Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Bobby dole ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 06:47PM

I can see why so many friends that have left Mormonism have gone atheist, but my family have a firm testimony in God so that isn't an option.

How have you guys fared locating a community of faith or religion after Mormonism for those that found one?

We struggle with the idea of the Trinity but could get behind it, but then Catholicism seems to take a left turn and prays to Mary as the go between.

Protestant faiths seem to fix that but look like they have errs in places where they seem like they chose option B simply because Catholics picked option A.

Basically Christianity seems like a complete gong show.

The options just seem like a lot of leaky boats with just finding a community to be around while sinking and in that aspect we almost want to stay members even though we don't believe a lot of this philosophy of man mingled with scripture that is our church.

Anyways, just wanted to hear others thoughts if anyone has time to explain what they located that worked for them

Thanks in advance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 06:55PM

Just find - or create - a place you feel comfortable, productive, happy. That may change. Change with, or without, it. Happy hunting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 07:35PM

Bear in mind that you don't need to make a decision right away. It's perfectly acceptable in mainstream Christianity to go "church shopping." You can attend as a family for as long as you like without joining. You can visit as many churches as you like. It's not like Mormonism where missionaries are pushing you to join right away.

I always recommend that people coming from the high-control Mormon faith look at the more moderate mainstream churches. Take a look at the Episcopal church, the ELCA Lutherans, the UMC Methodists, the PCUSA Presbyterians, and the United Church of Christ.

Independent churches are all over the map. Some are great, some are awful.

Take your time. Bear in mind that many mainstream Christians take their church's dogma with a grain of salt. It's not necessary to subscribe to every belief with exactitude.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 01:00PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always recommend that people coming from the
> high-control Mormon faith look at the more
> moderate mainstream churches. Take a look at the
> Episcopal church, the ELCA Lutherans, the UMC
> Methodists, the PCUSA Presbyterians, and the
> United Church of Christ.

And I recommend the Unitarian Universalist church. It's a great place to figure out what you actually believe when no one is telling you what to believe.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 08:04PM

I would not equate a complete distain for organized religion with being an atheist.

You can believe in god and not be in a church.

Millions of Americans identify as no religious preference. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in god.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 12:56AM

I don't have a complete disdain for organized religion. I just don't believe in any of it. No animus. Just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 08:13PM

I did not carry on with religion, but some of my friends found non-denominational Christian churches, or some just chose to continue their belief in Jesus, pray to him and love him, but they don't have a specific church that they are connected to. They just read the Bible and pray. They don't necessarily believe in, or trust organized religion anymore.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 08:21PM

What do you want from a religion that you can't have without one?

Because it seems to me religion does basically three things:

-- It can affirm things you already believe

-- It might try to reshape what you do or don't believe

-- It cam provide community

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 09:57PM

Are you confused

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 10:03PM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you confused


Cults have grown pretty well by swooping in on the unlearned, unwise an foolish after pandemic and disaster. Yes, your mormo-ism, mine too.

Google pretty much proves stupidity is not hardly caused from a lack of information heh!

Remember, some faith is required because you don't know what you don't know.

Are you maybe confused, beyond any possible aid?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 10:35PM

OP still believes in God, so the objection seems to be Mormonism’s particular kind of stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 10:03PM

What exactly do you have against praying to Mary, and why does that matter? Catholics have perfectly good reasons for doing so, that they find sufficiently reasonable to keep up the practice.

I don't see where it is any more or less effective than praying to any other mythical figure. If nothing else, its kind of nice the Catholics have at least one prominent role for a woman in their pantheon. That's one more than the Mormons have.

If you like the people, Mary-phobia seems like an odd reason to dump them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 01:49AM

I realize that you are being facetious, but having been raised Catholic, I should point out that prayer does not equate to worship. Catholics venerate, or honor Mary, but they don't worship her. When they pray to her, it's more along the lines of asking for help. Apart from prayers said during Mass (i.e. the "Hail Mary,") Catholics may or may not pray to her. I generally did not, but I have friends who did. Some Catholics pray to selected saints, and some do not. It does resemble a pantheon, doesn't it? It allows Catholics to customize their faith in whatever manner feels supportive to them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 11:41PM

Big fan of Zen Dudeism.
Like Zen Buddhism for white dudes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nontheist for Reason ( )
Date: January 01, 2021 11:46PM

I agree with what Summer said:

“I always recommend that people coming from the high-control Mormon faith look at the more moderate mainstream churches. Take a look at the Episcopal church, the ELCA Lutherans, the UMC Methodists, the PCUSA Presbyterians, and the United Church of Christ.”

