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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 10:43PM

Let me begin by acknowledging that this Board does not belong to me and as such you, the owners, are free to do as you please. Secondly, a threat that I will no longer post is truly not a threat to your operation and would probably be applauded by some others.

I posted to a thread entitled, “If we threw out superstition would any religion survive?”. My comments were deleted. My first thought is that there must be users that have greater power than others over what is posted. My comments did not violate any of your written policies and if anything, the direction of the thread, after some of the original replies, went completely off the rails and appeared to actually be a violation of your rules. Ironically, those remained and mine was deleted.

I would appreciate some sort of explanation why my post was deleted. I felt that my post was factually accurate. I feel that some posters seem to have power over the board while others do not. If I’m mistaken, I would appreciate an explanation.

Since the day to day operation of the Board has changed it seems that a heavy hand has reigned and that deleted posts have moved from the status of being an exception to now being the rule.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 10:49PM

Stop trying to make yourself appear to be special.
I think I hold the record for number of deleted threads.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:04PM

Tip of the hat to the champion.

Sorry, but I would still like Admin to answer.

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Posted by: hujo ( )
Date: October 15, 2020 03:03PM

I'm coming up on ya dave ;p

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:08PM

Some facts are more useful than others.

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Posted by: Mordor, not logged in ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:24PM

Every regular or semi-regular, including me, has had any number of posts deleted for one reason or another. It happens. Only a small few cry censorship. Most of us simply accept it and move on.

The best one-liner I've delivered on RfM got deleted a few years ago as part of an entire thread. That stung, but I got over it.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:34PM

If a post earlier in the thread got deleted, then the entire sub-thread under it gets deleted as a side effect. That can cause a post to get deleted though there was no problem at all with the content.

Or sometimes the responses to a particular post are so inflammatory that the post gets deleted simply to cut off the responses.

I don't recall you as a poster who typically writes delete-worthy stuff, so it could well be something that has nothing to do with you. Or maybe you wandered into delete-worthy territory. Usually when I get deleted, I can figure out why. There's only been one post where I had not a clue what the cause was. I never asked why because I didn't think it really much mattered.

Actually, now that I think about it, there was recently a thread where I had made a long reply and the thread disappeared. I was puzzled by that. OP asked what happened to the thread, and it turned out that Tevia had accidentally deleted it, and undeleting an entire thread is arduous. Again, had nothing to do with me.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:47PM

Birdman, for what it's worth I sincerely doubt you (as opposed to me and many others) have ever intentionally been deleted. You are always moderate and thoughtful.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 13, 2020 11:51PM

Just be glad they're only deleting your posts!

I wrote that as an attempt at edgy humor, but what if something you said or wrote resulted in YOU being marked for deletion. I've read that such has happened, still does and likely always will...somewhere.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 01:37AM

I just went through that thread.

There are no posts from username Birdman....and no deleted posts at all, from ANY username, in that thread.


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 01:44AM

That makes sense. Birdman is not one to feel the Sword of Damocles.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 01:56AM

I hate like hell to be wrong about something like this and I appreciate your response however -. I actually responded to your post on that previously mentioned thread that was deleted. I posted my response and actually re-read it after it posted to make sure that I had not made any typo.

Not being as dexterous as I used to be or as Lot's Wife has stated in another thread, "I had a junior moment". There had been subsequent posts after your comments before I was able to post mine and by the way those posts have also disappeared. I did not use the tab to specifically reply to your post but my intent was to direct my comment to your post.

The gist of my reply was that be it Judaism, mormonism, or whatever all religions are grounded in superstition and I gave some facts in support of my thesis. That was all there was. I'm still confused as to why that would warrant the deletion.

I appreciate your efforts to get to the bottom of this matter. I also know that one of us is wrong - I hope it's you.

I also appreciate the other posters to this thread. It made me smile. I feel better about things. THANKS

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:10AM

I'm not sure if this happened to you, but over the last 24 or 36 hours I have composed some detailed posts and then hit "post message" only to have them disappear into the ether because the post to which I was replying had been stricken. 'Twas frustrating, but then BoJ and I create enough work for the admins as is.

From what you say now, I'm pretty confident no one intentionally zapped you. So you could probably let the matter drop or just blame Tevai for it, which is what I always do.

