"I Was An Evangelical Christian, And I Know Why Many Of Them Resist Logic About COVID-19.
Christianity is based on one singular belief: Jesus raised from the dead. Once you believe in one miracle, the pathway is paved to believe in the next. Not all branches of faith go as far as handling snakes, but they’re all rooted in the one miracle that overrides our intellect. That’s why, as a young, idealistic Christian who only wanted to grow in my faith, I was prayed over to sever me from my intellectual and rational thinking.  

This global pandemic has revealed there’s already a virus inside some American forms of belief — ones that believe God isn’t powerful enough to exist outside of gatherings or ones who believe this is in God’s plan so he can show his power. 

This kind of spiritual terrorism is showing up on a national scale and, as in my own faith journey, only reason can get us out."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/evangelical-christians-covid-19-pandemic_n_5f5b9875c5b6b48507ffc791



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 02:46PM by schrodingerscat.

Yeah, we already know.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2334097

Still on the front page.

Some points are so important they should be made more than once.

What is a ghawd particle? I've heard it mentioned, but ...

Some points are so important that they should be made more than once.

+elderolddog:
"What is a ghawd particle? I've heard it mentioned, but ..."

==Some people are calling it the god particle for short. It is actually called the god damned particle since it is very difficult to detect. The official name is the higgs boson particle.

~~~~iceman9090

...

Cuz he's a True Believer?


Whattid I win?

How bout a makeover?

http://img2-ak.lst.fm/i/u/arO/f1130fba85d94d8a97a11187ba1effcf

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...

Why Beth resists being honest.
I don't resist logic.
I embrace it.
Logos is my god.
I'm a stoic at heart.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...
>
> Logos is my god.


FINALLY! YOU'VE FOUND ONE! Congrats, man.

Always was.
Logos os where we get the word Logic.
But it means much more than that to the original Greeks. To the Stoics it was the divine reason that permeates and animates the cosmos.
It sounds a bit like they were describing the Higgs Boson, (God Particle) which permeates the cosmos and creates all the matter in it, by slowing down energy to almost nothing. M=e/c^2

+schrodingerscat
“Always was.
Logos is where we get the word Logic.
But it means much more than that to the original Greeks. To the Stoics it was the divine reason that permeates and animates the cosmos.
It sounds a bit like they were describing the Higgs Boson, (God Particle) which permeates the cosmos and creates all the matter in it, by slowing down energy to almost nothing. M=e/c^2”

==Not the same thing at all. What Stoics believe is irrelevant. There is quite a difference between a belief, which is just opinion, and testing out a hypothesis, doing science.

There is no reason, planning, logic in the universe. For example, a proton’s property does not come from reason, logic, planning. Its properties are intrinsic to the particle.

Well, if you want to claim that there reason, then you have to demonstrate that there is an intelligent being behind it. Then, you have to explain what that being is made of and where the properties of its atoms/molecules come from.

~~~~iceman9090

First: If there were no logic in the universe, there would be no science. Science is possible because it can discover the mathematical order (logic) in the universe. Even a proton has a complex mathematical order in accordance with its mathematically defined properties, including the properties its underlying quarks; mass, spin, charge, etc., as well as its gauge interactions in accordance with quantum chromodynamics.

Second: Acknowledging that there is logic to the universe, thus making science is possible, is a mystery that *does* cry out for an explanation. Theists explain the mystery by invoking a creative agency (of some kind) that stands outside of the universe. That is not a very satisfying explanation, but it does *not* require theists to provide a further explanation as to where God came from. A theist need only say that the order of the universe was a product of some unknown intelligent agency. The alternative explanation is that order (scientific laws) arose by chance out of the big bang. (Because by definition there would be laws pre-existing the big bang that could be called upon to explain how such order arose.)

G. Salviati Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First: If there were no logic in the universe,
> there would be no science. Science is possible
> because it can discover the mathematical order
> (logic) in the universe. Even a proton has a
> complex mathematical order in accordance with its
> mathematically defined properties, including the
> properties its underlying quarks; mass, spin,
> charge, etc., as well as its gauge interactions in
> accordance with quantum chromodynamics.
>
> Second: Acknowledging that there is logic to the
> universe, thus making science is possible, is a
> mystery that *does* cry out for an explanation.
> Theists explain the mystery by invoking a creative
> agency (of some kind) that stands outside of the
> universe. That is not a very satisfying
> explanation, but it does *not* require theists to
> provide a further explanation as to where God came
> from. A theist need only say that the order of the
> universe was a product of some unknown intelligent
> agency. The alternative explanation is that order
> (scientific laws) arose by chance out of the big
> bang. (Because by definition there would be laws
> pre-existing the big bang that could be called
> upon to explain how such order arose.)


This is ridiculous and has no validity. Theists are certainly required to explain where God comes from, if they wish to propose that such a being exists.

Saying that an intelligent agency "just exists" is pointless, because if that csn "just exist", then the universe can simply "just exist" all on its own.

"It's a rare person who wants to hear what they don't want to hear."
- Dick Cavett

Religious people have a particularly long list of things they don't want to hear. That's the drawback of having your worldview founded on Bronze Age mythology.

