https://www.rawstory.com/2020/10/if-you-have-a-stroke-we-cant-help-you-utah-hospital-says-after-inundated-with-19/

There were 1765 new COVID-19 cases announced in Utah on Sunday and often numbers on Sundays aren’t always reported if the staff isn’t available. It isn’t just the University of Utah Health that is rationing care either. The Salt Lake Tribune reported that a group of administrators in the state asked the governor about their list of “criteria they propose doctors should use if they are forced to decide which patients can stay in overcrowded intensive care units.”

"criteria they propose doctors should use if they are forced to decide which patients can stay in overcrowded intensive care units.”

Nightmare scenario, all around.

I wish more people would take this seriously. I guess they need bodies piling up in the streets first.

Maybe they need to see the refrigerated semis parked out in front of hospitals, like they had in NYC. Or maybe they need to see their grandma or grandpa denied care, as certain patients were denied care in Italy. Maybe then they will get it.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe they need to see the refrigerated semis
> parked out in front of hospitals, like they had in
> NYC. Or maybe they need to see their grandma or
> grandpa denied care, as certain patients were
> denied care in Italy. Maybe then they will get it.


Sadly, and scarily, I read a lot online to indicate that large numbers of people do not believe this actually happened. "Fake News". If I never hear that term again in my life, it will be too soon.

Sure, check your sources. But please, don't be an ostrich.

Sounds like it's past time to break out the Magical Priesthood Power and Holy Salad Dressing, mutter some Sacred Jargon in that Special Pious Voice and, presto, cure everyone.

It's as if they don't believe in the power of the holy priestcraft.

This could be the deal breaker for many previous TBM'S who are questioning. Hopefully.

Could the color of skin be a criterion?

It IS Utah, after all...


Or maybe it could be purity of character?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2020 05:39PM by elderolddog.

The Gov gets to make the criteria. I hope he'll be prayerful about it.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could the color of skin be a criterion?

It is certainly to be hoped that this would NOT be the case. Please god. Or who/what ever...

Well, it's Utah, and they know who the righteous were in the Pre-Existence!

Aren't they the same thing? The BoM says yes!

Idaho has similar problems in some communities and the governor has just announced a return to stage 3 Covid measures. Those measures are about as toothless as the governor so I do not see the situation improving any time soon. Meanwhile, Washington appears to have moved on to more important issues. Who even needs a healthcare plan if you are just going to leave people to die.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile,
> Washington appears to have moved on to more
> important issues. Who even needs a healthcare
> plan if you are just going to leave people to die.

It's a dire situation, for sure. We're freaking here with our two largest provinces (Ontario and Quebec) racking up 1000+ new cases/day recently. When I see the numbers from down south, it seems literally unbelievable.

Please, everybody, keep current with reliable info and stay safe.

My wife and I are both old enough to recognize quite clearly the inevitability of death but the thought of her in the situations we are hearing about is off the chart scary.

> Who even needs a healthcare
> plan if you are just going
> to leave people to die.


Maybe that's the best plan they can put forward, given the circumstances? "We'll treat anyone, except for those who really need it!"

It's horrible. Some of my relatives that have really big mormon families are not social distancing at all. They are hanging out at grandmas house, they are having birthday parties with ques of below average kids at the table. Covid is spreading with my relatives (and some are in their 70s) and these are the ones who bristle at every suggestion of precaution because the constitution is hanging by a thread or whatever bs the tradition is teaching.

The real issue I fear is this idea of being the "chosen people." Having the "one and only true Gospel" makes folks a little arrogant (and that's an understatement). Utah is going to learn a lesson and it aint going to be pretty.

Nobody else has said it yet on this thread so I'll say it now.

Death cult.

Yeah. And check out the Trump train and anti mask protest in St. George on Saturday. This is with Utah cases skyrocketing and St. George's hospital announcing Thursday that they at ICU capacity. Now, some of these same morons are promoting "Don't get the Vaccine" theories. Utah has a speshul kind of Stupid.

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2020/10/24/mgk-from-tremonton-to-st-george-trump-train-rolls-into-utah/#.X5dW9IhTnIU

If you survive, you can make good money selling blood plasma with antibodies. If you don’t, you didn’t need the money anyway.

