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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:06PM

Watching The History Channel from time to time, I notice that some leaders from the past, who can’t accept defeat, will resort to retreat and silence. No apologies to anyone, no acknowledgement of any wrong doing on their part.
Our current fearless leader has been doing the same thing: Not a word. I wish he would say something: not anything half- hearted, but some real apologies and some sign of contrition.
Thankfully, authorities are finding and arresting some of the rioters and thugs that thought that having 15 minutes of fame was more important than lives or safety.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:13PM

Where is Pence hiding ?

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:39PM

People with his condition do not feel shame, remorse, regret, guilt, or the contrition you mention.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 03:56PM

Well, he's been banned from Twitter. Parler and other conservative sites are being deplatformed on the Google and Apple app stores, so there's that.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:35PM

YouTube is deplatforming and even canceling more and more conservatives every day.Shadowbanning is so 2020! Lots of Conservative Facebook accounts have been canceled. Bannon's "War Room" has fled to parts unknown. Wordpress kicked "The Conservative Treehouse" off. Reddit banned "The_Donald" (790K followers). Rush Limbaugh has been subjected to "reduced pages and other restrictions." And the Trump Election organization's email account was just axed.

The Purge has begun--Way to go, Silicon Valley!

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:46PM

It's almost as bad as kicking Kaepernick off his team!

Isn't capitalism grand?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:50PM

Or African American history and lives, or Native American history and lives.

It's only "cancel culture" if it is the mainstream deciding to correct the historical record. How dare people cancel the right's preferred cancellations?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 05:46PM

You also can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. When complete and utter falsehoods spark an anti-democratic insurrection, there is nothing wrong with squashing those utterances.

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Posted by: Henry B. Eyeroll ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 03:48PM

Parler was being used to coordinate future attacks on Washington. I guess you don't see that as a problem.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:02PM

This news just came on my phone: “ Rioters Were Hunting For Pence, Pelosi”
This is all so horrible; I don’t even want to watch or read the news anymore.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 05:48PM

I've seen conservatives liken Pelosi and other Democrats to "Satan's Spawn." Seriously, you may disagree strongly with her views, but what did she do to personally offend anyone?

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:10PM

I wonder if the Island of Elba could use a Trump tower and a few new inhabitants.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 04:52PM

The tyrant got off Elba. Surely St. Helena would be a more appropriate retirement destination.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 05:49PM

Palm Beach works for me. Let him play golf.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 05:55PM

Palm Beach might have something to say about that.




ETA: I wrote that tongue in cheek but almost immediately see it as a good point. Recall that Napoleon was sent to Elbe but it was too close to France and enabled him to launch a second assault on Europe. A place in the Indian Ocean might be safer.

But no, we won't descend to the level of those who would abrogate the man's constitutional liberties.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2021 05:57PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 08:56PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Let him TRY TO play golf. >


Without his phone!

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 09:07PM

Palm Beach doesn't want him.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 03:09PM

Truth.

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 06:03PM

I reject the idea that conservative voices are being "purged". What is happening is a reaction to extreme conservative views that in many instances are a cover for nonsensical conspiracy theories that fuel sedition under the great lie that "we are being robbed". If someone keeps falsely yelling fire every time a theatre is full he deserves to have his magaphone taken away. (and the a is deliberate).

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 06:27PM

It’s more like misbehaving toddlers being put in timeout.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 08:49PM

FBI raided the homes and offices of two Republican state legislators in Tennessee. One is the former House Speaker.

Forbes stated that companies should not hire former Trump administration officials. “Hire any of Trump’s fellow fabulists above, and Forbes will assume that everything your company or firm talks about is a lie," tweeted Randall Lane, Chief Content Officer.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 09, 2021 09:04PM

Actions have consequences. Enabling a demagogue for personal gain has consequences. Repeating lie after lie after lie has consequences. Fomenting violence has consequences.

Or maybe not.

The Reagan chickens have come home to roost. This is what happens when you don't denounce misinformation and straight out lies. You get a thick-skulled group of people who believe what they want to believe because they want to believe it, and there's nothing you can do about it. There are no hearts and minds to change.

Conservatives aren't the new lepers; Trump Republicans are the new Republican party, and there's nothing grand about it. Y'all kicked out your moderates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2021 09:05PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 02:59PM

That's right. Prosecuting traitors and the abettors of violence is communist. Western countries recognize traitors as the victims they truly are.

