If you live in a smallish Mormon town and have a business with Mormon customers, there can be painful gossip and impact to your business. Your kids might be shunned at school if it is predominantly Mormon.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
We resigned years ago. I'm glad to be disassociated with Mormon membership by choice.
There Are No benefits to mormonism, UNLESS they come to worship YOU, and PAY YOU tithing and gifts of honor, and CLEAN YOUR HOUSE, which thru pay for... and even then, surely these would not be benefits, but consequences.
Benefits? hahahahahahahhaha Not in a million years... And even then, it's doubtful
A) I can’t abide the knowledge that by doing so, it would give my one TBM child the opportunity to dead-dunk my raggedy dead ass and then blubber about it at F&TM,
B) If there’s ever a tithing refund, or a dividing up of the $110 billion dollar Jesus rainy day fund, it might only be for current members!!
I'm thinking that the $110 billion will never get returned back to the rightful recipients. The profit and his apostles would rather buy up the national debt from a smallish country and start a theocracy rather than admit defeat or error.
History teaches us that despots would rather blow their kingdom to bits (Hitler's orders to blow Berlin to smithereens if he lost the war) than do the right thing. Do you think Rusty and the others have scruples? And with $110 billion to work with, I doubt the courts would rule in favor of the sheeple. Nice pipe dream however.
asking for permission to leave is tacitly acknowledging and recognizing as valid their belief that they have some kind of power and authority over you. It's playing their game.
Any authority and power they may have over us, exists only in their heads.
If leaving is going to cause a s***storm within your family, neighborhood, against your children, or at work, that is worse than you want to deal with, I think that is a perfectly good reason not to resign.
I only got serious pushback from one parent, who didn't even find out until 12 years after I left. I was willing to deal with that.
Other than that, I can think of no benefit from remaining "on the books". If anything, I've regretted only being able to resign once. There have been several times I thought they richly deserved an additional flipping of the bird.
Brother Of Jerry Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If leaving is going to cause a s***storm within > your family, neighborhood, against your children, > or at work, that is worse than you want to deal > with, I think that is a perfectly good reason not > to resign. > > I only got serious pushback from one parent, who > didn't even find out until 12 years after I left. > I was willing to deal with that. > > Other than that, I can think of no benefit from > remaining "on the books". If anything, I've > regretted only being able to resign once. There > have been several times I thought they richly > deserved an additional flipping of the bird.
Wouldn't it be something else if you had a membership with the kooky Christian Science nutz, maybe an association with some Scientology goofs and at the same time the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses thought that they were the oligarch owners of your ass?
Telling all at the same time to pack sand, you'd never know where the shots were maybe sourced. With just the stupid internet negligent LDS group it's maybe only coming from one church getting rapidly smaller and smaller and smaller..
I don't formally resign because it would devastate my parents, especially my dad who is deeply steeped in belief. It's odd that I should care, considering that his extreme religiosity combined with an authoritarian parenting style left me a bit battered and bewildered. But I do care for whatever reason.
Also, many of the local members are also my neighbors. We continue to be friendly. No one has bothered me about coming back to church. I don't get invitations to clean the toilets. I don't get called in to tithing settlement. If this were to change, I may reconsider and cancel my subscription...
Let me know if you'd ever like to try the American Anarcho-syndicalist League instead. The snacks are all from Whole Foods and there is neither janitorial work or tithing settlement.
It's a bit like a UU congregation except they don't let people in who carry slide rules in their pockets.
Evergreennotloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > DH and I were thinking of submitting the paperwork > to formally leave TSCC. > > Are there any benefits to membership we should > consider before we pull the plug?
Let me get this straight. You and your husband have determined that Mormonism is false and deceptive, and as such presumably harmful. Yet, you are still wondering about whether there are any benefits TO YOU by maintaining membership?
What happened to personal integrity?