Headline : "Florida residents burn masks"

This reminds me of triage training that I received in my involvement with the CERT (Community Emergency Response Teams) organization. For those who aren't familiar with CERT, it's a part of FEMAs national emergency response system and the training is typically given to community members at their local fire department, by the fire department personnel, with grants to pay for this community training from the the federal government. These programs teach some hard realities that should be followed by citizens and that government employees are trained to go by in their rescue work.

In an emergency scene where there is a lack of resources enough to save everyone, there are established procedures whether or not the governor or someone else tells you what to do. It's always the same when it comes to priorities. Each living person is put in to one of three categories. These are "minor injury", "major injury" and "in need of immediate help to prevent death" (paraphrasing here since I can't remember what those categories are called officially). My memory may be less than perfect here, but I'll try to express what I remember from that training. The dead are pulled aside in to whatever sequestered area can be found to put them in (a makeshift morgue). Those with minor injuries are treated last. Those that are likely to recover if (and only if) they receive immediate treatment are treated first. But the critically wounded who are less likely to survive in any event are treated only after others receive their life-saving treatment and they may die waiting for the treatment of those other individuals to be complete as they die. Basically, if you are the triage person, you have to decide who lives and who dies, based on maximizing the number of people who are most likely to ultimately survive. This means making a conscious decision about another person's survival (perhaps the survival of many people), possibly while they see you do it and they may even see that you have complety abandoned them (if necessary) and they may even be able to figure out why as they see you ignore their life-threatening critical life-saving needs. It made me uncomfortable to be taught this by a trained fireman because I realized that his job was to conciously abandon some people if necessary by a concious choice, to save others. That is the right course of action, but an uncomfortable one to process conciously as a plan of action, should the need arise. There are probably procedures for medical professionals to go by for legal CYA. But the idea is always the same in any event. This isn't just a logical choice. It's taught by FEMA and practiced as policy.

As a non-paid person who encounters an emergency situation before the professional rescuers arrive, you can do your best to achieve these same goals and there are 'good Samaritan laws' that protect you from any legal liability that might otherwise result if your goal was to help others as a volunteer. Some scenarios for the average person who could end in up in this situation might be as a healthy survivor of a plane crash in the wilderness, or surviving and without significant injury, the explosion of a building, and in critical minutes before the fire department arrives. Any one of us could be put in to that situation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2020 01:28AM by azsteve.

Good article on the numbers.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated/?fbclid=IwAR3PTsn6X8dyohvddFDY1n-aCiR9NYzfbJ7PRqS4xVxHDNQCYMTpNH8FC8c

Early on in this pandemic, leaders in the disability rights movement became very concerned when it became clear that able-bodied people would receive care over disabled people when these choices had to be made. While Federal guidelines do not permit this, who is to stop hospitals from putting it in to practice once these kinds of decisions have to be made. And dear leader says we're "turning a corner?"

I'll repeat what I said in response to Maccaromney's comments earlier on this thread. Death cult!

"Under the criteria, which would require Herbert’s approval, patients who are getting worse despite receiving intensive care would be moved out first. In the event that two patients' conditions are equal, the young get priority over the old, since older patients are more likely to die."

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/

I remember in Italy, there was an age cut off for scarce ventilators. Every patient received care, but you had to be below a certain age to get a ventilator. And now Italy is starting to spike again.

Not to worry, impeached dear leader said on Monday that the worsening corona virus outbreak in the U.S. is a "Fake News Media Conspiracy" and will all go away after the election day.

Can't imagine why anyone would be worried. /s

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/26/coronavirus-trump-claims-the-worsening-us-outbreak-is-a-fake-news-media-conspiracy-even-as-hospitalizations-rise.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2020 12:00PM by eternal1.

Meanwhile, Florida residents are protesting "mask tyranny?"

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/10/26/1989758/-Florida-residents-burn-masks-as-COVID-19-cases-increase-statewide?detail=emaildkre

I'll say it again.

Death cult!

One of the really infuriating parts of this is Me with asthma and in the older generation, or my boyfriend even older than me with heart problems, will be in the category where if we got it and were on the bad side we could possibly be denied care.