I found these churches she mentioned viable options after leaving Mormonism. As for the other types of churches, when I visited the more Fundamentalists churches I always tried to get them to narrow down their source tradition, and if it was Calvinism I high tailed it out of there. If they taught hell fire torture for thought crimes, I was gone. I think it's emotional child abuse to teach that to kids.

I visited the Unitarian Universalist church a few times and generally liked the vibe but where I live there is not one nearby. But many exmo's have found it a viable option.

When I left Mormonism I basically became a studious hermit except for close friends, family, and an atheist and agnostic meetup group I attended for years. I went church shopping recently and was turned off by all the Fundamentalist type churches in my area.

One day I will try out a "liberal" Jewish synagogue (I want nothing to do with the orthodox kind) which is an option for me, as it seems to have things I did like in Mormonism without the cultism. And Jesus was Jewish; so if I really wanted to do what Jesus would do, wouldn't I become a Jew?

After leaving Mormonism I applied the same rigorous skepticism I did toward Mormonism toward Christianity and found it even more problematic than Mormonism. Just one example, read the work of scholar Paul Middleton on the first Christians who were voluntary martyrs. Basically first century Pauline Christianity was initially a religious-suicide-cult (think Heaven's Gate without the UFOs). Take up your cross in Mark was about actually carrying your cross to martyrdom, and Paul constantly said things like "to die is gain," and right there in 1 Corinthians 13 you have Paul speaking favorably about someone voluntarily getting burned to death "IF" it is done in agape love of course. Anyway, once your eyes are open to this earth-life-rejecting death cult emphasis, it is hard not to see it all over the NT. It's why the Jesus character says its most ideal if able to become a eunuch, and to sell your possessions, and Paul encourages celibacy in 1 Cor. 7; as the goal was not buying a home and retirement planning and building a better world on earth, but rejecting the "demon infested" earth and human passions and instead the goal was getting yourself killed as a martyr so you could escape your adamic body and "sprout" a new Jesus genus (a spirit body) that would basically hatch out of your corpse at the arrival of the Messiah (see 1 Corinthians 15 and Frank Viola's book From Eternity to Here: Rediscovering the Ageless Purpose of God).

BUT, but! ... we live in a Christian culture, and Americans have reinterpreted the NT to make it say things it does not say, like the "prosperity gospel" despite the NT actually being about anti-money pro communistic utopianism awaiting the Jehovian end-times. So why not make it say whatever you want when everyone else is. So these are the brands of Christianity that I recommend as an "thinking" exmormon:

The types of Christianity that I promote and endorse are:

Petersonian Christianity: Dr. Jordan Peterson combines a wide variety of philosophies and psychologies into one, as diverse as Nietzsche and Carl Jung.

Sean McCraney's ChristiAnarchy at https://hotm.faith/

Joshua Jipp's book Saved by Faith and Hospitality

Jonathan Mitchell’s New Testament translation and articles: https://www.jonathanmitchellnewtestament.com/jonathan-s-recommendations/general-christianity-theology/

David Bentley Hart's book That All May Be Saved

The Unvarnished New Testament by Andy Gaus (This is the best translation I have found. It allows you to read it "raw" without all the post-Constantine Augustinian theological gloss)

Marcus Borg's book Speaking Christian and The Heart of Christianity

John Spong's book Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism and his other books

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 12:37AM

Nontheist for Reason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One day I will try out a "liberal" Jewish
> synagogue (I want nothing to do with the orthodox
> kind)

The Jewish spectrum, beginning with "most liberal" is (simplified):

Secular Jewish Humanism ("Jewish atheist," but solid on Jewish culture)....Reform....Reconstructionist or Conservative (in North America, "Conservative" congregations can be emphatically liberal, depending on the individual congregation and the specific geographical area)....Modern Orthodox (the liberal arm of Orthodoxy; most of the time you couldn't pick out a Modern Orthodox Jew by their attire, etc.)....["regular"/"mainstream"] Orthodox....ultra-Orthodox [Chabad]....ultra-ultra Orthodox [Satmars, etc. in places like New York].

On the "left" side of the spectrum (Secular Jewish Humanism through Conservative), there will be "mixed" seating (males and females sit together in the congregation).

Modern Orthodox (from what I have been able to gather) may or may not have mixed gender seating, it depends on that particular congregation (again: from what I have been able to gather).