What's a little sedition, a little beating and killing, a little betrayal of constitution and society, among victims?

Pity the poor victims.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 05:40PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pity the poor victims.

Who needs enemies when you had friends like Epstein. Life is just a grand stage to abuse when you have influence and money.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 05:54PM

I'm objecting to the fallacious assertion that investigating an attempted coup d'etat is comparable to China's persecution of intellectuals during the Cultural Revolution.

What caffiend is doing yet again is claiming that he and his more active fellow travelers, the ones who invaded the Capitol, are victims. It's time to realize that the Trump movement is the apotheosis of self-pity. We are now to believe that those who beat police officers to death and sought to kill the vice president should be given a hug, a Slurpee, and a participation trophy.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 07:54PM


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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 03:36PM

We'll leave Portland's "CHAZ" out of this. How convenient.

Damage to the now-abandoned Hatfield Justice Center. Torched buildings. 51 killed across several cities, $2+B in damages in Minneapolis, Baltimore, NYC, Boston, Nashville, Kenosha, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, Seattle, etc.

BTW, the demonstration numbered at least 500K, some put it at over 1M.

"Not to worry," we're told. "They have insurance!"

https://babylonbee.com/news/ignorant-republicans-riot-and-dont-even-get-a-free-big-screen-tv-out-of-it

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 03:40PM

Honey, honey, honey.

If you storm the Capitol of the United States, you are going to jail. Period.

None of your links to satire sites or your straw man arguments will change that fact.

Sorry not sorry.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:23PM

And if you burn down a police station (with people inside, even), invade restaurants with chanting, throw bricks and commercial-grade fireworks at cops, vandalize and set fire to a Federal courthouse, torch people's homes and businesses, block highways, you'll be 1) given a pass 2) arrested and released without bail 3) bailed by Hollywood and partisan fatcats' "justice funds," and later have charges dropped.

Trumpsters should have studied leftists' MO more carefully.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:26PM

Oh, caffiend.

We're talking about the rioters who stormed the Capitol and murdered a Capitol Hill Police Officer, Brian David Sicknick, 42, by bashing him in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Feel free to start your own thread about whatever you'd like to discuss.

Distraction might work for your own personal Jesus, but it doesn't work on me.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 07:55PM


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 08:54PM

Just so I'm clear, you're okay with what happened in and around the Capitol last week? Because that's what I'm talking about, and twice you've thanked caffiend for replying to me.

I just want to understand, especially because I consider us friends.

You're okay with an armed mob storming the Capitol in an effort to overturn an election? A mob who threatened to physically harm or kill the Vice President, the Speaker and the Minority Leader of the Senate and did in fact kill a police officer?

That doesn't sound like you, cl2.

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Posted by: kite ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 03:16PM

I think cl2 was thanking caffiend for calling out hypocracy is all. Noone is saying they support a coup!

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 05:52PM

I think cl2 can speak for herself. No hypocrisy here.

cl2, I'm going to shoot you an email, and we can talk off-board if you like.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 06:06PM

kite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think cl2 was thanking caffiend for calling out
> hypocracy is all. Noone is saying they support
> a coup!


Name me any group of US citizens that has stormed the Capitol before this. You can't because no one has.

I am not talking about any other riot. I am talking about an assault on one of the branches of our Federal government. The Article I, ONE, branch of government. There's a reason Congress is the Article I branch of government - the Framers considered Congress the place where we, VIA OUR REPRESENTATIVES AND NOT THROUGH VIOLENCE, have our voices heard.

They came armed, and they were looking to hurt and kill people. Do you get that? They were trying to overturn the results of an election by physical violence that included the intent to kill people, AND THEY DID! They killed a cop for chrissakes!

So piss you you and your claim of hypocrisy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2021 06:07PM by Beth.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 08:56PM

kite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think cl2 was thanking caffiend for calling out
> hypocracy is all. Noone is saying they support
> a coup!

Except he isn't calling out hypocrisy. He's applying a partisan lens to distract from the topic being discussed. He's trying to make believe that the actions of the group being scrutinized are minimized by the bad actors on what he considers the "other side". He's crying about his side, because he thinks this is about political sides.

