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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 11:14AM

Heads I Win –Tails You Lose

Fascinating results of an 11 year study on lying in the science section last night forced me to write this. I had no choice. Really.



Used to be bad to be a Scoundrel. Now it’s an endearing term we allow others when they cling to their supposed morality despite their lies. “Well, no matter what he did, he’s a good person down deep.” (And it's getting me what I want.)

Amazing how much we are able to overlook—a form of lying---when the overlooking will get us the “ONE THING” we really desire. End justifies the means, anyone? Besides, everyone's doing it.

Easy to see where this applies to politics and social causes or the advancement of careers, the appropriation of funds. But Mormons? They would NEVER lie.



How about when you tell yourself it is what God wants when you cancel a child for apostasy or kick your gay kid to the curb or excommunicate and ostracize, because, the one thing you want is to be seen as the perfect Mormon who WILL NOT TOLERATE SINFUL BEHAVIOR! And, need your Mormon peers to see that. Righteous rock of God you are! For all to see. And be impressed by.

How about lying by accepting the lies of others because . . . very conveniently those lies support your own agenda? Joseph? A sleezy adulterer? I don’t believe that for a second. He was a prophet of God and those are lies spread by the Adversary you tell yourself as you cling to your decorating plan for your mansion in the CK. Marble floors and vaulted ceilings while those in the TK sit in their stick frame and mud huts.

But it’s 2020 and we don’t admit to lies anymore when we are caught red tongued. We now have “untruth” and, “mis-spoke.” So much more civilized, no? AND, don't forget the Mormon favorite, "I don't know that we ever said that."

How about a few new ones? "Morally confused?" Love that. "Moral disengagement?" Very forgiving term, that.

And then there is accepting the lies of others in order to make our own more palatable. Giving those the benefit of the doubt when some have stretched the truth because it suits our own agenda.

How about “morally challenged” for the truly accomplished liars? “Linguistically Lame” for those who wish to claim it was all a mistake, they were misunderstood, never meant it "like that". Why even use the term mistake, actually? Faux Pas. French makes it sound so much more innocent. N'est-ce pas?


As one TBM I know faces the facts that become ever so hard to claim to be lies of Satan to halt the "God's One True Church," they use this convenience: "We don't know why Heavenly Father chose Joseph to restore His church, we just KNOW that He did." Then they drop the mic.


I have always been so aware of lying. Consider myself expert if I chose to engage. I don't. But perhaps that is a lie.


So all the lying in the world has left me in a state of "the jury always being out." Impossible to come to a conclusion except for the concrete that can be seen, tasted, smelled, held, while 'heard' remains suspect. Science is a life raft, though, because it traffics in the senses as well. Otherwise we'd all be lying at the bottom of the sea.

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Posted by: Glass Whisperer ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 01:22PM

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> How about when you tell yourself it is what God
> wants when you cancel a child for apostasy or kick
> your gay kid to the curb or excommunicate and
> ostracize, because, the one thing you want is to
> be seen as the perfect Mormon who WILL NOT
> TOLERATE SINFUL BEHAVIOR! And, need your Mormon
> peers to see that. Righteous rock of God you are!
> For all to see. And be impressed by.

True !!!


> How about lying by accepting the lies of others
> because . . . very conveniently those lies support
> your own agenda? Joseph? A sleezy adulterer? I
> don’t believe that for a second. He was a
> prophet of God and those are lies spread by the
> Adversary you tell yourself as you cling to your
> decorating plan for your mansion in the CK. Marble
> floors and vaulted ceilings while those in the TK
> sit in their stick frame and mud huts.


True again!! Seen that a lot !

True on every point, Done & Done. No lie !

I especially like “caught red tongued.” Put a smile on my face. :)

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 02:40PM

Being tangled in a complex web of rationalization and self denial is part of the high cost of Mormonism. If TBMs want to live in that world, that’s their business, but it’s more like they are trapped there. The cult knows how to manipulate.

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Posted by: Glass Whisperer ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 04:22PM

Memory just popped up:

I looked at home for sale in Provo and noticed that a deck had been built covering window wells to basement rooms. I pointed that out to my TBM realtor and asked if that was even legal. He said—-not to worry, inspectors In Utah will overlook some stuff if need be.

That’s when cheerful liars can be dangerous.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 03:57PM

So . . . what kind of liar are you? :)


In the study people were asked to flip coins on their computer so the participants thought those doing the study would never know what the participants got--heads or tails. But they did.

The participants got $5 for getting heads and nothing for tails.

20% were honest. Nice but boring.

10% flat out lied--got tails but reported heads. Garden variety liars.

A third group didn't bother to roll at all and just reported heads. They were labeled "radically dishonest" in the article.


Ane, interestingly . . .


8% Though they were allowed one toss, this group kept flipping until they got heads and reported that flip only. They were labeled "cheating non-liars." Which I find a very interesting term. Makes me think of Mormons (and many others) twisting meanings of words so what they are saying is not "technically" a lie. Of course no one here would ever fall into that category. :)


Do most Mormons fall into the 8% but have added a twist? Just keep flipping? Keep flipping until somebody finally unearths a chariot and some horse bones in down town Memphis or a steel sword in Bakersfield. Until they stop "tossing the coin" there is still the chance that the Liahona will turn up at the bottom of the Mississippi River.


I think the lesson here is---if you are going to lie, put some effort into it. Always do your best! Like the Mormons.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 03:59PM

Also in recent times we see how great liars become virtuosos:

After you tell one lie and people are suspicious or onto you, quickly tell an even more outrageous one.* Rinse and repeat as often as necessary.







*Not referring to anyone in particular of course.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 04:33PM

In my younger days, I would have reported coin flips honestly. Now in my cynical old age, I would report 100% heads and look you in the eye while I was doing it. Want an honest report? Then reward honest behavior. Otherwise you get what you get.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:02PM

Are you saying that 'lying' is something you need to practice to get right?


Unless, like me, you're a born sociopath, and are practicing advanced sociopathology for a living.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:18PM

How do you ever expect to get ahead in life?

/s

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:25PM

EOD is definitely a head in life.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:35PM

Lucky you EOD. Some of us are sociopathology challenged, though, but I make up for it with a couple of other things.

Number one thing that works for me is I have an innocent face. Very useful. People "think" they can read me like a book.

Number two thing that works for me is I got a black belt in Advanced Passive/Aggressive in the Mormon church. I know how to call it forth when useful. Works much better than the priesthood ever did, lemme tell ya.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:37PM

Remarkable, isn't it? An entire culture based on passive aggression.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 08:42PM

Did you know that if you scratch your ass while conversing with someone you've just met, they will naturally assume that you are totally inferior to them and will never notice anything you do in their presence?

The exception to this rule is if the person starts scratching his/her own ass, and says, "I know, right!?!"

Cherish that person!!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 05:27PM

"Want an honest report? Then reward honest behavior. Otherwise you get what you get."

Ha!

Luv you summer.

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