Mainstream Orthodox, and certainly through the right (super ultra-observant) part of the Jewish spectrum has separated gender seating: women either sit behind a "mechitzah" ("divider" which can be seen through), or in a balcony, etc. (Jewish girls become, in a Jewish religious sense, "of age" at age twelve. Prior to age twelve, they can sit wherever they wish in the congregation.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2021 12:38AM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 01:30AM

Tevai, if you want to attend a Jewish service (say, Reform or Reconstructionist/Conservative,) how do you go about it? Do you just show up at the designated time? Anything special to know?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 02:29AM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tevai, if you want to attend a Jewish service
> (say, Reform or Reconstructionist/Conservative,)
> how do you go about it? Do you just show up at the
> designated time? Anything special to know?

Yes, you just find out (from your local community newspaper, or by phoning the synagogue to ask) the time when Friday night services begin. (I strongly recommend Friday night--which is the beginning of Shabbat/the Sabbath--services as a starting point for a number of reasons, beginning with: Friday night services are family services, they tend to be the emotionally "warmest" services for those who visit and are unfamiliar with Jewish worship, and there tends to be lots of good feelings and often more laughter than Christians usually expect.)

As a visitor I would select a seat a few rows back from the bimah [podium](because I wouldn't want to inadvertently break into any family groups who were there because one or more of them was becoming Bat/Bar Mitzvaed, etc.).

Depending on the congregation, prayerbooks may be printed either front-to-back (this would likely be true of Reform prayerbooks), or back-to-front (the normative way books are printed in Judaism). In the Reform prayerbook, "Gates of Prayer," each section on a page begins in Hebrew and is then translated (underneath the Hebrew) into English. Don't worry about having to say anything out loud; I would just read along the English portions, and be respectfully silent when Hebrew was being spoken.

One thing to be aware of: There is a particular moment in Friday night services when everyone stands and turns around, so they are facing the door, and a particular song/prayer titled "Lecha Dodi" (means: Come My Beloved) is sung or spoken while the main doors of the shul are opened--they will be closed again after this part of the service is over. What is going on is that the "Shabbat bride" (which means: the feminine aspect of God) is being welcomed into the community's Shabbat joy. (Shabbat is supposed to be the most joyous, and the most emotionally rewarding, part of any week.)

Since observant Judaism does not allow the "touching" of money during Shabbat (except for genuine emergencies, when all of the usual Shabbat "rules" are INSTANTLY interrupted so that "life"--broadly speaking--is preserved), there will be no passing of trays for contributions. (Jewish synagogues are financed by members of that congregation paying annual dues, which are calculated on a sliding schedule according to that member's family situation, age, medical condition, employment circumstances, financial situation, etc.)

After the service, there will be an "oneg Shabbat" in a room close by, which means: refreshments for everyone, typically lots of laughter, maybe some Israeli folk dancing, maybe a short performance by certain members of the shul....and you will have an opportunity to meet and chat with whoever in the congregation you feel particularly drawn to. When the introductions are going on, tell them that you are not Jewish and you wanted to see what Jewish Shabbat services are like, and that a Jewish friend [that's me!] suggested you drop by so you could experience Shabbat for yourself.

I think you will be glad you went, because you will come out knowing a lot you didn't know before, and because this visit will undoubtedly turn out to be one of the most interesting and fun experiences of your life--or, at least, this is the experience of most non-Jews who come to visit shuls for Shabbat. (It is deeply engrained in Jewish culture that guests, particularly guests on Shabbat, are to be warmly welcomed into the community being visited.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2021 03:05AM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 08:02AM

Thank you for the very thorough explanation, Tevai!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nontheist for Reason ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 09:16PM

Yeah thanks for that detailed explanation Tevai.

I became open to the option of Reform Judaism or Secular Jewish Humanism after reading books like the following:

> Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus
> The Misunderstood Jew: The Church and the Scandal of the Jewish Jesus
by Amy-Jill Levine
> The Jewish Annotated New Testament
> The Jewish Gospels by Daniel Boyarin > The Restitution of All Things by Joseph Farah
>When A Jew Rules the World by Joel Richardson.
> Paul Was Not a Christian: The Original Message of a Misunderstood Apostle by Pamela Eisenbaum.
> A Summary of the New Perspective on Paul by Mark M. Mattison
> Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola

