You're in the middle of a coup attempt. Good luck :-/

Thank you, Soft Machine.

Your feelings and words are very much appreciated.

Thank you, Tom in Paris. It is a coup attempt.

We have been in the middle of a coup attempt since the election. This latest manifestation is the direct of result of inflammatory speeches from Trump and his enablers. It is an assault on the democratic process based on nothing but his hurt feelings at losing.

YES

Thank you Tom in Paris. This is beyond scary and unsettling.

Thanks.

Domestic terrorists storming the capitol and staging a coup just because the sitting "president" is a sore loser; why do we have to live in interesting times?

Note to self: Never elect a reality TV mobster with an insatiable ego and need for revenge. We might actually get a smart one who succeeds next time.

It will take many, many years to reintegrate the lotus eaters into the polity. The problem is much bigger than Trump.

Thank you, Tom in Paris. I believe that this is, in some ways, the worst day in America that I have witnessed in my 63 years.

Lumberjack Wrote:
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> Thank you, Tom in Paris. I believe that this is,
> in some ways, the worst day in America that I have
> witnessed in my 63 years.

Yes, absolutely yes.

Yes. In my 71 years. The worst day for America. Can only hope it is awake up call.

I haven't been alive half as long as you have, but I agree today is an absolute horror show.

Tom in Paris, how is this being covered in your news? I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime.

I've seen it a bunch of times, just never in a First World country.

The main reaction is shock because, although we'll now say the signs were there (and they were), most people hoped it wouldn't come to this and are in total dismay, in both the UK and French media.

If those Pro-Trump thugs were BLM protesters doing the exact same thing, they would have been tear gassesd, beaten, bitten by dogs, pepper sprayed, some shot, handcuffed and hauled away by the truckloads a while ago.

Absolutely correct.

Yup. That has to be said.

There are three levels of police treatment.

Top: the majority, including right-wing thugs

Middle: Leftish protestors like BLM

Bottom: People of color, especially men

You can't run a stable government like this, nor a humane one.

Thank you Soft Machine. Just listening to the grisly details on NPR is horrifying (and we don't know how many people have been shot yet).

At the risk of getting this post deleted I will say this: It was my now 80-year-old mother who told me after hearing Trump's first televised political speech back in 2015: "He really sounds like Adolf Hitler." Sadly, he's turning out to be acting in the same way.

I had a neighbor in Idaho who was a kid during World War II. For context, she was a sweet old lady who immigrated to the US from Germany (she wasn't old enough to join the Hitler youth, let alone take part in Nazi atrocities). One of the things she said about the war was that "We (the Germans) should have fought back against Hitler." I can't argue against the claim that Trump and Hitler are too similar for comfort.

He needs to be removed from office and tried for his crimes. I don't want to tell kids in the future that we should have done more to stop Trump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 04:51PM by ookami.

The United States has endured many things in its more than 200 years. Four years of Trump ranks right up there with the worst. He should be under arrest for incitement to sedition.

Thank you, Soft Machine. This is absolutely surreal.

I'm watching this unfold from my home in Canada, a home that has never before felt so much like a sanctuary. Tom said it best, the hearts of people all over the world are with the American people. This is horrifying and frightening, and I am fervently hoping for the safety of all of you at RFM, take care of yourselves.

What looking in said.

Seeing this unfolding on TV actually made me cry.

I'd heard the rumblings but never thought it could really happen.

Shocking.

Scary.

Sad.

I'm so sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 04:58PM by Nightingale.

Thank you, Nightingale.

It means a lot that we know we have your support, and Canadian support, and support from Europe (Hi, Tom!), in this completely unprecedented time for us in the USA.

As I type this, there are live-cast "bangs" and "smoke" on the ground in DC.

Thank you so much for your support!!

Always, Tevai.

Thank you, Tom. It is indeed shocking. The Republican mayor of Maryland has condemned the actions of the crowd, and is sending in the Maryland State Police to assist LEOs in the district. He has also activated the Maryland National Guard. I understand that Virginia is sending their state police officers as well.

I will be so glad when our Lunatic-in-Chief is gone, and we hopefully have some sense of order again.

It's tragic to see the decline of a once great political party.

Thank you, this is surreal. I never thought I would see this in my life.

This from a friend in Italy:

"La marcia su Roma"

She's right. This is definitely Mussolini stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 04:51PM by Lot's Wife.

I have heard similar comparisons for a long while now, from folks who know their history or even lived through it. Scary stuff. Somebody said today that democracy is fragile. We can see how true that can be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 06:47PM by Nightingale.

Yes. I've said many times on this board that democracies frequently throw their liberty on the bonfires of tyranny. I refrain from using the word "fascism" both because it applies to 1930s Italy more than 1920s and because it is so emotive, but the Italian precedent is apt. But what has happened over the last few years is very much like the 1922-1924 period of Italian history, also like Germany in 1930-1932.

