excuse they can scrape up to run around with their guns. I will not have anything to do with them but I see their crap on FB.

This insanity is one of the reasons I look forward to retiring abroad next year. I am beyond tired of dealing with too many around me who have lost their minds.

Sure, these problems exist everywhere, but it will be a relief to be outside of my own culture.

Tragic, isn't it?

As if wildfires aren't bad enough without people defending their property against imaginary foes in the dark with their guns.

Seriously, the last thing you need in a panicky environment with people evacuating fire zones under stress is twitchy-fingered militiamen looking for antifas...

Just heard on the radio how some county has been making arrests of people trying to break the evacuation perimeter, trying to get to their marijuana farms. Mendocino County,perhaps?

Increasing reports here in the East of arson. There's this:

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1305644823517392897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1305644823517392897%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F09%2Fnot-climate-change-arsonist-caught-video-starting-brush-fire-kelso-washington%2F

An "Oregon man" was charged with wildfire arson, and released at 6:45 PM on his own recognizance. Before the night was over, he was arrested again and charged with six more fires, with a molotov cocktail in his possession.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/oregon-man-freed-after-starting-brush-fire-set-six-more-cops/

This woman caught a man behaving suspiciously on her property with matches, no cigarettes, in his possession, and held him at gunpoint. Her demeanor suggests she may have an LE background.

https://twitter.com/zerosum24/status/1305214840798171137?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1305214840798171137%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F09%2Fnot-climate-change-oregon-woman-catches-arsonist-property-matches-holds-gunpoint-police-arrive-video%2F

That is a disturbing post, caffiend.

You begin by mentioning something about marijuana in CA. Is that an attempt to cast what follows as Antifa or some other "leftist" organization? Because otherwise I see no connection at all to the rest of your post.

Then you link to a credible clip of someone apparently trying to start a fire in WA. I think he probably is an arsonist and should, if convicted, suffer condign punishment. But is he a member of Antifa or a leftist? Is that something we are supposed to infer from your preceding statement about marijuana farmers in a different state?

Your post concludes with a clip of a civilian holding a man hostage with a gun on the grounds that he was on her property with matches but no cigarettes. There is in the clip no explanation for how she knows he has matches but no cigarettes; but even if he is a bona fide arsonist arrested legally, is there any evidence for the implied conclusion that he is a leftist?

In short, you seem to be stringing together unrelated events to tell a story about leftists devastating the West Coast and being rightfully arrested by armed civilians with guns. Is that really what you want to do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 06:50PM by Lot's Wife.

Dude linked to the twitter feed of some racist looney who can be reached on Parler. I'm sorry I gave his Twitter feed the click.

Did you watch the final clip? The one of the man with the matches?

I don't know the law out there in Westerland like you probably do, but is that a legal citizens arrest? Can that woman pull a gun out and point it at a person who happens to be on her property without permission? I mean, she effected the arrest before even asking him what was in his hand.

Depending on the law, she may be guilty of kidnapping and, again depending on the local law, brandishing or even assault with a deadly weapon.

No. Dude's profile picture is a variation of Pepe the Frog. Real? Troll? Bot? Don't know. It's not worth my time.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you watch the final clip? The one of the man
> with the matches?
>
> Is that a legal citizens
> arrest? Can that woman pull a gun out and point
> it at a person who happens to be on her property
> without permission? I mean, she effected the
> arrest before even asking him what was in his
> hand.

I'm guessing she saw him with matches in his hand, as he released them from his hand (not pocket) once he was proned out. If she can establish that in court, then yes, she effected a genuine citizen's arrest. The problem with citizen's arrest is that the person effecting it had better be 1000% right, because if that case goes south, she's liable for criminal and civil action. But as I stated elsewhere, she seemed to be very sure of what the situation was, and what she was doing (and doing well). Her case is air-tight if she knew he had outstanding warrants, making him a "fugitive at large."