To my mind, regardless of any perceived personal benefits, there is NO EXCUSE for maintaining membership in a harmful cult, and all such excuses are just that, excuses; rationalizations to avoid personal discomfort. As you read responses to this thread, you can easily cut through such rationalizations. Nothing is worse than living a lie--even if family members are "devastated." That is their problem, not yours.
No Excuses Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------ > What happened to personal integrity? ===============================
If my integrity depended on whether I belonged to a group, or not --- would it be integrity?
From the Latin 'integritas' soundness -- e.g. structural integrity: the ability to stand alone. It doesn't rely on guy wires or flying buttresses or the like. It stands unaided. It has to do with what is within the structure itself. The strength is within the very structure.
If one chooses to submit papers, that's cool. More power. Congratulations sincere But the action does not impact integrity. Nor is it proof. Because integrity, true integrity, does not require proof. Doesn't care one way or the other. Irrelevant. Because it is within the structure.
--------
Not questioning integrity of any compadre; sharpening the edges.
Dividing into righteous groups of Us vs. Them (for example: resigned, didn't resign) is a product of our evolutionary biology. It's how we are wired.
Humberto Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It may be surprising to learn that some of us > actually see in color.
You said above:
"I don't formally resign because it would devastate my parents, especially my dad who is deeply steeped in belief. It's odd that I should care, considering that his extreme religiosity combined with an authoritarian parenting style left me a bit battered and bewildered. But I do care for whatever reason."
Newsflash: That is not seeing in color. It is being colorblind. You are allowing your parents to manipulate you; either explicitly or implicitly.
Sure, go ahead and double down on your "one size fits all everyone must resign or they're lacking integrity and are being manipulated no matter their personal circumstances" position. You've made my point for me.
I can think of a lot of words to describe someone who would intentionally hurt others, when the alternative could be achieved at no real cost. None of them are positive. "Integrous" certainly isn't one of them.
For us, it was a matter of personal integrity. Our daughter was young at the time and being a member of evil cult you don't believe in seemed like bad behavior to model.
That said, we didn't broadcast it to everyone either. We don't talk religion with family members or others, just politely change the subject. This is important, especially in the workplace, which is mostly Mormon. Mormon friends that know are still friends, the others were fake friends and don't matter. Some Mormons, including family members, are actually jealous. For us, it's been a 100 percent improvement in our lives and it's been a long enough time that we don't really spend much time thinking about it. Knowing that I'm no longer associated with a harmful cult makes me feel better inside, rather like correcting a mistake.
The only benefits I can think of appear in Dagny's comments.
I left, 1) because I did not want my name associated with them at all. I've been gone long enough that I don't even call myself an ex-Mormon anymore. I just say, "I was raised without religion," which is actually true. It puzzled my parents when I went searching for religion. 2) I didn't want them spending the rest of my life trying to track me down in order to bring me back, which is what has happened to a friend of mine who has not officially resigned.
I might think twice if your ultra TBM family made a condition on your inheritance. Since you probably won't know until after the last aged parent dies, you are taking a risk. If your family has meager wealth and there are large number of siblings, this probably won't cause you much financial distress. But......
Some LDS families have amassed quite a bit of wealth and an apostate son or daughter might lose a lot. If a large share of an inheritance were to default to LDS, Inc. I'd really think that over seriously. If you were baptized at age 8 this is not a matter of integrity. You were basically forced into membership without the power to resist. Being "Less Active" could not be considered lacking integrity. If you did, however, resign your membership under those conditions AND if there were an almighty god testing you for integrity, humility, and stupidity, you will surely go directly to the highest heaven.
To formally resign from the church is just acknowledging their power over you. Your decision to quit is yours alone and does not require their permission. If you really quit, stop jumping through their hoops.
Razortooth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To formally resign from the church is just > acknowledging their power over you. Your decision > to quit is yours alone and does not require their > permission. If you really quit, stop jumping > through their hoops.
This is perhaps the stupidest yet most common rationalizations of all time. I strongly suspect that your not resigning is for a much more practical reason; family? hedging your bets? In any event, their power over you is in manipulating you into NOT resigning. The only way to sever that power is in RESIGNING! Resigning is NOT "jumping through their hoops." Rather, it is a statement that you no longer wish to be accounted with their bullshit.
