If someone here is into linguistics, perhaps you can answer.

I have encountered a guy who says the following:
============================================
all the stories in the bible originate from african philosophy and etymology. Jewish language is made from african consonants. Most Christians have never broken down the etymologies of the names on the bible . The symbolism in the bible is the only way to decipher the bible ,Quran, torah. African linguistics is the best tool to use to see what the bibles words actually mean. All abrahamic religions are speaking afro-asiatic languages and all of abrahamic religions cant truly show the origins of any of the words . In my studies I found that nigeria is the home of most abrahamic, sumerian and Egyptian knowledge. Nigerian languages are the most ancient languages that hold the understanding and origins of most words we speak now , including in english,spanish and Latin. Africas development of words span over 300,000 years. When the philosophy was kept in africa , Africa thrived . But once egyptian started to document africas philosophy on hieroglyphics asiatics could steal it as tomb raiders, and claim africas knowledge in the form of the bible, Quran. For example the first so called biblical king of the jews was saul. Saul is not a name , saul comes from

Saul became the first King of Israel
Originate=asali(hau)
Asal=origin,source(Somali),
Nature=asili/tabia(swahili)
Isha=source(som)
============================================

His last reply to me was
============================================
here's a link . Their views are from their research and independent from mine. Yet they came to the same conclusion.

There's more links in Google but this is the best one I could show you. Or you can Google Igbo Yoruba with Sumerian or Egyptian.