That isn't what this is about. Not everything is left vs. right. This is about how a leader has used lies and manipulative tactics in order to get a group of people to believe falsehoods and to prioritize what is suspected, what is believed and what is feared over what is real. And then act on that in a bad way. It's about this, because we in this group have a bit of history with lying, manipulative leaders. It is about this, because it's important to understand how these leaders work so that we don't fall for them like many have fallen for old Joe Smith. The OP is pointing out what she believes to be one of those characteristics to look out for. Beware the leader who can't admit to a mistake. Beware the leader who retreats into silence to watch the pot he set to boil calm down a bit before he makes his next move...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 10:24PM

It's time to dispense with the canard that Trump and his followers are "conservative." They want to "conserve" nothing; they want to overthrow elections and constitutions, to install a system of perpetual minority rule, to negate the rights of all sorts of people who are not like they.

Let's call a populist demagogue a populist demagogue. McCain was a conservative; Romney is a conservative; the people behind the Lincoln Project are conservatives. Trump is no conservative.

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Posted by: kite ( )
Date: January 11, 2021 03:09PM

I don't think I'm as conservative as you and definitely not as smart but you make good points.! I like your posts usually haha!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 03:41PM

Remarkable equivocation.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:04PM

This is a fallacious appeal to hypocrisy. It's "whataboutism".

People of all stripes support the right to peacefully protest, while simultaneously denouncing violence and thievery.

It takes a particularly corrupted morality, an abandonment of reason a lack of critical thinking to give in to appeals to fear, to prioritize what is asserted without evidence over what is real, and then participate or support a violent, murderous, seditious riot.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:30PM

That bible preaching must be aimed at those who were beating Mr. Sicknick while their co-conspirators flew the "blue lives matter" flags nearby, right?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:33PM

They were mostly peaceful. There were spectacular exceptions which should be punished roundly.

But it is silly of you to complain about some of them being bailed out by rich liberals. After all, Kyle Rittenhouse is out on bail provided by others; and the president is giving away free passes to convicted criminals right and left. It sounds therefore like liberals should have learned from right-wingers, for those free on bail must still go to trial while those given presidential pardons have no worries at all.

Then there is the question of treason, a series of laws designed to preserve the nation. Your attempts to conflate crimes against the state and the people with those of street hoods is unreasonable. In this and other threads you keep posting irrelevant stuff as it proves that low-rent looters are terrorists or that those looters are as bad as those who invaded the capital wanting to kidnap or kill government officials.

You are intelligent enough to know how stupid those attempts are.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:49PM

But they were, after all, on your side.

"If it weren't for double standards, liberals would have none at all."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 04:53PM

Perhaps you should reread what I wrote, for I said that the people you mentioned should be arrested and prosecuted. I have one standard for both.

Why don't you?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 06:12PM

"They were mostly peaceful."

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=2020+antifa+fires&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

The evidence says otherwise. If evidence is ignored or not made available or discounted, then incorrect conclusions are made. Perhaps these images didn't make PMSNBC?

"Kyle Rittenhouse is out on bail provided by others."

He stayed in solitary until $1M was raised. One reason police are quitting en masse is because they see malefactors out on the street the day after they've been arrested--repeatedly. Some DA's are eliminating cash bail (even for firearm offences)(relative to both political and simple criminal actions). Others are eliminating cash bail. Felonies are downgraded to misdemeanors, including domestic violence. And elsewhere, well-funded "justice advocates" provide bail money. Looters, "street hoods," political activists, arsonists, or violent terrorists with body armor, all too often they get a pass.

"Treason"--The charge is thrown around by both sides far too loosely. If anybody in the Trumpian event advocated the overthrow of the US Government, I am not aware of that and denounce it. The CHAZ compound, in a weird & amateurish way, advocated secession, which is treason. They have all the legitimacy of the "State of Jefferson."

I carefully read what you said, O Worthy Adversary. Please note what I did NOT say--I never excused or justified the Trumpian invaders. I did point out that the damage they caused pales in comparison to what the Blue-governance cities suffered in 2020. My complaint is that the malefactors of the Left face neither the vilification or the legal consequences which those on the right do.

https://babylonbee.com/news/electoral-college-successfully-overturned-buffalo-guy-selected-as-president

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 06:48PM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "They were mostly peaceful."
>
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=2020+antifa+fires&iar=im
> ages&iax=images&ia=images
>
> The evidence says otherwise. If evidence is
> ignored or not made available or discounted, then
> incorrect conclusions are made. Perhaps these
> images didn't make PMSNBC?

