I have been recently, that is the last 12 or so years, seriously studying histories proposed to be of ancient space travelers who came to this planet some 445,000 years ago and triggered a series of events that ultimately resulted in the genetic creation of homo-sapien aka human beings.
There are people who scoff at the idea that human beings were a genetic creation of beings from another planet. These beings who I will now label and thence refer to as the Annunaki apparently came here seeking gold which could be used to repair atmospheric damage on their home planet which I will label Nibiru.
Their need for a labor source led to the genetic modification of
a being living on this planet at this time that walked on its' hind legs and had usable thumb based hands and was genetically close to the travelers. Could this have been a neanderthal type being?
These travelers were from an advanced society. They had to be because of the fact that they had vehicles suitable for space travel.
The texts that I will use for reference are The Enuma Elish, The Epic of Gilgamesh, and The Lost Book of Enki.
From what I understand these books were written in cuneiform, an ancient language, usually engraved on clay tablets that were then fired to preserve them.
This is an ongoing project and I may change my opinion more than once as I progress through this process.
Probably the main purpose of this is to clarify in my mind the plausibility of the legends and and annals surrounding the creation of humans.
If these are true then the Joseph Smith Jr. stories cannot be true. Or maybe by extension they could be.
This is going to be a wild ride!!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 10:03PM by thedesertrat1.

uhmuhgad

This is going to be a wild ride

And yet you refuse to check your sources for accuracy.

uhmuhgad

Joe Smith and Zecariah Sitchen actually have a lot in common.

Both claimed the ability to translate an ancient language.

Both used that self-claimed ability to write a fanciful book of history.

In both cases when scholars who really can translate ancient languages did so, the aforementioned books were shown to be a farrago of bullshit.

Sitchin's failure was that, unlike Smith, he didn't create a church.

In your response you completely ignore The Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh to blast Sitchen why?

Where do the Enuma Elish or The Epic of Gilgamesh specifically mention space travel or the need for gold to fix the atmosphere?

Those are central to your stated belief. But those ideas are strictly Sitchin's interpretations. Therefore, the credibility of your argument is fundamentally related to the credibility of Sitchin.

> Therefore, the credibility of your argument is
> fundamentally related to the credibility of
> Sitchin.

Let me fix that for you.

"Therefore, the credibility of your argument is fundamentally related to the ABSENCE OF ANY EVIDENCE FOR IT."

Sitchin doesn't count. He isn't evidence.

Oh, I agree. No real scholar who has translated the originals has come up with anything like Sitchin.

The only people who create alien spacecraft out of this are Sitchen and his followers. That is why my post that desertman objected to was about Sitchen. It is only from there that desertman's story comes. So Sitchen's credibilty is central to the issue. There is no evidence other than his "translation" that supports that story. I agree that Sitchin isn't credible.
Ergo, no evidence.

Same page, as usual.

Have you read the three books I cited

How about you give evidence for your claims then we can talk.

In your response you completely ignore The Enuma Elish and the Epic of Gilgamesh why?

You don't read very closely. I said below that I have read translations of the books you mention yet here you say I have not.

You mention specifically, Gilgamesh. Let's talk about that. I have read that book in multiple translations at least four times, including once in my late high school years, twice on my mission, and once in a religion/mythology class in college. Now that I think about it, there was also a fifth time about 15 years ago when I was studying Eliade's The Myth of the Eternal Return and thought Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish were critical texts in that regard.

Why three times before I was 23, you may ask. Because I was a committed Mormon trying to understand the origins of Noah's Flood. You realize, I hope, that Gilgamesh was the source of the Biblical story. Right?

So don't accuse me of having failed to read the texts. I daresay I know a lot more about Gilgamesh than you do and I have read more credible translations. It is you who have not read the texts in reliable form. It is you who don't know the story well enough to have a meaningful conversation.

I am considering founding a school of thought that Earth's varied and fecund abundance is the result of a Space-Winabago stopping by to stock up on water, and emptying it's bilge tank somewhere in what would become Mesopotamia.

I know this isn't that glamorous a Genesis, the Garden of Eden as a pile of space crap, but in all seriousness, this is as valid an Origin Tale as any other I've heard.

I have no skin in this game of "having answers" to questions that don't change anything. People have the first shot at making themselves happy; relying on others can be chancy, so pleasure yourself all you can.

Should I be praying to Uncle Eddie?

Were a certain incognito prince and his canine companion aboard?

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/nutshell.html

http://skepdic.com/essays/sitchin.htm

http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id14.html

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/

Even the woowoo crowd has a hard time with him

https://web.archive.org/web/20080205194138/http://www.lauralee.com/vanflan.htm

I read yout cites have you read mine?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 11:28AM by thedesertrat1.

In your response you completely ignore The Enuma Elish and The epic of Gilgamesh

?

read the three books I quoted then we can talk

Um, you've been going on about this for six years.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1163138,1163686#msg-1163686

"the Annunaki apparently came here seeking gold"

Yes, because Earth is the one place in the universe where gold exists.

