It’s times like these that try men’s souls. Maybe it’s good that Mormonism has already tried mine. I’ve seen the good in America. That will never go away. I’m sure after this is all over, we will be in a much better place. The fall of Babylon is not the fall of America because they are two different things.

Today is a sad day for the America I grew up in. The worry is in how it will end. I think it will end in a better America for my grandchildren. So, rather than lament the end of the America that I knew, I have decided to rejoice in the new America being born. Although it isn’t much fun pushing this baby out, it will be worth it.

It is my hope that there is a larger group of law abiding Americans who will be moved by the ugliness of this day in Washington DC to teach their children the importance of democracy and the devastating outcomes of mob rule.

My heart goes out to the woman who was shot and killed today, and her family, in a building that symbolizes all around the world a government of high ideals and safe transferring of governmental representation.

We have a big fucking problem when someone removes the American flag in The Capitol and puts a Trump flag in its place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 10:08PM by Beth.

Our politicians have long used fallacious appeals to fear to garner support. People have bought into it and are acting accordingly. It's a tactic that works for them. They're not going to give it up any time soon.

Meanwhile 360,946 DEAD from COVID-19. Vaccines aren't getting into arms, and I'm like WTF?

It's not that hard to give shots! People give themselves shots EVERY DAY!

Train up 20-30 people at each facility that will be giving the shots. Five people handle paperwork and schedule the second shot. Five to 10 people prepare the syringes. Five people give the shots. Five people supervise folks for adverse reactions. The only problem is having space and an LPN or RN keep an eye on people after they've had their shot. Give them a cup of orange juice and a fucking cookie.

But, no. We have to have these seditious bastards appropriately toting the confederate battle flag as they try to overturn an election.

Man, fuck these people. I do *NOT WANT* to understand them. I understand them just fine. They are dangerous. And the FBI is going to be so far up their asses and their families' asses and their friends' asses. FBI will be hiring, yaw!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 11:13PM by Beth.

The authorities screwed up massively. How exactly do the security forces lose control of the Capitol for heaven's sake?

I hope this isn't a result of the police's affinity for right-wing totalitarians. I pray that isn't the case. But heads should roll for the abject organizational failure that manifested today.

I doubt it [ETA I doubt it was due to any affinity with strongmen]. They should have treated it like the Super Bowl. I don't know what failed here.

I'm glad that the Capitol police protected the people doing the people's business once the traitors breached the building.

I'm surprised they cleared it so fast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 11:26PM by Beth.

There should have been a very large number of arrests. Those traitors were treated with respect.

Traitors are not respectable.

Not enough law enforcement to arrest them.

It never stopped the police and the national guard when BLM was marching.

That there were insufficient forces at the Capitol is an astounding failure. Can you imagine the lessons other countries have learned about American security procedures?

Right, but this is different.

There were thousands of people on the steps. I don't know how many got inside.

You have to protect the Vice President, House Speaker, and so on or Democracy *really* fails.

Beth, the size of the demonstration was anticipated. This was no secret; and when Trump spoke to them, the scale of the crowds was obvious. The most basic responsibility of security forces is to get this right.

There is no excuse for this failure.

I'm not arguing with you. I said they should have treated today like the Super Bowl. The Secret Service sets up security for that.

I'm telling you that we are very, very lucky the police who were there kept their cool.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 11:39PM by Beth.

Agreed. But there should be arrests and prison sentences.

You and I both know this would have ended differently if the people who invaded the Capitol had been black.

Yes. And I think the charge is trespassing for most. Not kidding.

BUT

THE FBI WILL BE UP IN ALLLLLLL THEIR ASSES

AND THEIR FAMILIES'

AND THEIR FRIENDS'


Maybe that's what changes things. Every single person is going to get a visit.

Several of the scumbags storming the capitol were identified as neo-Nazis, so there might be some hope that the Feds will get involved.

I wouldn't hold my breath, though, given that a certain someone in the executive branch isn't willing to give the scum so much as a "don't do it again!"

Oh no - the FBI will be visiting every. single. person who stormed that place.

Hoping that you're right, Beth.

What they did is akin to someone trying to jump the fence at the White House.

They will get visits.

Other countries? Yeah - this is Putin's wet dream.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How exactly do the security forces lose control...?
>

Something that is never had can never be lost. They figured the precedent might distract them down the block. He probably had a lot of insecurity there, him always walking loudly and carrying a small stICK and all. Read: ill-planning is planning too: to fail!

> ... heads should roll...
>

There's one rolling down the hill now. And it's rolling under hiszone bus. I roll

over it

That's why it's called the fbi (friends butT, inspectors) lol

The bad news is that the vaccine doesn't stop you transmitting it.

If that is the case, it won't even stop the lockdowns.

Once the vaccine produces immunity, the vaccinated person cannot infect others.