https://igbodefender.com/2019/09/23/book-claims-igbos-and-yorubas-migrated-from-egypt/
============================================


~~~~iceman9090

The first thing that leaped out at me as I was reading your post is the absence of click sounds/letters in Semitic languages.

The beginnings of African languages are click languages, and the distinct "click" sounds have persisted (in at least many African languages) into contemporary times. If you've ever seen the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" (which was a very long-running hit on the "art circuit" a few decades ago) you have heard the "click" sounds (three or more of them) from ancient to modern times.

Trevor Noah (born and raised in South Africa) speaks Xhosa (his mother was Xhosa), and there are videos of him on YouTube demonstrating his native-born expertise. (If you want to hear what amounts to a spectrum of ancient click languages, which have existed since at least near the beginnings of humankind, go to YouTube and search for "click languages," particularly: Khoi, San, or KhoiSan. These languages are still spoken today, as regular daily languages of ordinary life.)

Given the historical persistence of click languages, it seems logical to me that if Semitic languages were based on those roots, clicks would have been included in Hebrew (or in Hebrew's earliest forms).

(What Hebrew does have is a "clearing the throat" letter, designated as "ch" in English transliteration, that can be problematic when someone is learning Hebrew, especially in the beginning, since it effectively equals a sound your non-Semitic parents would have been unhappy with if you had "said" it when you were a toddler.)

I have never heard Nigeria (on the western coast of Africa) mentioned as a source of Semitic languages or knowledge. (Ethiopia, on the other hand, on the EASTERN side of the African continent, MAYBE--since there are LOTS of Ethiopian Jews, both those who have immigrated to Israel and those who are still living in eastern Africa.)

So far as northern Africa is concerned, there was plenty of cultural mixing going on, back to and including ancient times, because of the geographical realities of the countries which bordered the Mediterranean (they were all, in a sense, "neighbors" to each other), and also the different histories of the peoples involved (which very much included Jews). On a practical level, Jewish scholars who spoke Arabic were preeminent, since the leading font of knowledge at that time was concentrated in the Arabic-speaking world.

If you Google "what is the oldest language in the world, the answer is "Tamil" (from the Indian sub-continent). They say that Tamil goes back at least 5,000 years, but the "click languages" of Africa go back to far, far, earlier times than THAT. (I don't know why Google doesn't recognize the click languages, since they did begin sometime in the very early history of human beings, and especially since they continued as active living languages, and are still being spoken as languages of daily life today.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2020 11:14PM by Tevai.

Tevai Wrote:
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I have seen Trevor Noah on TV. They seem to show I every night in Canada and he talks about politics and such.

That clicking sound they make seems like a bizarre thing to do. It is quite unique. I wonder why they have chosen to insert that into their language.


However, according to the link:
[b]Talitha Cumi (found at Mark 5:41) means “Nta lite kuo ume”
Talitha Cumi is a Hebrew or Aramaic phrase which means “little child wake up and start breathing”.
The equivalent Igbo words or ancient Cushitic words that means the same thing is “Nta lite kuo ume”.
The equivalent Yoruba words or ancient Egyptian words that means the same thing is “Ndan dide kio mi”.

And it gives a bunch of other examples.
I am wondering, is it accurate? Is it coincidence that Talitha Cumi sounds similar to “Nta lite kuo ume”

Mark 5:41 KING JAMES VERSION
And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

Another source:
https://www.gotquestions.org/talitha-cumi.html


~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
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> That clicking sound they make seems like a bizarre
> thing to do. It is quite unique. I wonder why they
> have chosen to insert that into their language.


The clicks (which are consonants) are usually sounds made by a person's tongue against different parts of that person's mouth--not unlike the different voiced sounds in any language (except that most global languages spoken today no longer use clicks). Xhosa has 18 different clicks, though three of these clicks predominate.

Thanks to North American history, at least one of the clicks in the click languages is something every North American I ever met can do instantly: it is the "giddy-up" sound a rider makes to a horse they are urging to go forward.

Another of the clicks is a sound most any toddler can easily do: press your moist tongue against the roof of your mouth, then (with your mouth open) very quickly and somewhat forcefully retract your tongue away from the roof of your mouth.

The real problem for second-language learners is when a click sound is in the MIDDLE of a word!

Beginning a word with a click is usually no particular problem (because the click, a consonant, is almost always followed by a vowel), and ending a word with a click can be only a little difficult (depending on the word).

It is the "click in the middle of [a word]" that is dastardly difficult for us non-native speakers to voice smoothly and properly!!

I have instructional recordings and, even when I am most diligently trying my hardest, I still can't click most words properly. Hearing me, any native speaker would know in a micro-second that the click language I was TRYING to speak is at least a second language to me!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2020 05:20PM by Tevai.

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, according to the link:
> Talitha Cumi (found at Mark 5:41) means “Nta
> lite kuo ume”
> Talitha Cumi is a Hebrew or Aramaic phrase which
> means “little child wake up and start
> breathing”.
> The equivalent Igbo words or ancient Cushitic
> words that means the same thing is “Nta lite kuo
> ume”.
> The equivalent Yoruba words or ancient Egyptian
> words that means the same thing is “Ndan dide
> kio mi”.
>
> And it gives a bunch of other examples.
> I am wondering, is it accurate? Is it coincidence
> that Talitha Cumi sounds similar to “Nta lite
> kuo ume”
>
> Mark 5:41 KING JAMES VERSION
> And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto
> her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted,
> Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.
>
> Another source:
> https://www.gotquestions.org/talitha-cumi.html
>
>
