I....I really liked the music. I'm atheist now but even still, I enjoyed some of the LDS tunes. Not for their messages or "how it made me feel". I genuinely liked the music. It was never my absolute favorite music to listen to but so often I hear people say, "The music sucked."

Just a few tunes I remember really enjoying for the sound of the music itself.

“Love One Another”
“Follow the Prophet”
“Because I Have Been Given Much”
“Scripture Power”
“If You Could Hie to Kolob”
“Called to Serve”
“Army of Helaman”
“Gethsemane”
“A Child’s Prayer”

Okay.

Soo I just realized most of these are Primary songs. They sure are catchy.

**Also, I am an 80's kid, full on trash, pop rock, bubblegum pop, and dance music are my jam. So, not sure what that says about my tastes in general.

Many of the composers of the melodies were serious about their efforts to provide emotionally or spiritually uplifting pieces.

The composer of many of the early Mormon tunes- Evan Stephens- was gay.

gay?? Interesting. Would be keen to know your evidence.

Enjoy:

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V28N04_119.pdf

If you need more, try http://www.connellodonovan.com/abom.html
and do a ^F (control key - F) and type in his name.

They date from all over the centuries, and are thus public domain. Many denominations have adapted them, such as the hymnal melody from Sebelius' "Finlandia." Hayden used his melody for the German national anthem for the second movement (poco adagio cantabile) in his Op 76 No 3 "Emperor" (or "Kaiser") string quartet.

This tranquil melody has been used for numerous hymns, such as "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken," and "See! The Streams of Living Water."

Our "America" is, of course, "God Save the Queen."

Check or look up the music notes to those LDS hymns you cherish, and give the source material a try. You might find yourself enjoying the music, free of the LDS connections.

Thank you for the suggestion! I just might do that!

I have been toying with the idea of attending church again after a full year since my shelf breaking has occurred. Do you think it'd be funny if anytime they sang hymns, I sang along with the words of the original songs the tunes were from?

I'm on this board as an ex-Christian Scientist, not ex-Mo. In studying LDS, I learned things that helped me sever my intellectual and emotional strings to Christian Science.

One of the things I did was jettison some CS hymn recordings I had. Too much emotional baggage. Another thing I did was start reading the Bible in modern translation, so the King James cadence and style did not trigger CS (mis)understandings.

Kentish (below): "My Country Tis of Thee" is also known as "America," distinguished from "America The Beautiful." Then there's Irving Berlin's "God Bless America."

caffiend: I didn't know, or didn't remember you were CS/nevermo. It is interesting, and I have long said, that it can be a lot easier to see parallels when they arise obliquely - in a softer way than in your face. Some people either don't want to hear criticism of their beliefs or don't get the points but come to see things differently, and more clearly, side-on, so to speak.

That's why reading widely is a great habit in general but can also challenge one's conclusions and beliefs and that is a good thing.

I didn't clue in fast enough to prevent myself from leaping into the Mormon font but eventually saw parallels to the JWs (which had been my first committed relationship with any particular faith group) and from there to others. I find it more difficult to explain now than I did immediately following my abrupt exit from the LDS but I know what I mean even if others don't get it exactly if I don't use specific examples.

It's something to do with it being easy to see the flaws in others but not our own, or something like that. A big part of it is how emotionally invested we can get in our faith beliefs. It's hard to let go if there's sentiment attached. I lost every single JW friend I had, for instance, the moment I left (they shun leave-takers and consider them "disfellowshipped" aka excommunicated). That can be a powerful deterrent that prevents members from leaving. Also, hard as it is for some to believe, you can feel great attachment to your favourite hymn or scripture or religious idea.

My friend's son is quasi-SC (sometimes in/sometimes out). He also is "mildly" bipolar. Either one or both can impact him negatively from time to time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2020 03:18PM by Nightingale.

In nursery school, we learned an old folk song: "Go Tell Aunt Rhody." It was the same tune as the Mormon hymn: "Lord Dismiss Us With Thy Blessing." It was on an old Burl Ives recond. We knew the Rhodie version long before we ever heard the Mormon hymn, and thought the hymn was hilarious. My brothers and I always sang the original words in church.

Go tell Aunt Rhody,
Go tell Aunt Rhody,
Go tell Aunt Rhody
The old gray goose is dead.

The one she's been saving
The one she's been saving
The one she's been saving
To make a feather bed.

She died in the millpond
Died in the mill pond
Died in the mill pond
From standing on her head.

The goslings are mourning...etc.
Because their mother's dead.

The old gander's weeping...etc.
Because his wife is dead.

By far our favorite hymn.