This is how it happens. The March on Rome, the burning of the Reichstag. This is how democracies die.

My mom used to tell me, "Don't think it can't happen again. It can."

You must be appalled. The rule of law picked a really bad time to break down. Orange Caesar is backed by a very large mob. I don’t expect “the thin blue line” to try very hard to contain it because they are Trump supporters. Ironic, isn’t it?

Not sure exactly how you mean that, but,

Many people are able to leave their "self" out of it and uphold the constitution when it comes down to it. The choice was clear today. Giving into thugs attempting to tear apart the democracy, or restoring order, keeping people safe, supporting due process.

Reports indicate that the House will go back into session in an interior chamber (reportedly the House Ways and Means Committee room, which is quite large.)

Don’t cry for me North Argentina.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don’t cry for me North Argentina.

Do you really mean this?

That the USA is akin to Argentina in the Peron era?

I sure as hell believe that. This is how democracies are overtaken by populist rebellions. The story is much the same for Mussolini, Hitler, Lenin, and Peron.

If you know history, this is a repetitive story.




ETA: "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2337757,2337788#msg-2337788


The politics of populist revolutions:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2317010,2319778#msg-2319778


Peronistas:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2354056,2354241#msg-2354241



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 05:29PM by Lot's Wife.

Yes. Peronistas. Trumpists. The Descamizados/Proud Boys. This is how it starts.

Trump told the rioters to go home and then followed with the usual "election was stolen" rhetoric---the rioters got the message. See anyone going home?

He did tell them to go home...right after he repeated his Goebbels-like lie that he was cheated. offered his sympathy to the mob, and failed to condemn their actions.

And said "I love you" and "you're so special".

Appalling. Not surprising.

One day this will be like Germany and World War Two.

1941: Everybody loves Hitler

1948: Everybody was in the resistance (except for those who moved to Paraguay)

In 20 years 90% of Americans will insist they never supported Trump's attempted coup.

Reported on CNN. To his followers trump said ,"“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away," he tweeted.

Translates to "You made me do it." Blame the victim-- even if you have to invent the crime.

Interestingly CNN also reported that Ivanka tweeted calling them patriots when it was starting and then took that down a bit later. Sorry Ivanka but America has decided to stick with the Kardashians as their royal family.

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're in the middle of a coup attempt. Good luck
> :-/

Towards the end, in fact.

I am grateful to be an American in Germany. Here, people understand leaders like Trump. :(

See my reply to blindguy above for an idea on the German understanding of Trump.

That is also my perception. I just hope we survive

Kind thoughts and a friendly hug from Australia in these distressing times. Stay strong, you will survive. Covid and the orange man will eventually be nothing more than bad memories.

The counting will resume tonight, and the capitol building has been secured. Police from D.C., Maryland, and Virginia have been called in to quell the insurrection. The horror is that one woman was shot and killed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsD8ZqY1rps

Former Sergeant at Arms: "There was a freaking failure of capitol law enforcement"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBLgH3PAeI

>>Van Jones: US Capitol riot is treason and rebellion. Period.

I've had anxiety dreams for weeks--I feared this could happen. I was a college student in So Cal in the late 1960s. I've been trying to remember if I ever felt like I do now. I don't think so.

Thanks for the condolences, Tom and all of you who've watched the disintegration of our constitutional norms.

And what did you think of that Captain Moroni guy in DC? Kind of embarrassing for church leaders I hope/

The Captain Moroni guy (Mike Lee) had the wrong metaphor. The Gadianton Robbers would have been more on point. I was a little fuzzy on what they were claimed to have done, but Wikipedia has an overview. Yeah, I know, it's fiction. Still, the shoe fits.

Thanks Tom. I've never seen anything like this, and I remember the sixties, and lived in a couple of military dictatorships. This is very troubling.

6:34 MST, Mike Lee made an unequivocal speech against the objections against the slates of electors. Better late than never.

Having supported and encouraged this debacle, Lee, Rawley, McConnell, the others are now pretending that they are law-and-order constitutionalists. They are not, and we should not forget what they have done.

They are traitors, as are a good many of their fellow travelers. It's time for the crows to roost.

Thought Cory Booker's speech was apt and passionate. Essentially an assault on America not under a foreign flag but under the flag of a man, the president.

A lot of quislings.

Tom,

Just writing to say how much I value your presence on this board. Your judgment and warmth are always apparent.

Thanks, man. We will get past this horror, I hope. It's a mass hysteria.

The U.S. is still getting over:

Viet Nam

racial bigotry, slavery, & the 'Civil' war

Watergate

Voter Suppression