Setting aside Mormonism as a religion, I have to say that the culture has produced some of the most amazing people that I've ever known. Keep in mind that I've always been an outsider looking in. I only have a dim understanding of what it might be like to have been born into the culture, but there's a lot that I admire about that culture. It may be difficult to understand this if one lives within it, but from the standpoint of an outsider, it's rather amazing.
The people are, by and large, nice, honest, and hardworking. Mormonism, like any religion, creates a mythical framework within which life plays itself out socially and institutionally. There are certain extrinsically established goals, a set of extrinsically defined virtues, etc. While I understand very well how destructive these can be for some people--many of the people here--I also recognize that somehow, the Mormon culture has produced some stupendously talented, humble, and passionate people who care deeply about the world and work to improve it.
For those of you who don't believe in the religious propositions of Mormonism, but still remain in the culture, and maybe even relish and thrive in it:
hahaha Steve Young! That is classic! You can totally see the Mormon come out in Steve Young during his ESPN air time. I remember when Brett Favre had a serious collar bone injury and decided to come back and gut it out on Monday night football. Everyone was all excited about Favre's bravery, but not Young! Steve Young went and told the world watching that he thinks Favre was playing due to the high amount of pain meds he was jacked up on. Favre is a recovering addict who used to be addicted to opiates. He would have been suspended if he had opiates in his system prior to game time. NICE TOUCH Steve Young! So Mormon of him!
I've found moving around a lot that it is hit and miss with wards. I hate my current ward but loved loved loved one of the others we were in. I think if you have a ward with actual good people (who aren't faking it for the religion but are sincerely good people without religion) then yes, you can love Mormons.
The mormons YOU KNOW may portray the traits you mention. They may only outwardly show these things. I certainly wouldn't say that by and large they are humble. Humility wouldn't demand that all other churches are false.
There are some Mormons that I love. There are some great Mormons. There are also some great Catholics and some great atheists. I was helped out of the church after visiting my atheist cousin, her husband, and their 3 young children. There was more love in that little family than I ever saw in the mormon church.
I do judge people who are mormon before I meet them. I probably shouldn't but I do. It is not a positive judgement.
I like some people who happen to be Mormons, not in virtue of their Mormonism-- but in spite of it.
All the things that I find admirable about Mormons in general are things that aren't specific to Mormonism. I don't find that Mormons have cornered the Market on anything especially valuable. After all, Jews and atheists appear much more successful (per capita) at producing "stupendously talented, humble, and passionate people who care deeply about the world and work to improve it".
I admire these people wherever they are found (Mormons included), but I don't see that Mormonism is especially good at turning them out.
Nope. They are fake as hell and don't know much about the outside world (with the exception of missions). You remember that lady who is like "someone has a case of the mondays!" in office space? Mormons remind me of that lady.
I figured this was one of those "play on words" posts, and you'd say something along the lines of: "I like Mormons on toasted sourdough with mayo and relish."
I like some. I don't like others. Just like I like some non-Mormons, and don't like some non-Mormons. It doesn't really matter that they're Mormon, as that's not what determines whether or not I like someone.
I tend to like nice people, no matter who they are. Several of the nicest people I know are Muslims.
though Angsty and Bona Dea share similar sentiments. During my 30 years of membership I knew some wonderful people. But they would have been just as wonderful had they belonged to any other religion or no religion at all. Frankly, I think this is the critical issue - it is NOT Mormonism that makes people good, it is good people who make Mormonism look good.
The only two Mormons who having anything to do with me are one lady whom is more hick than LDS and a former bishop who had his own rock band when he was a teen. He is of the type that can identify with those of us who went through the hippy movement and love life in a outdoorsy manner.
I won't give you my list of opposites. It's breakfast time, and I don't want to loose my breakfast.
AS a group I don't care be around them. My parents are mormons as is my whole family mostly. They do not bother me about religion so I respect what they believe. My folks and one sister are truly the idea of what "christianity" would be as far as being kind and helpful to all.