I didn't think of it as asking for their permission to leave at all. It was my opportunity to tell them that I wanted no association with them at all. I officially left for myself. Getting myself removed from their re-activation radar was for myself as well.
One time the mishies were on my street. They knocked on every door, but by-passed my house. That gave me immense satisfaction.
I agree, I didn’t see it as asking for permission either. In my letter to member records, I said I was informing them that I had resigned my membership, and that I was directing them to remove my name from their rolls.
I totally get that. If you can stay inactive without being hassled too much, it might be the wiser course of action if it would be too upsetting to one's family.
thedesertrat1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I can't be bothered with the hassles it would > cause within the family. > So I exercies passive resistance
"Passive resistance?" What a joke. Just admit it: You are allowing yourself to remain affiliated with a religious cult because of personal inconvenience. You're O.K. with being manipulated.
The problem with such nonsense as "passive resistance" (the old "fighting it from within" excuse) is that your continued affiliation always speaks louder than your resistance--no matter who you are.
Heidi GWOTR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Besides everything above that has been mentioned, > if you're into genealogy, you have better access > to info if you maintain your membership.
Once the five year subscription passes your yearly salary, sure.
We resigned because we had many members show up unannounced at our door trying to get us to come back. When my aunt found out that we had resigned she called all 7 of her children (my cousins) and told them that we had left. For a couple of months it was hard after wards because family was avoiding us but eventually bit by bit it got better. To me it feels like weight has been lifted since getting my resignation letter. I am not a member not even of the record anymore. I don't live in Utah or anywhere with a high lds population my thoughts would probably be very different if I was in Provo Utah or going to BYU or was employed by the lds church. I have resigned 7 years ago and have not regretted it.
For me, I have been involved in litigation against family for 15+ years. Since they are all TBM's, they view being a member as a character asset. I believe it has been advantageous to me when grilled in depositions and on the witness stand, that I can say, "Yes...I am a member of the church." Once, their follow up question was, "You may be a member, are you still an active practicing member?" I responded with, "I was active for 40 years. How many more years of practice do you think I need?"
Whenever this litigation concludes I'll be submitting my letter of resignation the next day. I have doubts I will ever see that day though in my lifetime.
Jaxson Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For me, I have been involved in litigation against > family for 15+ years. Since they are all TBM's, > they view being a member as a character asset. I > believe it has been advantageous to me when > grilled in depositions and on the witness stand, > that I can say, "Yes...I am a member of the > church." Once, their follow up question was, "You > may be a member, are you still an active > practicing member?" I responded with, "I was > active for 40 years. How many more years of > practice do you think I need?" > > Whenever this litigation concludes I'll be > submitting my letter of resignation the next day. > I have doubts I will ever see that day though in > my lifetime.
Very creative, but pathetic, excuse. You forgot to mention the next follow-up question. "If you are not still active (and presumably do not still believe in Mormonism) why do you continue as a member? To promote your character? Perhaps your "character" would be better served if you stated that since you no longer believe, you felt a moral obligation to distance yourself from Mormonism.
(Perhaps you *do* need more "practice" after all.)
A) I can’t abide the knowledge that by doing so, it would give my one TBM child the opportunity to dead-dunk my raggedy dead ass and then blubber about it at F&TM,
B) If there’s ever a tithing refund, or a dividing up of the $110 billion dollar Jesus rainy day fund, it might only be for current members!!
I don't need to judge you, you have judged yourself quite adequately. You get the award for the lamest excuse on this thread. Now, tell us what the real reason is.
I wanted you to grind your teeth! I wanted you to continue your progress towards your very own terrestrial glory. I wanted you to continue to stew in the broth of your inadequacies. I wanted people to pity you. I wanted you to be judged for not only what you say, how you say it, but why you say it.
Congratulations. You're an RfM superstar! And everybody wants to be you!