It became obvious to me that the parts of the New Testament that I do/did value had their origins in Judaism and a Jewish Jesus and the authors of the New Testament were all (or mostly) Jews using Jewish midrash, for example see: Echoes of Scripture in the Gospels by Richard B. Hays and John Shelby Spong’s book, Biblical Literalism: A Gentile Heresy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nontheist for Reason ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 09:26PM

Thanks for sharing that NormaRae. That reminds me that Episcopalian is a possible option for me in the future if I crave a community, but right now I don't attend any organized religion. Maybe when covid-19 is under control I will try out a Reform synagogue and the Episcopal Church. Right now I follow the CDC guidelines and steer clear of large groups and in door gatherings. I have family members who could die from covid-19 if they were exposed or caught
it from me and so I'm extra careful. So no Church Gatherings for me right now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nontheist for Reason ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 09:33PM

Thanks for sharing that NormaRae. That reminds me that Episcopalian is a possible option for me in the future if I crave a community, but right now I don't attend any organized religion. Maybe when covid-19 is under control I will try out a Reform synagogue and the Episcopal Church. Right now I follow the CDC guidelines and steer clear of large groups and in door gatherings. I have family members who could die from covid-19 if they were exposed or caught
it from me and so I'm extra careful. So no Church Gatherings for me right now.

Sorry if this is a duplicate, still trying to figure out why my posts on the message board shows up in weird places out of order. Maybe because I'm in California or something?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 09:43PM

You can say that again!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 11:26AM

If you want a relationship with the God you believe in, then go directly to the source. Make a connection by direct dialing.

Going to church and getting your answers from a clergy /priest/preacher/prophet/pope/person who say's they know God more than you, is no different than a fifteen year old girl asking her friend Sarah to please ask Janie to ask Bobby if he likes her.

If God talks to you, you are going to feel it not hear it. The inspiration comes from with in. Always consider though, that there is something wonderful about yourself that perhaps makes you the well of the inspiration.

Great inspiration has many sources that don't include a pulpit.
Listening, observing. Don't limit yourself to a pew.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 11:38AM

I've reached the point where I don't feel in need of a go-between between me and any sort of deity. I think that certain people can impart wisdom (for me, the Dalai Lama consistently gives good advice, the Pope sometimes,) but I would never accept any human as a prophet. I figure I'm as sensible as most people, and if God wants to talk to me, he knows where to find me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 03:35PM

I get what you're saying, but you get a better table at a Vegas dinner show by tipping the maitre d’ or the captain...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 12:32PM

of "locating a community of faith or religion after Mormonism" ? May a worthy objective be, but --

I mean, what precisely and exactly, naked -- is the problem being addressed?
(Or challenge, or desire, or need, or want, or or or or etc etc etc -- not to get lost in the limitations of language)

Because the objective to be achieved makes a critical difference here. (It really does, not being a wiseazz here)

One thing for 100% certain:
No organization will be free of the foibles of Mormondom, because all are composed of groups of people.
And people are funny things, particularly when they get together in groups

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 12:42PM

Dr. No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of "locating a community of faith or religion
> after Mormonism" ? May a worthy objective be,
> but --
>
> I mean, what precisely and exactly, naked -- is
> the problem being addressed?
> (Or challenge, or desire, or need, or want, or or
> or or etc etc etc -- not to get lost in the
> limitations of language)
>
> Because the objective to be achieved makes a
> critical difference here. (It really does, not
> being a wiseazz here)
>
> One thing for 100% certain:
> No organization will be free of the foibles of
> Mormondom, because all are composed of groups of
> people.
> And people are funny things, particularly when
> they get together in groups

The progressive cure is nondenominational mega Church with smaller community groups within huge structure serving dual purposes. Focus can be on a car club or knitting interests while at the same time allowing creatively sourced backgrounds. And, you're no longer just a number in a big gathering since you're getting personal connections with other folks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 01:29PM

josephssmmyth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> smaller community groups within huge
> structure serving dual purposes. Focus can be on a
> car club or knitting interests while at the same
> time allowing creatively sourced backgrounds.
===============================

if what is being sought is a sense of belonging, community with like-interested folks.
But won't provide a rigid belief and rules structure if that is the objective.
And so, won't necessarily help one feel "better than" if that is important.

It's Aesop's fable of the dog and the wolf all over again.

> And, you're no longer just a number in a big gathering
> since you're getting personal connections with
> other folks.
===============================

Even so, stick around long enough and one finds the weirdities of Mormondom, in some form.
Sometimes manifests as splits when the group can no longer contain various cliques.