No TBM Vaccine

There is no surprise here. Trump is the man he was in the 1980s, the 2000s; that this sort of denouement was in the works has been clear since his election. That is why some of us, those with a basic understanding of political history, have always feared and the man and detested the nihilistic movement he leads.

The man and movement are in no way conservative. They are populists and totalitarians. They bear no relation to what the GOP once was: an honorable party.

Wake up, America. If you elect a malevolent sociopath, this is what you get. If you are hoodwinked into believing he is a great leader, you should be ashamed of your political and ethical ignorance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2021 11:33PM by Lot's Wife.

Your last phrase, Lot's Wife, is the most masterful summary of what I think too.

"Wake up, America. If you elect a malevolent sociopath, this is what you get. If you are hoodwinked into believing he is a great leader, you should be ashamed of your political and ethical ignorance."

Indeed.

Tom in Paris

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no surprise here. Trump is the man he
> was in the 1980s

Is he? The Trump I remember back then was actually a bit different. Yes, he was still a loudmouth, and had awful hair, but in other ways he was different.

For one, his mother was still alive back and I believe she was a stabilizing influence on him. For another, he was actually a kind of style icon for some people. It sounds weird now, and I was never into his "style", but I remember this well. He used to appear in gossip columns and glossy magazines. Even his relationships and marriages were viewed in a different light - some women seemed genuinely attracted to him. And lastly, he was a New York Democrat back then! Many people forget that. Sure, he was associated with wealth, Yuppie types and that part of right wing politics, but he wasn't associated with far right identitarian politics and "Rednecks". His image was more cosmopolitan, and even sophisticated in some senses.

In "American Psycho" (written in the late eighties, published ?1990), the main character Patrick Bateman idolizes Trump. Trump is there as a template for the cold-blooded businessman, but more importantly as someone whose style Bateman looks up to and thinks is sophisticated. Bateman is shallow, like Trump, but he is also well groomed and dates beautiful women on a regular basis. (Modern Trump is badly groomed and few women want to go near him.)

Trump never turns up in the book but he's always there in the background:

"My priorities before Christmas include the following: (1) to get an eight o’clock reservation on a Friday night at Dorsia with Courtney, (2) to get myself invited to the Trump Christmas Party aboard their yacht"

Or

"He’s brought with him an article clipping and asks Bateman, 'Where do you think Donald Trump thinks the best pizza in Manhattan is served?'"

Contrast this with now. Trump is no longer seen as a brash young New York cosmopolitan, but an old fool. He has lost his youthful looks, moved to another party, and some people think he's senile (not the only politician to be accused of that recently). If you see an interview with DJT thirty years ago, he is actually a lot more coherent (even if you don't agree with him). Nowadays he is still loud and still an idiot but talks in riddles.

I don't see the same level of consistency as with Obama, Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter who seem to have been much the same their entire lives. (Whereas there are signs both Hilary Clinton and Dubya made some major changes in their lives - the first reinventing herself almost entirely and the second quitting drinking and settling down.)

I enjoyed your review!

I stopped paying attention to politics after Eisenhower’s two terms, so I can't comment on your accuracy, But I liked your flow of words.

Modern Life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lot's Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is no surprise here. Trump is the man he
> > was in the 1980s
>
> Is he? The Trump I remember back then was actually
> a bit different. Yes, he was still a loudmouth,
> and had awful hair, but in other ways he was
> different.
>

Yes, is he the man is was in the '80s. He didn't have the bully pulpit back then, but yeah. Same dude. I can speak to crap he pulled in Atlantic City. Yes, they removed Black people from the floor when he came to his casinos. My mother lives across the bay from what once was the Trump Castle, and I worked in the print shop in the basement while I was in college. He was a mobbed up racist crook then.

Remember the Central Park Five? The wrongly convicted and imprisoned kids? Trump ran full-page racist ads calling for the death penalty before the trials.

Dude has always been a racist fuck, just like his father.

> Remember the Central Park Five?

That is EXACTLY what I had in mind. He tried to get those kids killed. Did he try to make amends when they were proved innocent? Did he apologize?

Not at all. The man is racist scum and always has been.

Normally I do not put political posts on my own social media, but I've made an exception the past few days. There comes a point where if you don't speak up, you are condoning totalitarianism and anarchy.

Lottie, you know that I've stated before that I often mix my votes between Republicans and Democrats. The Trump presidency has given my a profound distrust of the Republican party that will take a long time to recover, if ever. I don't know if I can ever cast a vote that way again. And the thing is, the Republican party needs centrists like me.

You're right, Summer, and although I'm well to the left of most Americans (and not American), I think the USA needs something like the Republican Party (before it was taken over by tea) for its system to function. It needs a right wing which accepts reality and does not seek to divide.

I'm somewhat to the left of center, but historically I've been willing to consider the Republican point of view. I'm generally happy with politicians that don't veer too far right or left. And I think that conservatives serve a useful function when liberals get too full of themselves.