Us who wear a mask everywhere. Stay 6 feet away from everyone and only go out when absolutely needed.

Denied care because there is someone younger that did not take this seriously and never wore a mask and went out parting with all their friends for the weekend. Someone who rationalized it with, I am young and even if I get it will be mild and I will get over it easily.

This really sucks all the way around.

Well said. And this trend will continue. More and more it is very difficult to like most Americans.

The amazing thing about the president's willingness to let the pandemic go unchecked--other than the stupidity of that given that the elderly are one of his biggest political constituencies--is the fact that he thinks people over 65 don't matter to young people. It ignores the role the elderly play in the lives of their children and their grandchildren, the sometimes overt and sometimes subtle center of emotional gravity they comprise.

It's beyond cruel; it's inhuman.

this appears to be an effort instigated by medical directors & their attorneys to prevent lawsuits initiated by those (including surviving family members) that weren't treated to the best of medical standards.


> a preemptive defense <



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2020 03:01PM by GNPE.

I am very sad. I saw this coming, when it happened to Italy, and when I witnessed the attitude of our Mormon neighbors and their political/religious leaders. Whenever I see someone not wearing a mask, I get horrible visions of a dark (though brief) future, and I hate these people for perpetuating the spread of the pandemic.

If one more group of unmasked Mormons rings our doorbell and brings us home made goodies, I just might scream at them to stop trying to contaminate us. My little grandchildren gobble up the treats right then and there, on the doorstep. Accosting children with disease along with the cultism is doubly low! It's like germ warfare, on top of the brainwashing. Evil.

I'm 77 year old, at risk, exmormon, Dem. in Salt Lake. It will be ironic that the judgement of the value of my existence, and the decision whether I deserve to live or die might be in the hands of Mormon Trumpers.

Maybe Joseph Smith will be judging at the right hand of Christ, after all, in spirit, using the criteria of:

Age
Health
Value (males more valuable than females)
Occupation (The President gets 7 doctors, a private hospital wing, etc)
Level of rank in the Mormon cult (Mormon GA families have more clout)

The ones who contaminate us will not save us.

But--they will enjoy the MONEY that we leave behind.

What a sad commentary on the current human condition, and on some of our leaders.

Over 100,000 American deaths could have been prevented by simply following the global advice of DOCTORS--proven to mitigate the spread of the disease, distancing, wearing masks of paper and cloth, and washing hands with cheap soap. Easy, simple respect and consideration of others.

Where's the love?

I am right there with you. If I were you I would put a big nasty note on the door and don't answer it. I live in an area where almost everyone wears masks but I still will not let anyone stand on my doorstep. And if I don't know them, I don't answer period. It is just not worth the risk.

I agree with Susan. I would put a note on your door in a large font asking unmasked people to leave your property and for no one to leave treats. No one should be calling on you unless they are invited and expected guests. I'm really shocked that people would do that given your age. I leave my neighbor in her 80s (who has COPD) strictly alone. She has family who check in on her regularly.

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am very sad. I saw this coming, when it happened
> to Italy, and when I witnessed the attitude of our
> Mormon neighbors and their political/religious
> leaders. Whenever I see someone not wearing a
> mask, I get horrible visions of a dark (though
> brief) future, and I hate these people for
> perpetuating the spread of the pandemic.
>
> If one more group of unmasked Mormons rings our
> doorbell and brings us home made goodies, I just
> might scream at them to stop trying to contaminate
> us. My little grandchildren gobble up the treats
> right then and there, on the doorstep. Accosting
> children with disease along with the cultism is
> doubly low! It's like germ warfare, on top of the
> brainwashing. Evil.
>
> I'm 77 year old, at risk, exmormon, Dem. in Salt
> Lake. It will be ironic that the judgement of the
> value of my existence, and the decision whether I
> deserve to live or die might be in the hands of
> Mormon Trumpers.
>
> Maybe Joseph Smith will be judging at the right
> hand of Christ, after all, in spirit, using the
> criteria of:
>
> Age
> Health
> Value (males more valuable than females)
> Occupation (The President gets 7 doctors, a
> private hospital wing, etc)
> Level of rank in the Mormon cult (Mormon GA
> families have more clout)
>
> The ones who contaminate us will not save us.
>
> But--they will enjoy the MONEY that we leave
> behind.
>
> What a sad commentary on the current human
> condition, and on some of our leaders.
>
> Over 100,000 American deaths could have been
> prevented by simply following the global advice of
> DOCTORS--proven to mitigate the spread of the
> disease, distancing, wearing masks of paper and
> cloth, and washing hands with cheap soap. Easy,
> simple respect and consideration of others.
>
> Where's the love?