> ~~~~iceman9090

I am assuming that the original language(s) being referred to is Aramaic (with maybe some Hebrew?--or some ancient Latin or ancient Greek?).

If the language being referred to is Aramaic, I assume that the Aramaic was written in Hebrew letters. If so, those particular letters of the Hebrew aleph-bet (I don't know the Aramaic term) would be essential to understanding the underlying, or related, message.

Hebrew words are generally written with a three [Hebrew letter] "root," and that root is central to understanding the "message" of the word. My knowledge here is extremely rudimentary, but someone schooled in ancient Hebrew or in Aramaic (which, logically, also probably operates on the "three letter root" system), would be able to understand if [this] meant, or refers to, in some way, [that].

These word "roots" are far more central to in-depth understanding of the intended message than are the voiced sounds (the actual alphabet letters being used).

Tevai, this is some crazy shit and not worth your time. The two sources we have been offered are not published and not even named. The first source mentions a book, but I cannot see any references to it in Googleland. And that article also claims that Igbo and Japanese share vocabulary, so now we are evaluating the canard that three fundamentally different language families are in fact the same despite the linguistic and genetic evidence that they are not.



----------------
> I am assuming that the original language(s) being
> referred to is Aramaic (with maybe some
> Hebrew?--or some ancient Latin or ancient
> Greek?).

If you had Latin-Greek, we are now adding Indo-European--a fourth family--to the mix. Iceman's source is urging us to accept that against all evidence at least three distinct language families and religious traditions stem from the Niger-Congonese family. And that source offers no names, analysis, or publications to back that up.

It's a fairy tale.

1. Google Nana Banchie Darkwah

2. https://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref//igbo/westafricanorigin.htm
particularly note the sources listed in their footnotes.

I remain completely unconvinced.

Okay, I read that.

I note first that it does NOT support what Iceman indicates. Why? Because it is a linguistic argument and not a religious one. Igbo religion does not resemble Sumerian or Canaanite/Hebrew religion.

Second, is it likely that Igbo is the ancestoer of all languages? The idea of a super family is not new; this is just a variant of ideas that more reputable scholars have, to considerable controversy, mooted in the past. It is all still speculation, and the lists of common vocabulary or phonemes can be matched by the advocates of Dene-Caucasian and many other proposed super families.

But does it make any sense that Igbo was the mother tongue? Recall that prehistorical languages evolved very fast, much faster than modern tongues with written records like the Confucian classics or the KJ Bible that people continue to read for centuries or even millennia. In fact, the oldest established family of languages is proto-Indo-European, dating to about 7,000 years ago. Since HSS has not changed significantly for hundreds of thousands of years, the odds that a language started in Nigeria and then spread across Eurasia and then turned back (in the form of Indo-European among others) and then into India and Europe and still resembled the ancestral language are exiguous, for that would require that the ancestral language remained constant for vastly longer than any evidence suggests is possible.

Even the articles you produce speak of a proto-proto-Igbo. But if languages only exist in any recognizable form for 10,000 years maximum, then we are really discussing a tongue that must be prefixed with at least ten "protos" and very possibly thirty. Are we really to believe that vocabulary and religious ideas stayed constant for between 100,000 and 300,000 years?

The capacity to speak almost certainly arose in Africa as part of the HSS portfolio of skills (although it may well have arisen in early hominids and could conceivably have been human for one or two million years). But even if we choose the most charitable (for the theory) date and say the dispersal of humans to 100,0000 years ago, there is no way that modern Igbo resembles that ancient tongue in any measurable way.

Oh, I agree. It is hard to take seriously a supposed scholarly article that uses Sitchin as a reference. It appears to me that they are cherry picking data to support a preconceived idea namely that the bible stories all originated in Africa - see my first point above.

I know we are on the same page. I just wanted to reply to the specific documents, which are themselves much better than the originals to which we were referred.

[|] Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Google Nana Banchie Darkwah
>
> 2.
> https://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref//igbo/westafrica
> norigin.htm
> particularly note the sources listed in their
> footnotes.
>
> I remain completely unconvinced.


Nana Banchie Darkwah?
He has written a book called
The Africans wrote the Bible.

I have seen that sort of claim made by another culture as well. The africans aren’t along on this one.
It’s called cultural appropriation.

I guess it happens because their (african) ancestors have thrown their own religion into the garbage a long time ago and became christian. The option of going back is not available so some people try to find reasons to claim that christiaity/judaism was their ancestors religion all along and that the jews pirated the african religion.
It also looks like african-americans are highly religious and also tend to be on the poor side. It brings their community together.

I can’t say much about Dr. Atkinson’s research.

I did notice that the page you provided says this:
------------------------------------------------
Equally compelling is the discovery of an Early, Middle and Late Stone Age Homo Erectus (the ancestor of Homo Sapiens Sapiens or Modern Man) habitation in Ugwuele, Isuikwuato, Abia State in Igbo land in the early seventies by a team of archaeologists from the University of Nigeria, Nsukka[3]. This adds tons of weight to an Igbo origin of the ‘Out of Africa’ migrations of Early Man; but to also an Igbo origin of human language and culture; while the Igbo Ukwu inscriptions backed up by the mythologies and written records of the Egyptians, Sumerians, Dravidians, Hebrews and Kwa peoples of Nigeria lend credence to a Post-Deluge Kwa-Igbo origin of civilization[4].
------------------------------------------------

Finding fossils is nice but it doesn’t tell us about their language. It would be like claiming that some european developed the steam engine and steam locomotive, therefore, this invention ‘s origin is africa since that is where the oldest humanoid fossils are.