Isn't that My Country Tis of Thee rather than America? Non the less I agree. There is a gospel song that uses Finlandia music performed by Bill Gaither and Signature Sound and many hymn books include a hymn sung to Beethoven's Ode to Joy while music by Holst is used in my favorite English anthem I Vow to Thee My Country.

An anecdotal story on Mormon hymns. Some years ago I visited some friends who had active CofE family members from England visiting Utah. They had gone for the first time to an LDS sacrament meeting. I asked them what they thought and while they found many things to be different than what they were used to they said they did recognize a couple of hymns. They commented that while they recognized the hymns they had never heard them directed and sung in such a "stodgy and turgid way".

One must admire the British, in their use of 'turgid' outside of a sexual context.

Rule Britannia!!




(I adore the last night of Proms!)

I'm with you, Kentish. I Vow to Thee My Country is a wonderful tune! Like most of Holst, in fact.

At this year's very much curtailed Last Night of the Proms Britannia was almost sunk in a sea of so called pc but she arose, albeit in a somewhat subdued manner. She will be back next year hopefully astride the waves in all her hope and glory. 2012 presented perhaps, IMV, the best ever version of GSTQ.

The 2012 Proms is my favorite! Daniel Barenboim's 'amateur' Jewish/Muslim orchestra was brilliant except for the one embarrassing "blatt" during, I believe, Beethoven's 5th.

Not sure I am knowledgeable enough to notice what you call a "blatt". Just enjoy the music and for this expat events such as the Proms are maudlin reminders of "home". Today is one of those days and I have been on YT listening to various renditions of perhaps my favorite piece, Elgar's Nimrod. Plenty of great versions but I particularly like the version by singing group Amore performed a year or two ago at the Royal Albert Hall Festival of Remembrance. They performed as the drumhead altar was erected on which the book listing the names of all British fallen since the Great is placed.

It was during the 5th...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv2WJMVPQi8

It's a tiny mar... start around 22:40 and the 'blatt' is at 22:46.

But as Beethoven is reported to have said, “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.”

Wow. I didn't notice that when I watched the Proms that year.

It sounds like the musical equivalent of a fart and evoked the same facial expression from Barenboim. But he shut that down instantaneously!

Well, you are just a girl ...


You were probably busy tatting.

Watch it, Sunbeam.

HAHAHAHAHA! The look on his face.

Welp. That's enough high brow stuff for the year.

There's no shame in liking the music. I'm a nevermo but was brought up Anglican (in the UK) and I still love some of the tunes and even some of the poetic images in the words, although I've been an atheist for more than 40 years. Apologies to Dave The Atheist, but I'm even going to quote one to show you what I mean. There is one Anglican hymn of which I have forgotten everything except the following lines (and the first one is really only there to give context ;-)

"Nearer and nearer draws the time, the time that shall surely be,
When the Earth shall be filled with the glory of god as the waters cover the sea"

That last image, "as the waters cover the sea" still gets me and, IMHO if there were really anything in religion, that's how it would be...

Wishing everyone a wonderful weekend

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2020 01:13PM by Soft Machine.

I think we can agree that religion has instigated and inspired a great deal art that adorns our world.

Indeed. I'm rather selective, though. I've been to Florence, where there's a whole floor of "Madonna and Child"s. If I never see another Madonna And Child again, it will be too soon ;-)

All art is in overload in Florence. Probably why I prefer Sienna.

From the ever-trusty Wikipedia:

“God Is Working His Purpose Out" is an English Christian hymn. It was written in 1894 by Arthur Campbell Ainger as a tribute to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Edward White Benson. The original music for the hymn was written at the same time by Millicent D. Kingham but a number of other pieces of music have been used for the hymn in recent times.”


“In 1894, Ainger was a Master at Eton College, where he had a reputation of being a fair teacher and had the respect of his pupils for a reasonable approach to discipline at the school. As the son of a Vicar, he had written a number of songs and hymns for the school in English and in Latin. Ainger wrote "God Is Working His Purpose Out" as a tribute to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Edward White Benson, who was a former Master at Rugby School and headmaster at Wellington College. It was also written as a hymn for the boys of Eton. The hymn was first published in a leaflet with a tune composed by Kingham titled "Benson.”


"God Is Working His Purpose Out" was then published nationwide in the Church of England's "Church Missionary Hymn Book". It also started to be published within public school hymnals, however when it was published in "Public School Hymn Book" the tune was changed from "Benson" to a newly commissioned tune titled "Alveston". Some modern hymn books also do not use "Benson" as the tune, instead using "Purpose", written by Martin Shaw in 1953, although Common Praise (the successor to Hymns Ancient and Modern) continues to do so.”


