what does that look like in their minds? Is it strictly limited to the Second Amendment? Do they worry about the separation of powers, or that whole check and balances thing? I ask because next Wednesday (Jan. 6) will be a pivotal moment in US history, and may in fact signal the end of America as we know it. Thoughts?

I think a house divided against itself can stand. You just need more bailing wire and duct tape.

The constitution has been hanging by a thread for almost 250 years.

[To admin - this is 100% political, so deletion is expected]

They picture godless left-wingers and libruls rioting all over the country, because of course insurrection can only come from the librul side. It never occurs to them that the constitution can be endangered from the right, because as far as they are concerned, conservatives (their side) are the only true patriots.

As far as 1/6, it's much ado about nothing. There will be objections and debate in both the House and the Senate, after which they will vote (1 member, 1 vote; not by state or county). The House will affirm the Electoral College and, since both chambers must reject, the EC votes will stand. But FWIW, the Senate will also vote to affirm the EC. This is another MAGA dead end.

Pence himself is constitutionally permitted to do nothing but count what's in front of him. He's only an emcee, not any kind of decider.

Thank you, Mr. Palmer for picking up on that county vote canard. It is difficult to keep up with the MAGA crowd, whose latest flight of fancy is that Dear Leader won more counties and therefore should be king--ehr, I mean president.

You can't make this stuff up. Or more precisely, you can't make it up before the rabid right begins parading it around as if it were a secret codicil to the constitution known only to the Illuminati and perhaps a random librarian. Can you not imagine a hoary old Newt Gingrich clad in the garments of the priesthood coming forth from the Holy of Holies with the the Book of Deuteronomy lost for centuries but now, in God's mercy, revealed in the time of Trumpian travails?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2021 07:46AM by Lot's Wife.

I think many fear the constitution is hanging by a thread any time they lose an election...

According to the Desert News: “Utah Sen. Mitt Romney strongly opposes a plan other Republican lawmakers are backing to reject certification of the presidential election results, attempting to further delay an official win for President-elect Joe Biden.”

So it doesn’t look like he’s backing the White Horse prophecy. Even if they challenge the results, there’s a process in place for that. A lot of Trump supporters see this as a CCP coup that could end the republic as we know it. I’m not buying it, but I’m not in charge of insurrections either.

It takes about 3% of the population to actively support a revolution for one to occur. If 10% of those who believe Trump’s narrative go that way, there’s your numbers. That population strongly correlates with gun owners and preppers. So, in contrast to 2000 when their invisible friend was supposed to return, now there is cause for concern.

I keep rolling it around in my head. We’ve created a warrior state with millions of trained and/or brainwashed “patriots”. Combined with today’s intense anti-China rhetoric and the destabilizing effects of radical income inequality, we are sitting on a powder keg and Trump is playing with matches.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2021 01:04AM by bradley.

Two criticism and an amen.

First the amen. Your description of the Trump phenomenon is accurate.

Criticism the first. I'm not sure where you get the 3% rule. The actual rate of involvement could be substantially higher or substantially lower and depends in part on the nature of the society under threat. If the state is resilient and armed, you'd need more rebels; if the polity is weak relative to the organizational and martial skills of the discontents, you can have a revolution with far fewer. A military coup, for instance, can easily herald a revolution.

Criticism the second. In your initial paragraph you equate the White Horse with an act of preservation of the status quo. But the prophesies do not require that. The danger to the constitution can arise the way the Founders worried: through an unchecked executive. In that case the alliance between the president and the gun-tottin' dropouts is the knife poised above the constitutional fabric. That was the Mormon concern too: the secret combinations of BoM lore were the Masons and their leader Andrew Jackson, who is the closest thing to the populist Trump that the United States ever experienced.

Viewed in that light--the Mormons wanted the constitution to protect their rights as a minority--the White Horse prophecy was about an establishment lieutenant preventing the destruction of the state by untrammeled administrative power. In other words, Romney is setting himself up as exactly what the White Hourse figure was supposed to be.

This seems pretty clear.

https://www.newsweek.com/egregious-ploy-romney-other-gop-senators-slam-plan-challenge-electoral-votes-1558541

You might be interested ---

@SteveSchmidtSES posted yesterday an 8-tweet analysis spanning from 1854 into the future.
He has an exceptional mind and capacity for discerning the tectonic.

Especially on dismissing the political, and keeping a detached analysis, what is happening is fascinating.
Peels away all the genteel polish covering what we really are.

Yup. Clarity.

The GOP is dividing between the conservatives, meaning those who want to preserve the constitution, and the Peronistas may well split the party. It is truly a fight over the rights of the individual, which are grounded in the separation of powers and the system of checks-and-balances.

If the Republicans do split over this, as they really should, I hope the reorganization occurs fast since our government needs more than one viable party. Hopefully the anti-republican wing of the GOP gets spanked and either reforms itself as a truly conservative entity or retires to political and sentimental Appalachia.