"which could be used to repair atmospheric damage on their home planet"

Right. That's what gold does, fix up the air. Or maybe there was a big sale at the Nibiru Mall, and they were a bit short at the time. Has anyone told the stupid Annunaki about Fort Knox?

"which I will label Nibiru"

Thank you for taking it upon yourself to label it for us. How original! Wait, isn't Nibiru that doomsday planet that's supposed to return like Jeezus and just never gets around to it? What a deadbeat planet, that Nibiru.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/13/just-kill-us-already-planet-x/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/04/april-23-apocalypse-nibiru-rapture-end-time-myth-science/

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nibiru.htm

Sitchin has been carnival-barking his Nibiru snake oil since 1976.

We definitely disagree on that

good grief Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Um, you've been going on about this for six
> years.
>
> https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1163138
> ,1163686#msg-1163686
>
> "the Annunaki apparently came here seeking gold"
>
> Yes, because Earth is the one place in the
> universe where gold exists.
>
> "which could be used to repair atmospheric damage
> on their home planet"
>
> Right. That's what gold does, fix up the air. Or
> maybe there was a big sale at the Nibiru Mall, and
> they were a bit short at the time. Has anyone told
> the stupid Annunaki about Fort Knox?
>
> "which I will label Nibiru"
>
> Thank you for taking it upon yourself to label it
> for us. How original! Wait, isn't Nibiru that
> doomsday planet that's supposed to return like
> Jeezus and just never gets around to it? What a
> deadbeat planet, that Nibiru.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/
> wp/2018/04/13/just-kill-us-already-planet-x/
>
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/04/ap
> ril-23-apocalypse-nibiru-rapture-end-time-myth-sci
> ence/
>
> https://science.howstuffworks.com/nibiru.htm
>
> Sitchin has been carnival-barking his Nibiru snake
> oil since 1976.
We all have our perceptions I am at liberty to state mine even if I am the only one to accept them.

Are you saying that cuneiform is an alien language?

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you saying that cuneiform is an alien
> language?
Aabsolutely not. It is ancient Sumerian

So, that tablets contain your source material due to their age? (I'm not intentionally giving you a hard time.)

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, that tablets contain your source material due
> to their age? (I'm not intentionally giving you a
> hard time.)
Don't worry about a hard time many people give me one.
I am just exercising my thoughts on the subject. I really don't care if anybody agrees with me. I am so stubborn I will probably not change my mind

TDR, I for one would be happy to change my mind if you can explain why your translations of the texts are better than the ones I have read. Surely you can't expect refugees from a cult that used fraudulent translations and supernatural stories to enthrall people to accept what appear to be fraudulent translations and supernatural stories from another source.

Help us out here.

I do not claim to have translated them. Only to have read and studied them. I have also read Michael Tellinger's book Th Slave Species of God.
After you have read these books and can cite from them we may be able to dicsuss the issues.

Tellinger is a pharmacist, for heaven's sake, who cribbed his ideas from Sitchen. Your whole belief system is based on the work of a man with an undergraduate degree in economics and a career in journalism and shipping management; and a pharmacist likewise with no training or expertise in Mesopotamian mythology.

If you are unfortunate enough to contract COVID-19, please don't seek treatment from a gardener.

>> "I am so stubborn I will probably not change my mind"

Yet you want others to be open minded about what you say? Perfect!

Roy G Biv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> "I am so stubborn I will probably not change my
> mind"
>
> Yet you want others to be open minded about what
> you say? Perfect!
Like I said this is my view of the subject. Chew it up.Swallow it. Spit it out. I don't care. The reason I post here is because I can say what I really think and not what I am told to think by others

Yes, he is referring to old Sumerian and broader Mesopotamian myths.

The problem is that those myths are well documented, well studied, and well translated: we know what they say. TDR, however, insists on using translations by a man with a reputation for making things up both generally and in this specific case.

Why, one must ask, can Sitchen, a man who taught himself cuneiform and has no academic credentials in the field, read those ancient texts and see expansive stories of extraterrestrials that not a single expert thinks are there? We have been listening to TDR on this for years and deserve an explanation.

ah

what does this Sitchen person say about Gilgamesh? i'm a bit confused about the spaceships.

aside: why do ancient aliens always build pyramids? what's with the urban planning?

Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin

Suffice it as an aperitif to say that Sitchen believes all ancient human languages, including Chinese and Egyptian, originated in Sumerian, a proposition unsupported by linguistics, history, or genetics.

You therefore have to set aside what science says and take the man, with his Soviet undergraduate degree in economics and his years of experience working for a shipping company, on faith when it comes to the cuneiform texts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 03:39AM by Lot's Wife.

Oh! somewhat not quite related, I borrowed Young Stalin. It'd better not suck.

If you like Montefiore, as I do, his two volumes on Stalin are superb. He discovered and revealed things that no one previously had done. Fortunately for you, however, my tastes are not yours. Stalin and Stalinism are not uplifting topics.