Scripture (KJV): Habakkuk 2:24

“For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.”


Hymn:

God is working his purpose out as year succeeds to year:
God is working his purpose out, and the time is drawing near;
nearer and nearer draws the time the time that shall surely be,
when the earth shall be filled with the glory of God
as the waters cover the sea.

From farthest east to farthest west, where human feet have trod,
by the voice of many messengers goes forth the voice of God:
'Give ear to me, you continents, you islands give ear to me,
that earth may be filled with the glory of God,
as the waters cover the sea.'

Let us go forth in the strength of God, with the banner of Christ unfurled,
that the light of the glorious gospel of truth may shine throughout the world:
let us all fight with sorrow and sin, to set their captives free,
that earth may be filled with the glory of God,
as the waters cover the sea.

All that we do can have no worth, unless God bless the deed;
vainly we hope for the harvest-tide, till God gives life to the seed;
yet nearer and nearer draws the time, the time that shall surely be,
when the earth shall be filled with the glory of God
as the waters cover the sea.

-----

As a young child, "church music" to me sounded like the following, which was on the radio every Sunday at noon, just as Mom was stirring the gravy for our roast beef and yorkies. Hearing it instantly takes me back to the mingling of mouthwatering scents and amazing sound:


Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring (Bach):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPeVIuRjUi4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6OgZCCoXWc



Then, there's the Church of Andre Rieu (Beethoven):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg3sEE18WsE



I have to say I didn't find much inspiration in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, musical or otherwise, but I can understand if others did/do.

What's the one...Sting riffed on it in "O My God"

The fat man in his garden
The thin man at his gate
My God, You must be sleeping
Wake up, it's much too late


I think there's hymn that says something similar, but says that's how god wants it. Ordered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2020 12:05AM by Beth.

Here it is:

"All Things Bright and Beautiful"

The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2020 12:11AM by Beth.

I don't have a problem with the melodies, but the lyrics of LDS hymns are something else. I have to be carefull because they trigger a lot of anger and negativity.

As with all things Mormon, most of the hymns are co-opted from other those of other religions, and folk tunes. "If I could Hie to Kolob" is the tune from Irish folksong "The Star of County Down" and is about a girl that a guy meets along a path. The ones written by Mormons carry "the message," the message that I don't happen to buy into--Helaman, the LDS prophet, etc.

when I was younger and in orchestra class, I got the sheet music for the folk song "If you could hie to Kolob" is based on. I liked the song enough that I memorized how to play it on the cello. I like to think that if I could get my hands on a cello and take a refresher class, I might be able to play it and a few other songs from memory.

There's nothing wrong with liking the music the hymns are based on, although my beef with Mormon hymns is how the hymns are typically sung and performed. I've ranted on here before about a time someone else played "If you could hie to Kolob" on a cello in a singles ward, but they played it in a key suited to a violin part (the deeper sound of the cello is what makes it such a beautiful sounding instrument. Trying to make a cello sound like a violin just makes the music sound. . . wrong somehow. Then again, I am biased to the sound of the cello).

How do you make a cello sound like a violin?

Play really high and miss a lot of notes.

Anziano Young Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you make a cello sound like a violin?
>
> Play really high and miss a lot of notes.

I couldn't come up with a better summary than that.

I went to Primary in the 1950s. Never heard of any of the above listed songs. Popcorn, yes.

I went to Primary in the 1950s, and I don't recall seeing you there! Trick question to suss you out: Did Jesus want you for a sunbeam?

I once sang "go tell Aunt Rhody the old gray goose is dead" as the last line of "Lord Dismiss Us with Thy Blessing" and the family in the row in front of me couldn't stop laughing all the way through the closing prayer.

As a kid, one Sunday during sacrament meeting, I was so bored that I picked up the hymnal and thumbed through it page by page. It was there I discovered a hymn called "O'er Gloomy Hills of Darkness". I thought it had some very interesting lyrics.

From the article "Changes in LDS Hymns: Implications and Opportunities" by Douglas Campbell -

"O'er Gloomy Hills of Darkness" hymn, linked the African Negro, the American Indian, and barbarians: "Let the Indian and the Negro,/ Let the rude barbarian see/ That divine and glorious conquest/ Once obtained on Calvary." This hymn was not retained in the 1985 hymnal.

Jaxson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the article "Changes in LDS Hymns: Implications and Opportunities" by Douglas Campbell -

Interesting read.

Link - https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V28N03_79.pdf

I am not musically sophisticated. All I know is that I enjoyed singing the songs. I don't have a great voice, but I enjoy singing. And singing is the only thing I miss about the church.
I frequently find myself humming or singing them.