Some of my sibs didnt quite get that lesson. My parents were never the judge mental type so we grew up not being that way.
I have lived in my current residence in davis county for over 20 years. Surrounded by mormons. My records have somehow vanished into oblivion(thanks mom).
So I never get bothered by ward members here. Over time they have come to know I am on the records. Not sure why they don't bother me or my kids. They leave invites to neighborhood activities that arent totally mormon but thats about it.
So there are some mormons I like, but as someone mentioned I would probably like them anyway.
... as to how many of these wonderful, amazing, nice, honest, and hardworking mormons you know have pulled the "Yes" lever on ballot measures aimed at denying you your rights as a human being.
How quickly you've forgetten the shiney, happy facade mormons put on.
Personally, I've grown rather tired of the "I love mormons and so can you!" mentality some who frequent this establishment continue to promote.
The mormon cult (not culture) is built on lies aimed at picking people's pockets. It has a beyond dispicible track record when it comes to its treatment of anyone who isn't white, male, heterosexual or submissive in thought. It declares, feminists, homosexuals and intellectuals its enemies. It is the poster child for racist, sexist and homophobic institutions.
I hardly think it a "culture" but have no reservations declaring it a cult.
Again, these wonderful, amazing, nice, honest, and hardworking mormons you supposedly know continue to teach their sons that they have magical powers and their daughters that they are nothing more than mindless baby factories.
Sprinkle in a little racism and a healthy dose of homophobia and you gots yourself some mighty fine folks ... NOT!
If someone is going to vote against my, or anyone else's rights, I'm not going to hang around them.
If someone is going to contribute 10% of their income to an organization that campaigns against the rights of people, I'm not going to hang around them.
If someone is so hypocritical that they would support taking away my rights and then claim to be my friend, I'm going to turn and walk away, but not before frisking them for the knife.
Sure, someone can love Mormons, so long as they look past all the hateful, arrogant, distasteful and flat out mean stuff they do OR support with they tithing.
There may be some Mormons that I would like, but I doubt I would get the chance to get to know them, I'm not going to invest my time on such a low probability.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 02:19PM by MJ.
... homophobes, sexists, racists, white supremists, etc., to see where I stand.
"I like members of the KKK. Do you?"
WTF, mate?
Evil isn't just what you do, its also what you don't do. Allowing masters of fairy tales to convince you that others don't deserve the same as you ain't right. That's just WRONG!
To act on such stupidity is what I define as evil.
Bitch is, people do it anyway even though they know better.
Don't want anything to do with folks like that or their apologists.
Those that try to convert are really telling me that they are arrogant, conceited, SOBs who think the world of their own beliefs and who can't conceive that maybe they haven't got a clue.
There are many who are nice people trapped in religious hamster wheels of busywork (hometeaching stats, VT stats, missionary work, scraping boogers off of pew bottoms) and irrelevant nonsense (pretending that dead people are waiting for someone to learn secret handshakes for them). But they are people and their underwear gives me the giggles.
I can actually see the real people behind the phony religion and I DO like them and respect them for who and what they are. I don't like the odd religious application they have running through their brains all the time, though. Just when you think you're having a genuine conversation with a genuinely thoughtful, curious and fully conscious being, the religious app begins executing and shuts down the human. The next thing you know, you're hearing some monotone computer voice bearing it's "testimony" of the truthfulness of nonsense.
I love how concerned they are! It feels so good to know that people actually care so much about me that they ask questions regarding my income, spending habits, assets, estate info after my grandfather passed, where I bought my nice clothes, how much my rent is, how much my car insurance costs, how many bank accounts I have, did I get my tax return, where I buy my groceries, do I get paid for overtime, etc Nice people them mormons are!
I love how they cry at the drop of a hat too! Shows such deep sincerity and emotion.
Well, seriously though, I do know some pretty great people who are mormons and I do recognize that they have a great sense of community and caring for one another. The mormons I went to church with these last several years were good people who are generally likeable folks.