So Polonius was wrong: it's often better to borrow rather than to buy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 11:08PM by Lot's Wife.

Stilted, and I had to put it down a lot, but I like the Romanovs book.

I've been though my spy kick, my Earthsea kick, my MKULTRA/Operation Paperclip/how the US became a big bag of dicks/Nagasaki: Life After Nuclear War kick. Right now I'm on some I should read the classics kick. I've been underwhelmed.

Anyway, I'm ready for more Russians.

There is far more gold in the astroid belt than on earth. Easy to find. Easy to mine. A truly advanced civilization wouldn't need to genetically alter a biological workforce when they could automate the mining process in space.

Alternately they could just tow any astroids home.

Yasssssss!

There are so many scientific problems with that nonsense, I don't even know where to start.

Somehow they had the technology to travel lightyears and identify and alter Earth life genetics but they can't figure out how to move electrons around for metals. Did they bring along whatever conditions (e.g. their own air that requires gold) they needed to sustain their own life on Earth while they developed Earth workers? They needed gold for an atmosphere issue? Seriously? Hmmm, it's almost like some ancient tribe of people on Earth who valued gold wrote a story.

I love it!

Could you possibly put together a brief version of the histories you are studying? I think it could be a compelling read.

jay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love it!
>
> Could you possibly put together a brief version of
> the histories you are studying? I think it could
> be a compelling read.
That is actually one of my future goals

I have read Lord of the Rings twice, including all the endnotes and appendices. If that doesn't count as deep research into the history of Middle Earth, then I don't know what would. I also once received an Icelandic birthday card, and attended Islendingadagurinn.

If Dune has been made into a movie twice, and Lord of the Rings has been made into a movie twice, how come there are no Annunaki movie? How can I accept them as credible?

Pfft. You know you want to be TDR's copy editor.

gosh I don't know

Interesting how the story involves gold and slaves to mine it.......just like the Spanish conquest. Gold, the most precious commodity to man, and an enslaved workforce to get it for them....who would have thought?

They traveled all that way to get the gold and when they got there?....So how are we gonna get all this gold? We'll use the blasto-ray we brought just for that purpose....you did bring the blasto-ray right? Um, I thought you did! Aw shucks, lets just modify these creatures running around here and have them dig it out. Good idea!

Why is there any gold left on this planet?? Oh wait! They replaced the real gold they took and replaced it with fake gold that we think is real so we wouldn't notice it was missing. That's why our air quality is so bad on earth these days.

This stuff is definitely pulled from someones annals.

Roy G Biv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This stuff is definitely pulled from someones
> annals.


::mic drop::

>> "Enuma Elish"

Isn't she Billie's cousin?

I did jot down the titles you suggested and will have a look, who knows, maybe my gold wedding band is fake after all?

OK, I read the summaries of the three stories....main characters, story plot, outcomes, etc. Here is my synopsis.

Epic of Gilgamesh - Greek mythology meets The Jungle Book.

Enuma Elish - Sleeping Beauty meets Clash of the Titans.

Lost Book Of Enki - Carl Sagan on acid watching David Bowie in The Man that Fell to Earth.

I find it facsinating that our minds need things to chew on. It's like they are hungry.

After my daughter died, my mind just went into overdrive. It was always spinning in a dozen ferocious tornados. That's why I went back to school. I had to feed my mind something besides grief and the past and politics and...and...and...

I love your attitude about the topic TDR. You're passionate, but you don't take the attacks personally.

I'm sorry to read about your daughter, Dorothy.

I really appreciate the thoughts. It's been nearly 14 years. A broken heart still beats.

Yes

These things are true - ... AND... Even if they weren't, JS, Jr.'s stories are utterly ridiculous, and patently false, immoral, and unbelievable.

> If these are true then the Joseph Smith Jr. stories cannot be true.

They can't be true anyway... But thanks for your study, sharing.

Hey E.T., phone home. We need pizza! Now. ET say: Nanoo Nanoo (RIP Robin Williams [Mork & Mindy])

True? Hahhaahhaahha

My oh my this has been a fun posting

We all know that Admiral Adama ordered the damaged Battlestar Galactica and the rest of the fleet to fly into the sun and kept only minimal technology, then interbred with the early humans who were luckily an almost exact match with the survivors DNA.

So say we all.

No gold involved, unless the Cylons wanted to pimp up their Centurion suits.

I'd give my left ovary for a Caprica reboot/continuation/whatever.

Did it fall victim to the writers' strike?

"Life" was a great show that was lost during the writers' strike.

Then there was that Cowboys in Space show with Summer Glau (Firefly), AND the Sarah Connor Chronicles was cut short.

Have you seen Tales from the Loop? I like.

Anyway

Writers of the world, UNITE and write some new old stuff!

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyway
>
> Writers of the world, UNITE and write some new old
> stuff!

All right.
I left.
I left.
I left.
I'm right again-

You're right.
Let's unite.
And untie.
And unity.

Of The World, Not In It-

~•°UFOTOFU°•~