I did consult with a psychiatrist, just so I'd get my money's worth! Very perceptive of you!
She said, and I quote, "Who gives a fly fuck whether you 'resign' or not? Is the process described in your Book of Mormon? Is it described in that Doctrine & Governance Book (I didn't correct her, since that was hardly germane)? Is it in any other supposed Holy Book of mormonism (she's the one who got me started on not capitalizing 'mormon')?
When I responded that it (the resignation process) was the result of a cross-application to mormonism of a Supreme Court of the United States decision, she laughed and said that it was as made-up as any other aspect of mormonism.
When I mentioned that I'd heard that some people judged others as not having the 'balls' to resign, she said that some people thought it enlarged one's own balls by grandiosely judging others regarding matters that were of zero consequence to anyone else.
PS: I just called her. She says you have some issues with regard to, and I quote her, "an enfeebled sense of place and power, and issues with personal adjustment to being in last place."
Is she in the ballpark? It's okay, only one person can be in first place and the rest of us just have to adjust.
> She says you have some > issues with regard to, and I quote her, "an > enfeebled sense of place and power. . .
It truly is feeble and self-disenfranchised to attack people from the security of a fake nickname. A strong person would not feel the need to conceal his/her identity.
Almost grounds to disregard the poster altogether. . .
Lot's Wife Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > She says you have some > > issues with regard to, and I quote her, "an > > enfeebled sense of place and power. . . > > It truly is feeble and self-disenfranchised to > attack people from the security of a fake > nickname. A strong person would not feel the need > to conceal his/her identity. > > Almost grounds to disregard the poster altogether.
I appreciated everyone's comments. We don't live in Utah, have not gone to church in years and are generally not bothered by the cult. It would not be much of an issue with family. We haven't darkened the doorways of TSCC in years and there is not even a ounce of belief left.
I can't figure out why I hesitate legally finalizing with the requisite paperwork.
I think when it's time, if it ever comes, you'll just know. I was inactive for probably about five years before I officially resigned.
In my case, it was the Church's response to Proposition 8 that pushed me over the edge. I couldn't stand to have my name associated with them in any way and so I was outta there.
I was also at the point where I knew 100% that the organization was just not what it purported itself to be. There were no doubts, so that washed away any hesitation.
I imagine that everyone's point of being ready is an individual thing.
I live within a few minute's drive from the gates of Mordor. (Temple Square).
Most of my family were inactive for about 5 years also, before we resigned together.
My husband wanted to resign because of finding out the Book of Mormon and First Vision were lies.
Our youngest daughter resigned because she knew TSCC was a cult from the get-go. She's the one who took out her endowments and immediately afterward, in the Celestial Room, said:"Mom! This is an F.....g cult!
Our middle daughter decided to go to her bishop because she was so discouraged that she was still single. The bishop told her to keep paying tithing and she would meet the right man soon. She went back to her place, prayed about it and said that she needed to know NOW whether to go all in and be active or jettison the church altogether. The following morning, she came over to visit us, and we fessed up that we were ready to leave the church. She got her answer, so she left the church, and will never return to it.
Our son knew TSCC was all false, but he was waiting for the rest of us to catch up.
I'm one of the few who went inactive because of being very offended by some of the "ward" members. I had a lot of red flags, but after I read about the MMM, and visiting the site, that was what I needed to decide to resign.
Following the written instructions by Richard Packham here on RFM, I made resignation letters for all of us, we all signed them, and sent them to headquarters. There was no hassle, and within 2 weeks, we all received our resignation confirmation letters.
Our oldest daughter and son-in-law are still TBMs, but fortunately, they still want to associate with us and we have become closer than we were before we resigned.
Resignation isn't for everyone, but it turned out to be the best thing for us.
I was impressed with your family experience, particularly your youngest daughter. What a model of courage and integrity.
What your post confirms to me is that your last statement is false. Resignation *is* for everyone; that is, everyone who comes to the realization that Mormonism is a false and dangerous cult. Anything short of that is an excuse that, in one way or another, is a self-serving action against one's otherwise sound moral judgment.