She's one slippery broad.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 01:31PM

Jeebus has more control over the network than you think.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:05AM

You may have hit the preview button instead of the post button. This shows you the post exactly as it will appear in the thread when posted, but does not actually post it.

Deleted posts, just like our church records, are not actually deleted, they are just rendered invisible to us. Admin can still see them.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:44AM

You could be right though I remember there being other posts as I previously mentioned that also disappeared.

If I'm wrong my condition may be serious. Are hallucinations associated with dementia? Is Santa Claus real? Am I being gaslighted? Is Tevai going to poison my ham sandwich?

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 10:48PM


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Posted by: Void K. Packer ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:39AM

As if there are not real problems in the world.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:49AM

Do I need to address the conditions of the world to justify my concerns on this Board? A tall order.

Though it might be good advice the next time you raise your voice to a friend.

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Posted by: Brother of Mahonri Moriancumer ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 05:11AM

It does feel like one or two members get special privileges. This board could do with wider political diversity for sure.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 08:39AM

Yup. You get to post right wing B.S. without getting deleted. This is a right wing board.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 01:00PM

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. If you speak out about mormons, you have supportive posts. If you speak of the greater problem of religions and their superstitions be prepared to be pilloried. Somehow religion is now political and your political philosophy is reflected in your thoughts about religion. So much for the separation of church and state.

I don't know if it's the President or a general political climate but religion, science, disease, discrimination, education, etc. have all been politicized. Why would the status of any American citizen be determined by skin color? If a person expresses rightwing sentiments you can immediately ascertain their position on all of these, to me, seemingly unrelated issues.

My concern, that promoted this thread, was specifically that issue though I admit I couched it in an obtuse manner to avoid the shit storm that would surely follow.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 02:38PM

As I have suggested before, ideology, religion, and superstition all blend into one another. That's why all of those topics are now political: a large number of people base their actions and thought on what are effectively systems of superstition.

I do not know but suspect that is why CZ allows more politics now. The critical thinking that undermines Mormonism and other specific religions applies, in times like these, to a range of political topics. Are we to use our brains to escape one cult just then to join another?

Logic is logic, facts are facts. At present a large proportion of the US populace, and a sizeable chunk of Europe as well, have seceded from reality and are operating from a faith-based position whose illogic they hate seeing exposed.

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 06:56PM

nothing until you've been deleted. Susan I/S somehow made it feel sexy even. :)

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: October 15, 2020 12:34AM

Oh my darlin' sd. After all these years together I STILL don't know what I am to do with you :) More years than I will admit to! You do love your spankings ;)

Sus I/S
Dom of Perdition

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 15, 2020 01:11AM

Uh oh. Now your phone's going to ring off the wall.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: October 14, 2020 07:37PM

I thought some of my posts were deleted, maybe a couple needed to be.

But what I believe happened was that I completed my post and instead of hitting "Post message" I hit "Next". Poof, it was gone, operator error or SFB.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 16, 2020 02:41AM

I hope that someone would still be interested enough in the thread to read and post a comment. I have a broader question than just censorship on this board. My question is at what point should propaganda be regulated? Hitler used the German peoples’ dissatisfaction with outcome of the World War I armistice to talk his way into power. He was a very effective speaker and also quite a liar. He misrepresented facts to stir up the populace. Should an effort have been made to censor his rhetoric? Just based upon historical facts most people would support such an idea. However, if Joseph Smith or Joe Doe the cleric claims there is a God and he can regularly talk with him and impart his wisdom, nobody seems concerned. Even if Joe or Joe makes gobs of money as a result, robs people of their livelihoods, gives them false hope for a price.

Is propaganda always propaganda. Is a lie always a lie? Is a deluded fool a liar if what he/she says can be proven to be untrue? How should the truth be measured and at what point should speech be censored?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 16, 2020 10:18AM

"Only I know the Truth!"

--Everybody connected to the Internet

"Lies are statements that I don't agree with!"


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: October 16, 2020 03:16PM

Birdman Wrote:
> I hope that someone would still be interested
> enough in the thread to read and post a comment.
> I have a broader question than just censorship on
> this board. My question is at what point should
> propaganda be regulated?