It's in the evo-biological wiring. How we are.
We can't help it, because usually we are blind to it.

(Those who do see it, rarely belong to any group)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 01:52PM

+ 1000 The objective. Important element.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 04:05PM

Dr. No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> josephssmmyth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > smaller community groups within huge
> > structure serving dual purposes. Focus can be on
> a
> > car club or knitting interests while at the
> same
> > time allowing creatively sourced backgrounds.
> ===============================
>
> if what is being sought is a sense of belonging,
> community with like-interested folks.
> But won't provide a rigid belief and rules
> structure if that is the objective.
> And so, won't necessarily help one feel "better
> than" if that is important.
>
> It's Aesop's fable of the dog and the wolf all
> over again.
>
> > And, you're no longer just a number in a big
> gathering
> > since you're getting personal connections with
> > other folks.
> ===============================
>
> Even so, stick around long enough and one finds
> the weirdities of Mormondom, in some form.
> Sometimes manifests as splits when the group can
> no longer contain various cliques.
>
> It's in the evo-biological wiring. How we are.
> We can't help it, because usually we are blind to
> it.
>
> (Those who do see it, rarely belong to any group)

You can belong to almost any group and maybe be the most level and seasoned person there. I'm pretty up front and will call out BS if they get crazy. My big one recently was really easy, mentioned Steven Quack Quayle and all his Egyptology crap inside Southern Utah cave dwellings.
I started laughing, they didn't like that. They weren't happy.

So, you just make a necessary change. Lost expectations, nobigdeal..

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cauda ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 04:19PM

Jesus returns and establish The Kingdom.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: j ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 05:19PM

What, and change one set of fables and liars for another?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 06:47PM

I’ve taken several turns. We change during our lives and sometimes things fit us better at different times. Living in the Southeast sometimes feels like living in Utah, but I’m a little less phobic about organized religion than I was in my early post mormon days. I’ve been involved in Unitarianism for quite some time but the particular group I’ve been in seems to now be attracting a lot of people who are just not my cup-o-tea. Most of the people I met there who have been, and still are, close friends of mine have left. I keep a very loose connection because I do like that they support some social justice projects with the homeless, women’s and minority issues and the underserved in our community. Community service (not the Mormon kind where they only provide service if you’re a member of their club) should be a big part of what churches are for.

But I’ve drifted toward an Episcopal church because they are also very involved in social justice projects in the community, are surprisingly progressive and the people are much more professional and intellectual. I need that. Their book group reads great books that spark the most interesting discussions. I’ve come to actually enjoy the “high church” aspect of their services. The music is incredible and the liturgy is peaceful to me. Their rector gives about a 15-min sermon tied into that week’s liturgy and she is amazing (and having a woman minister is also a big plus). She very much stresses that Christ’s mission was to teach us how to be with each other. Very little about salvation. I don’t think it would have worked for me even 10 years ago, but at 65 it fits me better.

So I guess what I’m saying is while you’re smart to ask for suggestions, enjoy the freedom of being able to test the waters. Figure out what your goals are, what you want and need from a religious community, and find what fits YOU.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:12PM

This makes me think I could go to church again. It's a passing thought, but I thought it!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 10:44PM

Don’t the shutdowns due to the COVID19 pandemic put a damper on church hopping?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: josephssmmyth ( )
Date: January 02, 2021 10:50PM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don’t the shutdowns due to the COVID19 pandemic
> put a damper on church hopping?


No church hopping till Easter.. (sorry)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 12:07AM

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don’t the shutdowns due to the COVID19 pandemic
> put a damper on church hopping?

Yes, if "shul shopping" (Jewish term) is included.

The synagogues I know of have gone online.

My post was about a world where covid was not a "thing."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 11:55AM

In a way it may help. Most churches have online services right now. It’s a good way to get an introduction to a church. If the service turns you off you might not want to even find out what their social organization is like.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 02:25PM

That is a great idea NormaRae!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 02:27PM

What I did was make a list of things I believed, and things I didn't. Then, I went searching for a religion that matched.

Don't try to fit your beliefs to a religion. It should be the other way around.