I couldn't agree more. We rebelled against a religion that insisted there was only one way to live and that was according to LDS rules. It therefore makes sense that there is now only one way to live and that is according to your rules.
When my parents got divorced in 1964, I remember the other kids on our street not being able to come to my house to play ever again. I could go to theirs, but they could not come to mine. My mom was a whore and a harlot to all the LDS moms on our street.
When I graduated college in 1978, I worked for the local electric utility. My boss was an uber-TBM whose family owned a mortuary in Bountiful. I was certain I would be offered a full time job. I was invited into talk with my boss one afternoon. he asked me point blank if I was going to now go on a mission. I asked him back, "Why would I do that?" No job offer...... My dad's next door neighbor was this guy's boss. He asked me when I would be starting full time, and I told him I never even got an offer.... The very next day, who calls me with a job offer? I had already taken a job out of state, so I told him no.
So, be careful if publicly quitting for real would put your kids or yourself in harm's way. Sometimes it is just better to know you don't give a crap, have resigned in your heart, and just ignore them.
> So, be careful if publicly quitting for real would > put your kids or yourself in harm's way. > Sometimes it is just better to know you don't give > a crap, have resigned in your heart, and just > ignore them.
Nothing will put your kids or yourself in "harm's way" more than staying in a religious cult that you know is false. There are worse things than losing a job. For example, losing a kid. So, this is just another excuse.
No excuses Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There are worse things than > losing a job. For example, losing a kid. > So, this is just another excuse.
No it isn't. The hate you give could lead to losing a kid. You put a process that the Mormon Church put in place above Mormons that we love.
I mentally quit when I was 12 and did not become a Deacon. My dad told me if I was not going to live it, then don't do it. So I didn't.
I tried twice to go back but gave up totally in 1979 right after I turned 23. My wife, a Roman Catholic, and I started attending a Presbyterian Church when she got pregnant. The Catholic Priest told her she had married a devil, and would not baptize our baby after he was born. The Presbyterian pastor said no problem. Son was never Mormon, nor was my wife.
I formally resigned in 1991 or 1992, and was baptized as a Christian in the Presbyterian Church in late 1992.
And now to top it all off, my TBM brother says I am STILL listed on the rolls, and he gave me my member number to prove it. So I guess I was lied to by the BP and SP back in 1991/92.
I like to remain a member, and have missionaries come over. Eventually it comes to asking me about church, and then I get to ask them exactly what they look forward to in the celestial kingdom. I mean, is it eternal church meetings, temple sessions, polygamy, streets paved with gold?
I tell them I just like digging in the dirt and composting cow manure. The CK is just too clean for me.
Anyway, along with other topics, they leave not feeling so enthusiastic, and I don't see them for a few years.
As they are, I once was. As I am, they may become.
Evergreennotloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Are there any benefits to membership we should > consider before we pull the plug?
Only you know if there are.
Some people seem to like fraudulent friends in a built in network of conforming to rules and taking abuse.
Like others have said, unless you have family or other relationship issues that might hinge on you staying in the church, there’s not really any other drawback to resigning.
If you are going to BYU, you are probably going to lose your credits and get kicked out if you resign.
My only regret, sort of, is that resigning significantly decreases your chances of helping others get out of the church. Once you resign, your name disappears from the local ward and, therefore, the ward members will no longer try and activate you. A plus of resigning but you also lose opportunities to share the truth with members.
I studied my way out of the church and I kind of wish I hadn’t resigned so that I’d have more opportunities to talk to ward members about what I learned so that I could educate members from within the church and brought more out while I still had the chance.
Ex-CultMember Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Like others have said, unless you have family or > other relationship issues that might hinge on you > staying in the church, there’s not really any > other drawback to resigning.
Technically it isn't staying in the church. Not participating in any kind of group where you didn't sign something legally binding should be legally leaving the group.
The church in this regard is like a book club thinking they have control over you more than than just going and paying a due.