I stand by what I wrote. There were many tens of thousands of protestors and the violent ones numbered in the tens or hundreds. The protests were mostly peaceful.

As for the images you present, yes I have seen them. I repeat what I have said before: anecdote is not data. This is like that time you claimed looters were terrorists and, when challenged that your images showed looting and not terrorists, you replied with an image of a terrorist who was not a looter. In short, the only connection was in your mind.

This is almost as bad. You take some images and act as if they overrule the factual data. As a matter of propaganda, that is correct; as a matter of history, it is false.



>
> "Kyle Rittenhouse is out on bail provided by
> others."
>
> He stayed in solitary until $1M was raised. One
> reason police are quitting en masse is because
> they see malefactors out on the street the day
> after they've been arrested--repeatedly. Some DA's
> are eliminating cash bail (even for firearm
> offences)(relative to both political and simple
> criminal actions). Others are eliminating cash
> bail. Felonies are downgraded to misdemeanors,
> including domestic violence. And elsewhere,
> well-funded "justice advocates" provide bail
> money. Looters, "street hoods," political
> activists, arsonists, or violent terrorists with
> body armor, all too often they get a pass.

That supports my argument, not yours. You said liberals get off easily because they can raise bail. I noted that Rittenhouse was able to raise bail. You don't dispute that but rather change the topic to the merits of a bail system, implicitly suggesting that Rittenhouse should still be in jail.

The bottom line is you can't complain about liberals and bail when conservative murderers are getting off the same way and presidential pardons are obviating the need even for charging and prosecution. You control the state; you control the pardons.



-------------------
> "Treason"--The charge is thrown around by both
> sides far too loosely.

This is like the debate over conspiracy theories. The theory rises and falls on the basis of evidence. An invasion of Congress in which some participants want to kill Pelosi, the third in succession to the presidency; and others want to "hang Mike Pence," the second in the line of succession, is by definition treasonous.

Or did you not see the tapes of people chanting "Hang Mike Pence?"


If anybody in the Trumpian
> event advocated the overthrow of the US
> Government, I am not aware of that and denounce
> it.

Is it your opinion that attempting to kill the second and third people in line for the presidency is not treason?


---------------------
> The CHAZ compound, in a weird & amateurish
> way, advocated secession, which is treason. They
> have all the legitimacy of the "State of
> Jefferson."

Agreed.


-----------------
> I carefully read what you said, O Worthy
> Adversary. Please note what I did NOT say--I never
> excused or justified the Trumpian invaders. I did
> point out that the damage they caused pales in
> comparison to what the Blue-governance cities
> suffered in 2020. My complaint is that the
> malefactors of the Left face neither the
> vilification or the legal consequences which those
> on the right do.

Other than the black people who were killed and the peaceful protestors who were beaten or blinded, you may be right. I doubt it but do not know the details. I repeat that people who looted and attacked others should be punished.

So too the traitors who have betrayed their country and their constitution, especially when those malefactors are using the offices of the state to overthrow the constitution.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 07:13PM

>
> I carefully read what you said, O Worthy
> Adversary. Please note what I did NOT say--I never
> excused or justified the Trumpian invaders. I did
> point out that the damage they caused pales in
> comparison to what the Blue-governance cities
> suffered in 2020. My complaint is that the
> malefactors of the Left face neither the
> vilification or the legal consequences which those
> on the right do.

And neither did you condemn them. Instead you've continued with feebly attempting to divert from the topic at hand, crying for attention to your partisan woes. Such replies give the impression that you support those being scrutinized.

Regardless of your partisan bias, the actions employed by the invaders were clearly seditious and murderous and merit condemnation. (Notice that I didn't use the word "treasonous". I agree that it may be overapplied here, but the sedition is unquestionable.)

I condemn the crimes of both the left wing and the right. Why haven't you?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 07:16PM

I accept your distinction between treason and sedition. Perhaps I should stick with the latter.

Thanks.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 07:58PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 10, 2021 08:05PM

You could always express your own opinions if you want, even bring in your boyfriend.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 13, 2021 04:02PM

In my opinion this says it all

Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
"Fools", said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed
In the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered in the sound of silence



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2021 09:03PM by thedesertrat1.

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