(By the way, I'm neo-Pagan.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 02:34PM

https://www.beliefnet.com/entertainment/quizzes/beliefomatic.aspx


Answer twenty questions and it tells you how you line up with the main religions out there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2021 02:35PM by Dorothy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 02:45PM

Rats. That website has really changed. No more just handing over the analysis. Still--it's interesting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 03:06PM

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answer twenty questions and it tells you how you
> line up with the main religions out there.
===============================

Entertaining!
Sadly there's no church called what I got

Sad face! :-(

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 03:17PM

My strong impression, which I began forming when I was in elementary school (because of the kids I went to school with), is that Judaism is very possibly more about "peoplehood" (community; tribe, etc.) than it is about what we think of as belief.

In my conversion to Judaism class, some of us HAD made a systematic survey of religions, and had made the decision that Judaism was the best belief fit for them--but my impression was that these potential converts were in the distinct minority.

The more common reason given for "why I want to convert to Judaism" was some variation on peoplehood--not religious belief. This reason was expressed in a wide variety of ways, but it came down to "I want to be part of the Jewish people, and the religious beliefs are just fine with me whether I believe in them or not."

Side Note: Judaism has always had a strong atheist [in our terms today] component--some of the most important Jews throughout history have been, in our terms today, atheist: Spinoza, Einstein, etc., etc.

In contemporary times, Judaism has a recognized atheist denomination/movement: Secular Jewish Humanism--which is simultaneously extremely devoted to Judaism and the Jewish people....and is also atheist. They teach Jewish history and culture, they celebrate Shabbat and the Jewish holidays, they have a siddur [prayerbook] which reflects their non-belief as well as their actual beliefs, etc., etc., etc.

In times past (and especially in the United States, probably beginning in the early 1800s, though possibly a bit before), this "wanting to be part of the Jewish people," or "wanting to live a Jewish life" was often sought through marriage. Including me (during my growing-up years), this has typically been expressed as non-Jewish females consciously seeking specifically Jewish males as marital partners--"knowing" (or assuming) that marriage to a Jewish male would necessitate the female converting to Judaism.

In our conversion class many of us were in this category (and, for at least one couple, the born Jew was the female, and the aspiring convert to Judaism was male).

Others said things like: "I always felt that inside of me I was actually Jewish/a Jew [and there had been this huge mistake at my birth because I was REALLY, inside myself, Jewish!]," and "I always felt that Judaism was my true identity," and "when I met [a specific Jew, or a specific Jewish family] I knew that THAT was what I wanted for MY life," and so on.

In these cases (the majority in my conversion class), Jewish beliefs were secondary--Jewish beliefs were acceptable to the potential convert, and in the potential convert's view, that was all that was necessary.

And, yes, we DID have at least a few people in our class who had made a systematic study of comparative religions and decided that, intellectually and spiritually, Judaism was the best "fit" for them.

I think this perspective on converts to Judaism is not unlike non-Native Americans who (throughout American history), have-- either formally or informally--chosen to become a part of Native American communities. It would have been a very small number indeed if intellectual/spiritual conversion to that community's religious belief system was critical to their acceptance into the Native American tribe. Mostly these newcomers to the tribe just learn to fit in (in an external sense)....and, likely, many of them eventually come to acceptance--perhaps even some level of belief.

In Judaism, this situation may look quite different from the outside, but I don't think it is actually all that different from an inside perspective.

Many/most converts to Judaism convert in order to join, to be part of, the Jewish people and to live a Jewish life (there are many non-Jews who deeply desire to be part of Jewish families), and for many in this sector of converts, the Jewish religion is unobjectionable, and just kind of "part of the whole package."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2021 03:27PM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 03, 2021 04:01PM

Is that like Life after Death?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Agate ( )
Date: January 04, 2021 07:06PM

I’m a nevermo and a believer. It seems reasonable for anyone looking to stay within some form of Christianity to do some investigating. I was a convert to Christianity way back when, so I basically had to start from scratch. There are basically thousands of denomination to choose from. I wanted to know what the differences were between the denominations first, so I studied what the differences were, then researched in scripture where they came up with that belief. The differences are really not as big as one would believe.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 04, 2021 11:42PM

Finding the best fit for your beliefs is one approach. But for the more moderate denominations, I think it's also valid to find a community that feels like a comfortable fit. There are Christians who put a priority on community, and who don't mind potentially switching denominations should they move.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Eventually ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:47PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **    **        **  **     **  **     ** 
  **   **    **  **         **  **     **  **     ** 
   ** **      ****          **  **     **  **     ** 
    ***        **           **  **     **  ********* 
   ** **       **     **    **  **     **  **     ** 
  **   **      **     **    **  **     **  **     ** 
 **     **     **      ******    *******   **     **