~~~~iceman9090

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am assuming that the original language(s) being
> referred to is Aramaic (with maybe some
> Hebrew?--or some ancient Latin or ancient
> Greek?).
>
> If the language being referred to is Aramaic, I
> assume that the Aramaic was written in Hebrew
> letters. If so, those particular letters of the
> Hebrew aleph-bet (I don't know the Aramaic term)
> would be essential to understanding the
> underlying, or related, message.
>
> Hebrew words are generally written with a three
> "root," and that root is central to understanding
> the "message" of the word. My knowledge here is
> extremely rudimentary, but someone schooled in
> ancient Hebrew or in Aramaic (which, logically,
> also probably operates on the "three letter root"
> system), would be able to understand if meant, or
> refers to, in some way, .
>
> These word "roots" are far more central to
> in-depth understanding of the intended message
> than are the voiced sounds (the actual alphabet
> letters being used).

“except that most global languages spoken today no longer use clicks”

==Isn’t it possible that most other languages simply never have used clicking sounds?

“Another of the clicks is a sound most any toddler can easily do: press your moist tongue against the roof of your mouth, then (with your mouth open) very quickly and somewhat forcefully retract your tongue away from the roof of your mouth.”

==I think I know what you are talking about. When we were kids, we would all make that sounds. The tongue whips the bottom of the mouth and that is when a loud sound is released.

“It is the "click in the middle of [a word]" that is dastardly difficult for us non-native speakers to voice smoothly and properly!!”

==Yes, it interrupts the word making process since I would have to reposition my tongue and use a lot of energy to make a click sound.

“I have instructional recordings”

==Why do you have such recordings? Are you trying to learn a few languages?

“I am assuming that the original language(s) being referred to is Aramaic (with maybe some Hebrew?--or some ancient Latin or ancient Greek?).”

==I have no idea. I hear that the original New Testament has not survived. The original papyrus (or whatever it was) was degraded. Whatever we have now is a copy or a copy of a copy of a copy. The language used is Koin Greek.

You can find some of them here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_papyri#:~:text=A%20New%20Testament%20papyrus%20is%20a%20copy%20of,Testament%20manuscripts%20only%20began%20in%20the%2020th%20century.