That's a great question, and I don't really have an answer. In college, I took a class about the limits on dissent. Maybe the best place to start is to ensure that people understand what the 1st Amendment means w/r/t protected speech and that there is a requirement that a state actor is involved in curtailing speech before we can address whether such speech *is* protected. Not all speech is, and no right, even fundamental ones, is absolute.

Propaganda. All we can do is push back on it, even if the propaganda seems to serve our interests. No. ESPECIALLY if it seems to serve our interests, because it does not serve the nation's interests if we ignore the plank in our own eyes.

The problem is that there is a deep-seated distrust of authority in this country. I don't think it's new, and I think it's healthy to always question the motives and legitimacy of authority. It's also important for authority to *respond* to people's questions. But there's a difference between questioning authority in order to hold it to account and the out-and-out baseless rejection of authority.

What is new is that it's easier for people to gather online and spread falsehoods, rumors, and plain old nuttiness. My youngest brother thinks the Earth is flat. He sent me a link to a video that I really, really tried to watch, but I couldn't. I love my brother, and I want to understand my brother, but man, he's nutters on this one.

Once he'd be The Nutter in Our Family Who Thinks The World Is Flat, and we'd consider him an outlier. Now he's one of a number of nutters who think the world is flat, and they have a megaphone. They are able to live in their nutter echo chamber of goofball conspiracy theories that includes chemtrails. The group reinforces the members. Are there more Flat-Earthers now than there were? I have no idea. What I do know is that they are able to make more noise. It's easier for them.

People have been going to Roswell and having their UFO/alien abduction get togethers before Google and YouTube. "The X-files" predates widespread internet use. Has widespread internet use made the UFO/alien abduction group larger? I don't know. Maybe that plus population growth has. I don't know. I nominate Brother of Jerry to conduct a study.

And then there's this awesome board. The whole point of this board is to provide a safe haven for people who have left TSCC. That's a *good* thing. I find support, help, and kindness here, and I was never a member. I thought about becoming a member, but I found this board first.


Information, both good and bad, can round the ROUND globe in a blink of an eye. The onus is on each of us to admit what we don't know and to test our assumptions. Vet information. Learn about what sources are legit. All of this is hard and time-consuming work, but it's a worthy endeavor.

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Posted by: Birdman ( )
Date: October 20, 2020 09:36AM

Do you really think that anyone really fact checks? Take me for example.I was a Mormon for years before I started fact checking. Though,fact checking saved me,it took too long for me to finally react even though I knew it was BS for years.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: October 19, 2020 04:06PM

I have problems of my replies disappearing.

My biggest problem is a group of posters who hijack every thread with their brickbat.

There is more o/t topics and useless discussion of politics and philosophy that has no bearing on recovery from mormonism.

My problem is that I thought that this place would help my recovery and it has not.

I am defeated and moving on.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 19, 2020 06:22PM

Recovery can be found in a lot of archived posts.

The current ones is more about loved ones, partial family members, and updates about church nonsense and the changes.

Mixed in is a lot of other off topic posts because some have posted her for decades possibly and see regulars on the board that they may have met in person or exchanged emails or knows.

Everyone's needs for recovery may be different. Of course posting to an anonymous board various issues you are struggling with is going to have mixed results.

I propose a qualified therapist to work through things or a trusting friend that listens well and less on an anonymous board that can only express words in the ether.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 19, 2020 07:09PM

To messygoop: Deletions occur if a post goes against a board rule in some way. Any direct replies to a deleted post will also disappear even if the reply itself is otherwise acceptable.

To get more focus on your own questions or comments you could try starting your own thread. That often gets more attention and specific comments.

If posters have been here a while and have worked through the familiar basics of questions and topics specific to Mormon beliefs and practices they may move on to more indirect subjects such as general religion and postmo life. I often say that pretty much everything relates to moism which is why we cover such a broad range of subjects.

Various topics help different people - some have family issues, others feel grief or joy at their discoveries or a bit of each. No one size fits all in this recovery business.

Have you tried reading other sections of the board such as exit stories and the posts by topic page? There is a lot of helpful material there. I hope that can be of some help.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2020 07:13PM by Nightingale.

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