I didn't catch the handgun she held, but it looked like a high-capacity departmental issue to me.

Would you go back to your marijuana Farm?

NO! You would have never left in the first place or taken it with you.

Someone - or something - will smoke it, eventually... But you can't let your CASH (crop) go Up In Smoke.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is a disturbing post, caffiend.

These are disturbing times.
>
> You begin by mentioning something about marijuana
> in CA.

Something I heard on the radio, so I can't source. Relevant to a few posts about people not evacuating.
>
> Then you link to a credible clip of someone
> apparently trying to start a fire in WA... But is he a
> member of Antifa or a leftist? Is that something
> we are supposed to infer from your preceding
> statement about marijuana farmers in a different
> state?

Nothing was said or implied about his political affiliation, or lack of; or, for that matter, marijuana. My point is that I believe there is more arson they we are being told, and this is one probable case.
>
> Your post concludes with a clip of a civilian
> holding a man hostage with a gun on the grounds
> that he was on her property with matches but no
> cigarettes. There is in the clip no explanation
> for how she knows he has matches but no
> cigarettes; but even if he is a bona fide arsonist
> arrested legally, is there any evidence for the
> implied conclusion that he is a leftist?

Nothing was said about "leftists," either in my post or the clips. The suspect did produce matches, discharging them from his hand, and said, when asked, he did not have cigarettes.
>
> In short, you seem to be stringing together
> unrelated events to tell a about leftists
> devastating the West Coast...

Only that arson (recreational, psycho, political, whatever) seems to be more involved than we are currently, or officially, informed. This is a crisis-in-progress. Let's be careful with the conclusions we jump to.

caffiend, your statement that part of California is upset about people going back to their marijuana farms has absolutely nothing to do with arson. If you say you didn't intend to say something political, I accept that.

The statement remains strange given its lack of connection to its context. Then we move on to a clip of a man apparently trying to start a fire and finally another recording of a woman pulling a gun on someone she thinks may be an arsonist, arresting him, interrogating him, and then calling the police. That last is an unsettling video given, you know, the constitution.

But putting aside all of that and also the context of global warming, if your argument is that some people are committing arson, I would say, uh, yeah.

>An "Oregon man" was charged with wildfire arson, and released at 6:45 PM on his own recognizance. Before the night was over, he was arrested again and charged with six more fires, with a molotov cocktail in his possession

Has nothing to do with antifa or climate change. It was a homeles man with probable mental health problems

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/09/man-arrested-twice-in-12-hour-span-for-starting-fires-near-i-205.html

"About an hour later, a witness flagged down officers and told them that a man in a nearby tent had lit the fire. Domingo Lopez Jr., 45, was taken into custody and admitted to setting the fire, police said in a statement. He was found with a plastic bottle with a burnt wick attached, according to police."
"Lopez was found walking on the shoulder of the freeway a short time later and arrested, police said. He was taken to a local hospital for a mental health evaluation and charged with six more counts of reckless burning."
"Despite at least three other arrests for arson around the state in recent weeks, local police departments and the FBI have roundly rejected and debunked rumors of widespread arson in relation to the massive wildfires that have burned in Oregon over the last week."

And
https://www.koin.com/news/crime/clackamas-county-2-arson-arrests-not-connected-to-wildfires/

https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/Sheriff-Arson-arrest-made-in-Phoenix-on-the-night-Almeda-Fire-began-572386831.html

None of these are related to antifa or climate change activists - despite what the right wing fringe media may think.

As to Californians trying to get past evacuation perimeters, quite a number of people have tried to do to check on their property - including Oregon's ex fire marshal.

> As to Californians trying to get past evacuation
> perimeters, quite a number of people have tried to
> do to check on their property - including Oregon's
> ex fire marshal.