The United States needs a Republican Party, a truly conservative one that wants to "conserve" the institutions that made the country great. That would bring out the strength of their tradition and compel the Dems to function practically and efficiently.

Put your Whig-hat on your head

If there's not a Mormon in line for the US office of President than you're not likely to hear very much about the White Horse (house) prophecy.

Smith was probably the worst predictable visionary anybody could ever bet on.

Best to maybe drop him like a bad habit, so fast and so hard it breaks and shatters into a million indistinguishable pieces!

Oh that's right, who? Who? Never heard of him..

"Fun Fact: In 1861, 11 U.S. Senators were expelled from the Senate for refusing to recognize the election of Abraham Lincoln."

"Favorite 2021 Singer" (in comments)

Never Never Never, Give Up!

Romney's gonna really end up beside himself today, tomorrow if not already, yester-year..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2021 05:10AM by josephssmmyth.

A deleted post suggested that people need to stand back and let Trump/Sullenberger land the stricken airship of state.

My belief is that Trump is the unbalanced mental patient trying to open the emergency exit at 35,000 feet.

I just wanted to get this POV some exposure.

Thank you.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A deleted post suggested that people need to stand
> back and let Trump/Sullenberger land the stricken
> airship of state.
>
> My belief is that Trump is the unbalanced mental
> patient trying to open the emergency exit at
> 35,000 feet.
>
> I just wanted to get this POV some exposure.
>
> Thank you.
AntiTrump stuff never gets reported here heh heh

Does protest too much, seem alive on many threads lately?

Arewehavingfunyet?

But there’s something out there. On the wing. Some... thing.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But there’s something out there. On the wing.
> Some... thing.

Coming in on a wing and a prayer.. MSGA!

MakingSegwaysGreatAgain

Re: Mitt Romney and the White Horse:

Everybody sees Mitt as the obvious choice for the White Knight from Utah. But remember that Utah has two senators. And pretty much everything Mitt wants to do is exactly counteracted by the other one.

So if a leader makes an exceptional claim, without evidence, and his followers believe him and then his minions demand an investigation of those claims because the leaders followers believe the claims, is that a sign of a religion or a cult?

Yes.

The Constitution has been increasingly irrelevant for quite some time. It's purpose was to put limits on government, but nobody wants that.

I mean, we all want a bigger stimulus check, free healthcare, free education, farm subsidies, help when our house burns or floods, and we want to bomb some Arabs without congressional approval, and many of us crave government jobs with big benefits and retirements.

Believe it or not, there was a time when such spending was vetoed because presidents could not find authorization in the Constitution.

https://www.hoover.org/research/unconstitutional-congress

The Constitution is neither divine nor etched in stone. As circumstances change the so does he Constitution. That's why we amend it from time to time. Then the amendment become integral parts of the Constitution.

We are in no way bound by what the original framers had in mind. Many of them had severe reservations themselves, right from the start. They superseded the Articles of Confederation precisely because that arrangement was too limited to be of much use.

I disagree that its purpose was to put limits on government.its purpose was to establish a framework for a stable government. Yes, the checks and balances thing was crucial, but in order for a society to function there must be a central government that can deal with political realities.

Stephen Moore? You are citing Stephen Moore, that illiterate self-promoter who doesn't know a thing about economics? The Club for Growth? The rare man whom even Trump couldn't push through a Republican Senate due to his incompetence?

You'd better be careful. After Trump leaves office both Stephen Moore and your beloved Scott Atlas may go gunning for your part-time job at the parking lot.

Build the wall! Around the parking lot!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2021 01:23AM by Lot's Wife.

But macaromney would love Stephen Moore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(writer)

"During a 2016 debate on the minimum wage, Moore stated, "I'm a radical on this. I'd get rid of a lot of these child labor laws. I want people starting to work at 11, 12."[38]"

Then there is also this

"Moore was married to Allison Moore until 2011.[71] In 2012, a Virginia court held Moore in contempt of court for failing to pay his ex-wife $300,000 in spousal support, child support and other obligations in his divorce settlement.[71] Moore did not respond to repeated court requests to make payments and failed to appear for a deposition before the court threatened to have him arrested and ordered him to sell his home to make the payments; the court revoked the order at Moore's request after he made a $217,000 payment.[81][33] In January 2018, the IRS obtained a tax lien against Moore for $75,328 in unpaid federal taxes, interest and penalties, alleging Moore had filed a "fraudulent" tax return in 2014"

This is the guy who in the Great Recession thought the Fed should raise interest rates.

Because Herbert Hoover was right!

Yes, he wantedto raise rates during the recession, and then cut them after the recovery.
If you read the section on statements and writings in the above link, it is remarkable how often he has been wrong.

I didn’t read your article butI am fully aware of Moore’s views and his inability to articulate their rationale. He and Kudlow—and that Navarro guy—live on a different economic planet.

It’s like watching Bollywood romances: strangely entertaining but not reason enough to subscribe to Netflix.

Navarro. Did you see yesterday he claimed that Inauguration Day could be delayed?
They really are the triumvirate of cluelessness.