Where did the 100,000 number come from?

Utah does not have death panels!!!

Utah like most states and hospitals should have 'contingency plans' if things get to the point where patients overcome the medical resources!

I would expect all major medical facilities to have these plans.

this ain't over yet;

contingency plans sound like a good idea, but can you document that Any of them provided plans for our current situation?


Mormons life in their Bubbles covers a lot of territory...

New milestone in Utah - over 1,500 cases today, a day ahead of our usual Thursday spike (can't wait to see what Thursday will bring) and the 7 day running average is now above 1,500 as well.

Yep, the stone rolling forth and filling the whole earth. The Mormons thought that prophecy was all about them. D'oh!

A theme expressed a lot here in SoCal, between 2pm & 6pm, is:


"Look how many people aren't catching Covid-19!

"It's a way bigger percentage!!!"

Can dogs catch COVID?

How about really mean dogs?

Feral dogs are home free

That hardly sounds fair.

It's by choice!

Just stay out of the suburbs, where white and delightsome SAHMs are armed to the teeth and prepared to protect their fire hydrants from unwanted showers.

The bottom line is your health is your responsibility. Just because others aren’t careful doesn’t mean you don’t have to be. Social distance, wear a mask when you are around people, wash your hands and don’t touch your face. Like everything else society is divided and argumentative about this. Lot’s of distrust and noise. COVID19 is real. You don’t want it. Take the appropriate precautions and stay healthy.

Yes, but sadly our health depends on others doing the same, especially wearing masks.

The bottom line pandemics is your health is everyone's responsibility.

Utah had its traditional Thursday spike today, but it was the first time in 4 weeks that Utah did not set a personal best in highest cases per day. It "only" had 18 hundred and change. Last week's record was just shy of 2,000.

The 7 day running average for this week probably will be a record high for the state.

We are still on a roll. A friend of mine was infected, and has a suppressed immune system from rheumitoid arthritis treatment. A week in, and so far, so good, much to everyone's surprise.

The "Thursday spike" came today (Friday).

2,300 cases (a tad under at the moment, but they usually add a few dozen cases after 1 pm). I was thinking we would break 2,000 soon. That turned out to be understatement. We blew right past 2K.

Rounding the corner, we are.

I just got an emergency notification on my phone and TV that masks are required in public in all "high transmission areas" in Utah, by public health order. Social gatherings limited to 10 people. Almost all Utah counties are classified as high transmission areas at the moment.

Apparently 2,300 got the attention of the powers that be.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently 2,300 got the attention of the powers
> that be.

The prophets?

I think they were already on board. The gov had been strongly resisting a mask mandate, which the state epidemiologist had been requesting. The guv finally conceded that we need to do something.

Meanwhile, there have been protesters in front of the State Epidemiologist's residence for all this week. She is not amused, and neither is Governor Herbert, who told them, albeit more diplomatically, to knock it the **** off. If they want to picket elected officials, fine, but leave state employees alone, especially at home.

What are people protesting? Wearing masks?

Bingo. One of the protest placards read "It's OK to admit you were wrong". I presume that means it is ok to admit covid doesn't even exist.

I stand all amazed at some people's ability to deny reality.

Headline : "Fauci Was Right. Again. US Cases Top 100K In a Day."

still silence from Russ & the afossils?

has Russ been seen in public lately? we KNOW how he dotes on PR / public appearances? How about the ward he resides in?

It wouldn't shock me if the GAs, the attorneys & the accountants are in / heading for sealed & secret bunkers, Covid is that serious, folks.

Why would any of them go out? They're all elderly, some *very* elderly. I wouldn't go out either if I were them. You can order pretty much anything online these days and have it delivered right to your doorstep.

Criteria: tatoos and multiple ear piercings get you sent to back of the line in UT.