Such a cop-out. Especially for an organization that claims to have all the answers and boasts having more truth than everyone else.

Does that bother anyone else? Like, it just occurred to me that having to accept "we don't know; we'll learn about that in the next phase of existence" is kind of antithetical to learning any truth about why we're here in the first place.

According to Mormonism, we're here to be tested on our willpower to control these bodies, right? So that in the next phase, we'll be able to handle the power of Gods or whatever. The veil and our forgetting the premortal existence was so that we could choose the correct path without prior knowledge of which path was the right one. I'm having trouble breaking it down, why the parts of this don't fit together. Because it doesn't make sense. How does choosing something based on no knowledge of it make that choice better/more pure than the informed choice?

Assuming God is real and the plan is exactly as Mormons laid it out: What is a blind test supposed to do for us? How does following based on limited information make you better suited for power and elevation in the next life?

of "Endure to the End."

By the time we are 40, we get the face we deserve.
The kind of life we have lived, the kind of person we are becoming, is reflected in the face.
(No reference, no studies; simply cumulative clinical observation that you may replicate from your own experience.)

Now look closely at mug shots of "the bretheren."
Do we want to become that?

Also consider the church doctrine of God reduced to being a giant dog-trainer in the sky:
Do Not develop fully your human capacities. Restrict yourself to doing tricks. To being a Very Good Dog. (Above all, do not learn to think.)

Even we on planting a tree want it to develop fully -- to fulfill it's life potential.

Here it may be seen the objective of TSCC is to control your life. Not develop it.
And in that world, the hereafter functions only as a carrot to encourage tithes.

Brilliant. Thank you. I do like following you around lately, Dr. Much nuggets of wisdom.

I know it is silly to try to force the thing to make sense, to entertain these thought experiments and mental exercises of trying to hammer down the logic, if it is there at all. But I can't get away from the fact that smart men and women I knew and looked up to just accepted this without question.

It's also a process I go through, revisiting my old thoughts and beliefs and trying to follow through to the logical conclusion. It's a bit wounding to my pride to continuously return to this room and step over shards of things that I never really examined or gave myself freedom to challenge. But in other ways, going through this process now ensures that it'll never just "make sense" to me ever again.

thegoodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it is silly to try to force the thing to
> make sense, to entertain these thought experiments
> and mental exercises of trying to hammer down the
> logic

No, it is courageous.
It is also an unnatural act: we are evolutionary biologically "wired" to follow blindly a leader, confirmed by studies such as the Milgram experiment. And consider the human condition; our history.

To observe, reason, and try make sense of things goes against our biological inclination.
It is a forbidden endeavor. It is attempting to walk on the air.

> But I can't get away
> from the fact that smart men and women I knew and
> looked up to just accepted this without question.

These are burdened with the same evolutionary wiring as are we.
So it is less a question of smarts, than of courage

When the setter of rules proclaims unquestioning acceptance and compliance as "good," the safer, easier course is to do so.

> . . . and step over shards of things . . .

Shards indeed.
Never have I read a more truthful description of the difficult, sometimes painful, always lonely, process

> What is a blind test supposed
> to do for us? How does following based on limited
> information make you better suited for power and
> elevation in the next life?
===========================

It's a fairy tale

When that got thrown in my face by my bishop after my divorce from my gay DH, I KNEW in that moment it was all bogus. "it will all be worked out in the eternities" is the biggest cop-out they have. Combine that with the wringing of hands while spitting out that stupid phrase and the gig is up.

And this is why FAITH is pushed so heavily. This is the key to getting people to wait until the next life. Faith. No scheme is good without it.

If you want to get to Heaven the only way to get there is through faith. Faith in what you are told by your leaders. Without shred of evidence. Faith in the priesthood and consecrated olive oil that never heals. Faith in the prophecies of the prophet that are nonexistent. Faith in a ridiculous book that can be proven wrong by a ten year old.


People of Faith! Geez.

Yeah. Funny how they never say to wait until the next life to hand over money.

People should write on the donation sheet: Have faith and your donation will be paid in the next life.


Good point about faces. The brethren (what a stupid cult sounding word) for the most part have faces of curmudgeon muppets.

I know some muppets who may be very offended at that.

The church can only operate with the logic of a five year old. It’s their tea party, their stuffed animals. If you walk away, they may throw a tantrum.

BULLSHITSKI

2 + 2 = Unknown until the next life. Lazy, ignorant, brainwashed.

Being told that any questions will be answered "in the next life" is the equivalent of "I'll tell you when you're older;" it's patronizing and answers nothing. The big 15 and apologists do not have a high opinion of member maturity and intelligence if this is a go-to answer.

Either that, or God thinks humans blindly obeying his every command is entertaining.

Is this an admission that they don't know anything ?

what if there isn't a "next life"
I have my doubts that there is
When you are here you are here
When you are gone you are gone.
PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD

We Have 'The' "TRUTH"
We'll Tell You.....
EVERYTHING-
°
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°
°
°
°
°
°
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We Know
And...
_______

Everything you need to know
(or you can just ask God)...
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
☆ When You're DEAD ☆
°
○
○
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Or, We Know Nothing...
We just say we do.
□
Come Follow Us-
Join With Us-
We're Lost...
Really!

I refuse to entertain this. If none of us know, then the point is moot. I know a weasel when I see one. The abusive Mormon parent says, "this will all work out in the afterlife."

My thoughts exactly, donbagley.

So, Joseph Smith the gimpy man more horny than limp screwed and screws enough to add the tag of sex cult into his angelic church.
But in the next life we'll get his explanation.

Joseph Smith flat out and stone face lies about almost anything and everything be it The Book Of Abraham, or mixing in just enough sprinkles of time tested Biblical stories and Psalms and Proverbs.
But in the next life his evil mental illness that nearly broke our very own emotional sanity, we will be provided our own padded room.

Brigham Young dragging the entire LDS congregation onto the Mormon Trail west into the Utah territories would place almost all that crushing hate of that journey onto non-Mormons and blacks.
But in the next life blacks will be white, non-Mormons more tan.

The us againt them mentality that shrinks and shrinks any healthy possibility the LDS could ever hope to knit back into normal society also downsized congregations everywhere.
There will be a meeting scheduled for this discussion in the next life but so far nobody is on the roster.

In this life coffee and tea is pretty close to being thought of as hard drugs or something so unhealthy you should eat lots and lots of sugary foods instead.
In the next life there is no coffee or tea, sorry you missed out.