The problem is, they only care about each other on a community basis. I watched for years how people had rumours and whispers given once they left the church. I saw how active members and the royalty members were looked after much better than those who rarely attended. And when those people moved out there were big to-dos about it while other people could not get anyone to help them move and they just disappeared without much comment.
When our family was new to the ward, and there was promise of new baptisms, we were treated like royalty. And years afterward we were treated pretty well. Really, I can't complain...except that the Priesthood was NEVER there for our times of trial and tribulation, nor was anyone else except a few Relief Society sisters.
When our family left the chruch years later, all pretense of friendship was quickly withdrawn. We became lepers and then we were seen as enemies without even having to tell people why we didn't believe. The Bishop despite being what I considered to be a personal friend, made sure that people treated us like we were bad news.
Yeah, I like some mormons and I think that in general they are great folks but only if you are on the inside. If you are not on the inside, mormons will treat you like crap. And moreso if they have you outnumbered at the time. Alone, they seem to remember that they are human beings more often.
I'd quibble about the "honest" part. I don't think most of them are able to be honest, because they can't be honest with themselves about their feelings, their doubts, and their troubles. The need to maintain the "perfect" façade kills the ability to be honest.
Honesty is NOT a trait of mormons. How can they be honest when they can't even think for themselves? How can you be honest when you have to go in front of the church to declare "you know the truth"? None of use know the truth and what is true to us might not be true to others.
I am not into worshiping people but this quote from Albert Einstein makes sense."The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." I seen this on another exmormon site. By claiming to "know the truth" of the unknown we become dead. When we become dead....that's when the mormons enter our dead brains and have us running around like puppets on strings giving them money and time. Period.
The people who are still nice to me, no pressure, when I'm open about not being Mormon anymore (like my next door neighbor).
I don't have to like them all the time, but I love them.
I have a lot of pride in my heritage, too. I had ancestors who joined early on, crossed the plains, left their homes in Europe, practiced polygamy, you name it. That is part of who I am, even if I disagree with the culture and policies of the church. To deny that heritage that I have always loved would be to shut out a part of my self in a way just as poisonous, IMO, as what the church has tried to do with the parts of me that are unacceptable to them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 02:02PM by vasalissasdoll.
I do not hang with people that support, or support institutions that support efforts to deny rights to a class of people. It goes beyond the surface of just voting or campaigning to deny rights, it has to do with the way they view other people. There is a certain lack of respect that I will not tolerate when Mormons try to dictate their morals while in my bedroom.
There are plenty of people, even in Utah, that are fully supportive of who I am, ALL of me. I do not need to invest any time cultivating a friendship with a person that is likely to stab me in the back when they step into a voting booth. I have more respect for myself than that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 03:04PM by MJ.
I don't really think that being apart of the moromon religion has anything to do with being hardworking, honest, and good. That is a personal choice. I've met some asshole mormons, and I've met some really good mormons. It just depends on the person, not the religion.
We get thread after thread talking about LDS brainwashing, then we get people that claim the LDS has no on the person's ethics.
IMHO, TSCC has a major impact on the ethics and morality of those in TSCC, and the impact is greatest on those Mormons BIC and indoctrinated from birth.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 07:17PM by MJ.
I like some mormons and not others. In fact I like most of those I happen to know. It has never had much to do with their religious beliefs. I'm kinda indifferent to most mormons, because I haven't met them.
And hundreds of them have been likeable good people. But to my dying day I will always remember that first couple weeks at BYU and how astounded I was at how unfriendly most people were.
Here is what else I can say knowing so many mormons and non-mormons (cause I am old and have lived all over the US and 2 other countries I am pretty sure I have known more people than 99 percent of the posters on this board):
Mormons are significantly more dishonest than average.
Mormons are significantly less likely to be fun to be around.
That said, I am not joking about knowing hundreds of mormons who are honest, intelligent and fun to be around. But the religion breeds dishonesty and mormons even make covenents to avoid loud laughter which some of them take seriously.