I was not able to see the original Mark 5:41.

~~~~iceman9090

iceman9090 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tevai Wrote:

> “except that most global languages spoken today
> no longer use clicks”
>
> ==Isn’t it possible that most other languages
> simply never have used clicking sounds?

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. My thinking was posited in the period when the early ancestors of the peoples we know today as KhoiSan (KhoiSan are ancestrally part of Homo Sapiens Sapiens [HSS] lineage), because the genetics lead directly back to the era(s) round about when HSS was separating from our nearest primate ancestors.

So far as we can tell today, "click languages" were our [human] first debut into real spoken language(s) which conform to our contemporary concept of a "human language."

For most of the human languages which came later, the chronologically older clicks "wore away" somehow.

The earliest biological part of YOU which was inherited from our first recognizably human ancestors was from people who very likely spoke click languages. This is what I meant.


> “Another of the clicks is a sound most any
> toddler can easily do: press your moist tongue
> against the roof of your mouth, then (with your
> mouth open) very quickly and somewhat forcefully
> retract your tongue away from the roof of your
> mouth.”
>
> ==I think I know what you are talking about. When
> we were kids, we would all make that sounds. The
> tongue whips the bottom of the mouth and that is
> when a loud sound is released.

No, this is not what I meant. The sound I am speaking of comes from the TOP of the mouth (definitely not from the bottom of the mouth) as the [moist] tongue is swiftly retracted from the roof of the mouth, and it makes a loud kind of "TOCK" sound you can easily do dozens of times a minute.


> “It is the "click in the middle of " that is
> dastardly difficult for us non-native speakers to
> voice smoothly and properly!!”
>
> ==Yes, it interrupts the word making process since
> I would have to reposition my tongue and use a lot
> of energy to make a click sound.

Yep, this is the difficult part of learning a click language as a second (or later) language. :)


> “I have instructional recordings”

> ==Why do you have such recordings? Are you trying
> to learn a few languages?

Some years ago I wrote (professionally) about the University of South Africa (popularly referred to as UNISA), and as a result of my writing and my growing interest in South Africa, I took several classes from UNISA through distance learning.

Later, as a result of the evolving changes in South Africa which occurred after Nelson Mandela's death, I went to South Africa so I could revise my prior work and bring my facts up to date. When I was there, I talked to UNISA administrators, and I learned that they were in the early stages of re-organizing UNISA in ways which rendered my prior writing obsolete, so there was not going be any "revised edition" of what I had earlier written.

One of the subjects I took from UNISA was History of South Africa, and in the instructional materials (printed instructor's lectures, etc.), that was where I saw the term "KhoiSan" for the first time in my life--and I had not the slightest idea what it meant, though it was obvious from my written lecture material that it was extremely important in the context of that particular history course.

Throughout my life, I have often "entered" different cultures through their languages, and in this case, I decided that my "entry language" to South African culture would be Xhosa. I could have chosen Afrikaans, because Afrikaans is a South African-flavored sort of Dutch, but I could already sort of limp along in Afrikaans, so I decided to "enter" through Xhosa. I greatly admire Nelson Mandela's accomplishments and, for me, this choice was also a sort of homage to Mandela's life-changing, South African as well as worldwide, contributions to world societies and cultures.

I have instructional materials in all kinds of languages: Sanskrit, Hebrew (of course ;) ), Spanish, Portuguese, French, ancient Greek, Latin, I have some Native American language learning materials, etc., etc.

My Xhosa instructional materials are, relative to some of the other languages I also have instructional materials for, just a few introductory booklets and recordings (but I do pay attention to the new YouTube videos relating to Xhosa as they go up).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2020 01:48AM by Tevai.

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
“Oh, yeah. Absolutely. My thinking was posited in the period when the early ancestors of the peoples we know today as KhoiSan (KhoiSan are ancestrally part of Homo Sapiens Sapiens [HSS] lineage), because the genetics lead directly back to the era(s) round about when HSS was separating from our nearest primate ancestors.

So far as we can tell today, "click languages" were our [human] first debut into real spoken language(s) which conform to our contemporary concept of a "human language."”

==But how could that be known?
I am skeptical.
For something like the saber tooth tiger, they can simulate somehow what sound it can make. I do remember that a paleontologist had 3D printed the sound making cavity of a certain dinosaur and blew with his mouth into it and it made its own distinct sound.

How could anyone figure out what were the first spoken words and when it started?

From what I hear, it is an educated guess that the earliest words started when humans were hunting animals and had a need to simulate the sounds of bisons or whatever they were hunting. Eventually, those sounds morphed into words.

“No, this is not what I meant. The sound I am speaking of comes from the TOP of the mouth (definitely not from the bottom of the mouth) as the [moist] tongue is swiftly retracted from the roof of the mouth, and it makes a loud kind of "TOCK" sound you can easily do dozens of times a minute.”

==I tried that. It does make a tock like sound.
But the loudest I can make is when my tongue hits the bottom of the mouth cavity.

“Some years ago I wrote (professionally) about the University of South Africa (popularly referred to as UNISA)”

==What did you write about UNISA? Who was the intended audience?

“because Afrikaans is a South African-flavored sort of Dutch”

==It is a modified Dutch language?

“I have instructional materials in all kinds of languages: Sanskrit, Hebrew (of course ;) ), Spanish, Portuguese, French, ancient Greek, Latin, I have some Native American language learning materials, etc., etc.”

==This is for learning the languages, how to speak, how to write?

~~~~iceman9090

The Semitic family is a subset of the Afroasiatic language family. Yoruba and Igbo are members of the Niger-Congo family. Over the last decade that classification has been vindicated by newly possible genetic studies. The notion that Nigerian languages spread through Egypt and became Hebrew and Sumerian is unfounded.

The Hebrew traditions are basically Canaanite religion with a superimposition of Egyptian and Mesopotamian material and finally with strong Zoroastrian influence from Persia. There is no basis for the claim that Hebrew/Israelite/Judean religion came from sub-Saharan Africa.

Do Texans actually speak English ?

Yoruba girls are easy...

This is all interesting but it doesn't support TCOJC.LDS so you are xxxxxxxxxxxx'd

There is a man who claims the Book of Mormon is set in Africa. Curiously this solves some of its problems (although not how it ended up in NY.)

Mo Joe Wrote:
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I thought that Moroni showed up to Joseph Smith and told him that he is a native american.
Also, that claim doesn’t solve anything. Where is the evidence of the “reformed egyptian”.
Where are these jews? These lamanites, nephites, jaradites? How could a major culture leave 0 evidence of their existence?

~~~~iceman9090

Here's what actual ancient Egyptians looked like from their own artwork ->

https://i2.wp.com/www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/Egyptian-mummy-portraits-from-the-Roman-era..jpg