But as I've said, they've lost me. I can't condone a party that has lost all sense of reality, and whose leader has encouraged groups such as the Proud Boys.

summer,

I am close to where you are on the politics. In some ways I am probably more conservative than you are. But I have witnessed the GOP turn far to the right over the last four years--or, more accurately, not to the right but to totalitarian surrender. The party of constitutional conservatism, of states rights and individual liberty, has shed all those inhibitions in its progressive commitment to an incompetent tyrant.

For you the turning point, the time when you could no longer avoid politics, came a few days ago. For me, it came four years ago. Any good student of political history should have seen the writing was on the wall--and the need to denounce incipient disaster apparent--well before Trump's election.

Ken Burns reached the same conclusion at about the same time. This from his commencement address at Stanford in 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtnXbL2wwdM

Trump's character, his campaign, and the adoration his victims exhibited from the start fit a well-defined pattern. We've gone through it in Russia, in China, in Italy, in Germany, in Argentina. A lot of people are only seeing the parallels now, but there is nothing new in this particular disaster; and the moral duty to condemn it arose for some earlier than for others.

I was appalled when Trump was elected, and the last four years have been trying. However, I've kept my complaints to like-minded individuals. But since the Capitol hill riot, I've gone wide. I've listened to my conservative friends enough, now they can listen to me for once.

I understand. There are a lot of people making the same adjustment as you and for the same reason.

I would note only that there is a difference between an argument between people within a constitutional and civil framework and an argument with those who would destroy the constitutional and civil structure. The former are compatriots, the latter insurrectionists and rebels against the country; they are traitors.

These differences must be addressed directly. Otherwise Americans are Weimar Germans who pretend that the murderers of Stresemann are good people and couldn't possibly want to overturn a democratic system.

Yes, I agree.

"Losing the U.S. Capitol during a key electoral procedure to a modestly-sized crowd from a publicly-announced event is not a "failure." It was a decision. They were ordered to not do what they normally would've done. We need a full accounting of every single official involved."

TWO MORE WEEKS OF THIS NUTTER!

25th Amendment NOW

You are very kind to only call him a nutter, Beth. I have other words.

<3

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have decided to rejoice in the new America being born. >

He did say something about maga. Maybe he meant by leaving office.

Rejoice in every moment
As it is always passing

New America?

HELLo, give me the Old America!
I liked Her just fine.

> Although it isn’t much fun pushing this baby out, it will be worth it. >

Well, pull it! It's no fun either but give it a big yank... even if you're not a big yankee - kNOw Hanky Panky.

I think America is ready for law and order. She just doesn't know it or see it yet. Back to law and order, that is.

Hope everyone enjoyed Infrastructure Week!

try Jesus Opie as the great and mostly naughty ziller would say.

on a serious note. You can see what a narcissist can make people do. Why do you think I fear my father even being physically separated and I am in an unknown location. I know how dangerous NPD is. Got the entire family to target and scapegoat me. And I am talking the whooole extended family they turned against me and saw me as crazy. They now see me as crazy no matter what good deed I do. The power of slandering and gossip from a narcissist ruined my character and name probably forever.

Adam, off topic, but I just wanted to say that it is clear to me that you've made a tremendous amount of progress since you first started posting here. Many kudos to you for the work you have done.

Hear! Hear!

I agree, Adam. We can all see that you are doing do much better now. I want you to feel encouraged by that.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, Adam. We can all see that you are doing
> do much better now. I want you to feel encouraged
> by that.

Me, too.

It's too late.

If you think the Covid virus is bad, it isn't anything compared to the ignorant divisive white supremecist Trump virus. It doesn't harm the body, but kills the conscience, the spirit, the decency and the love.

I don't think most of you around the country have much to fear on the local level from the conspiracy rightists. They are all pretty much moving here to Idaho lol.

Is that private Idaho or public?

::rim shot::

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think most of you around the country have much to fear on the local level from the conspiracy rightists. They are all pretty much moving here to Idaho lol. >

That's Still TOO CLOSE.

In *other* news, a House member tested positive for COVID between the AZ and PA debates and sat out the latter.

Joint Session: Exposed

Cached during insurrection: Exposed

House Chamber: Exposed

Joint Session: Exposed

OH SNAP! THE COVID!

"We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
We got department stores and toilet paper
Got Styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer"

Mitt Romney is among several members of Congress who have been harassed by Trump supporters at Washington, D.C. area airports while traveling to and from their home states. As a result security at the airports will be tightened, with increased presence from the U.S. Air Marshalls, the Capitol Police, and other law enforcement support.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/travel-security-tightened-for-members-of-congress-after-harassment/ar-BB1cCaqa?ocid=msedgntp

This is important, too. There were right-wing politicians in the crowd that stormed the Capitol, apparently also NYFD officers and very possibly cops from various states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/01/09/investigating-police-rioters/

That underscores the difference between how BLM marchers in the summer were treated and the kid gloves with which the DC terrorists were handled. Anyone who thinks the police are ethnically blind is himself blind.

The rot runs deep.