Hence their resistance to logic. They are fine with logic that doesn't challenge their worldview. They can drive down the street without hitting stuff, or carry a glass without dumping the contents on the floor. Some stuff they have no trouble understanding.

But if their worldview depends on them not understanding something, they succeed in not understanding it.


Not that complicated, really.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It's a rare person who wants to hear what they
> don't want to hear."
> - Dick Cavett

This is totally true. Any worldview which can only survive by censoring the other side, and name calling, is a very weak worldview. This is why cultish movements either retreat to remote locations or try and change the language of the people around them to insulate themselves. They will also resort to censorship regularly.

Our life is in some ways a fluke, a combination of very unlikely circumstances. A few tweaks here and there and we'd be gone (in fact it looks as if we may well achieve that ourselves over the next few years.) In some cases, people's entire lives have been changed by a chance meeting that could not have happened a few minutes before or after. Under those conditions, it is maybe more understandable that people believe in miracles.

While I think this guy remembers being an evangelical, I am not convinced he can remember what it was like or how he really used to think. We can be a bit like this with Mormonism - I had not attended for a number of years, bit until I spent time in the church again, one rainy Sunday afternoon, I could not quite remember all the petty annoyances I used to feel. Once there, they came flooding back, like muscle memory. Maybe we do need to keep diary entries about such things.

I had an interesting conversation with a girl (she would have been barely in her early twenties) about Covid yesterday. She pointed out parts of it had picked up a religious aspect. She is kinda right - there is a superstitious aspect, that if you do X or do Y, you'll be protected. Unfortunately, X may be an ineffective way of dealing with it, and Y may be no good when you're not doing similar things. Masks and handgel have become the crucifixes and holy water of the new inquisition. They may be effective to a degree, but they are being imbued with the power to ward off evil. (You can catch Covid via your eyes for example and facemasks won't help you unless those are covered.

+I heart Huckabees:
"it is maybe more understandable that people believe in miracles."

==In other words, if the probability is low and it does happen, then it is called a miracle. For example, if I had a bag with billions of cubes with numbers and I pull out the cube with the number 9 on it, that cube is a miracle.

"While I think this guy remembers being an e......"

==Good point.

"You can catch Covid via your eyes for example and facemasks won't help you unless those are covered."

==The purpose of the mask is to block your spit, tiny particles of saliva that fly into the air when you talk. The spit has to pass through your mask and then go 2 m to infect the next guy.

~~~~iceman9090

You *could* catch covid through your eyes, but it's very unlikely. In order for you to become infected, it has to travel to your lungs. Going through your eyes is a very inefficient route to your lungs.

And your statement that masks and hand gels are the crucifixes and holy water of a new inquisition is about as ridiculous as saying toilets and running water are. It's called hygiene and it's a well known scientific method of reducing the spread of disease.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/31/health/covid-19-through-eyes-wellness-trnd/index.html

Don't confuse Jordan with facts. He has an agenda to promote, namely that elites are frequently wrong. That is a handy position to have if the elites frequently disagree with you.

As for masks and hand washing being helpful, see the other thread I started about BYU and the huge covid-19 spike in Utah County. There was an off-campus party-dance venue that pointedly refused to enforce masks and social distancing, though Provo passed a mandatory mask ordinance over the mayor's veto, because the city council saw a crisis coming. Now it has come. Expect the party venue to catch a legal two by four upside the head.

As for catching covid via eyes, there is some slight evidence that glasses seem to help a bit. Whether it is because of their blocking effect, or some other reason, or just uncorrelated coincidence has not been established.

I'm taller than average, and wonder if that also helps some. Besides being tall, I wear glasses, and always wear a mask when in a public building. Plus I only go to public buildings maybe once or twice a week. Infection is a game of statistics and probabilities. I suspect I've got my probabilities hammered down pretty low. Knock on wood, as they say.

Eyeglasses definitely help against COVID contagion; so too do preternatural height, pocket protectors, and bad hygiene.

They also have excellent contraceptive effects!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2020 06:17PM by Lot's Wife.

Because it would cause a paradigmatic shift. And nobody ever really wants to admit that they could be wrong!!!

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I Was An Evangelical Christian, And I Know Why
> Many Of Them Resist Logic About COVID-19.
> Christianity is based on one singular belief:
> Jesus raised from the dead. Once you believe in
> one miracle, the pathway is paved to believe in
> the next. Not all branches of faith go as far as
> handling snakes, but they’re all rooted in the
> one miracle that overrides our intellect. That’s
> why, as a young, idealistic Christian who only
> wanted to grow in my faith, I was prayed over to
> sever me from my intellectual and rational
> thinking.  
>
> This global pandemic has revealed there’s
> already a virus inside some American forms of
> belief — ones that believe God isn’t powerful
> enough to exist outside of gatherings or ones who
> believe this is in God’s plan so he can show his
> power. 
>
> This kind of spiritual terrorism is showing up on
> a national scale and, as in my own faith journey,
> only reason can get us out."
>
> https://www.huffpost.com/entry/evangelical-christi
> ans-covid-19-pandemic_n_5f5b9875c5b6b48507ffc791