And even if it is true, it has nothing to do with arson in OR and WA. I can see no purpose to that factoid other than trying to cast the other articles in the leftist/Antifa narrative.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > As to Californians trying to get past
> evacuation
> > perimeters, quite a number of people have tried
> to
> > do to check on their property - including
> Oregon's
> > ex fire marshal.
>
> And even if it is true, it has nothing to do with
> arson in OR and WA. I can see no purpose to that
> factoid other than trying to cast the other
> articles in the leftist/Antifa narrative.

He said he was searching for a missing person. Perhaps that was a cover story.

Yes, I would think so.

The point remains that Californians breaking regulations to see if their homes and properties are okay is not relevant to the wildfires further north.

<sigh> Again, The Gateway Pundit distorts things.

It reports, "She told the man if her husband would have caught him he’d be dead."

True enough. But it's not the entire quote. Part of it was conveniently edited out. Here's the rest of it:

"She said: 'Had my husband been here he would have been dead. This criminal has got multiple warrants, one of them [for] assaulting a police officer.'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8735775/Woman-holds-suspected-arsonist-gunpoint-cops-arrived.html

The would-be arsonist is thus apparently known to local law enforcement and not, it would seem, some wild-eyed antifa lefty.

logged off today Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Part of it was conveniently edited out. Here's the rest
> of it:
>
> "She said: 'Had my husband been here he would have
> been dead. This criminal has got multiple
> warrants, one of them assaulting a police
> officer.'"
>
My guess is that both parts of the quote was hyperbole. People have seen a lot of urban arson over the summer. Now the forests are aflame, with credible reports of rural arson. Since she caught him on her property, I'll forgive her a bit of rhetorical indignation

If you look at her bearing and interrogation, it seems likely to me that she has Law Enforcement experience. She took, and maintained, complete control of the situation.

>
> The would-be arsonist is thus apparently known to
> local law enforcement and not, it would seem, some
> wild-eyed antifa lefty.

Who said he was? The facts are that he was on her property with matches that she apparently witnessed from her car. Also, did you note how the suspect "knew the drill?"

Of course. He got on the ground very quickly with no backtalk. And even if she meant what she said, no hyperbole, I'll grant that. I don't even have a quarrel with her detaining him until the cops arrived.

My issue is with your use of TGP as a source. It's blatantly using this incident as a data point for "NO CLIMATE CHANGE" – as if random arsonists somehow prove climate change false. The two have nothing to do with each other, and for TGP to try to conflate them demonstrates that it's nothing more than a delusional, dishonest propaganda outlet.

TGP followed up with "The mainstream media ignored this citizen’s arrest."

Bullshit. Not every penny-ante arson case can be covered by the national news outlets. Last year, my neighborhood was hit by a homeless, mentally ill person starting fires in local dumpsters, and he even torched a car on the street where I live. "The MSM" didn't cover that either, and even the local news stations gave it only a brief blip. So no, despite TGP's frenzied declaration, it's not being "ignored," there are much bigger stories to cover.

TGP also maintains that "It goes against their global warming and anti-gun narrative."

Again, bullshit. This arson case has nothing to do with climate change or global warming. But TGP doesn't deal with rational discussion, only demagoguery. And the tiny toons it appeals to… just read the comments below the story. Antifa this, antifa that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/armed-gangs-protecting-property-wildfire-180113285.html

These armed "gangs" (the word is in quotation marks because normally white property owners aren't described that way even if they are acting as such) are detaining and interrogating people with no legal authority. As the local sheriff notes, "it is illegal to stop somebody at gunpoint.” They should accordingly be jailed, for if this continues it is only a matter of time before innocent people get killed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 08:39PM by Lot's Wife.

It's not (just) the people toting guns we have to worry about.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has its boots strapped up. (Paraphrasing a quote I heard somewhere years ago)

Fire Update maybe but I don't know about the interesting insight. Sometimes people need weapons to protect themselves/ property/ community, etc., But it can't protect idiots from themselves - and US - necessarily.

WATER Guns~

In my 72 years I have never been so thankful to NOT be a US citizen or resident as now.

We're a mess.